US Congress' report on M4,a fading rifle?MY licensed to make
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Oh no lionnoisy!
The Israelis have developed a grenade that is even MORE advanced then STK's simple ABM!
The Refaim Advanced Infantry Weapon System, or "Advanced Infantry Rifle Grenade", manufactured by Israel Military Industries Ltd. (IMI), is an air-burst telescopic bullet trap rifle grenade that incorporates point detonation, time delay, and self-destruct functions. "Defense Update", an Israeli online publication, has some excellent information on the Refaim rifle grenade.
The following is what "Defense Update" has to say about the Refaim Advanced Infantry Weapon System/Advanced Infantry Rifle Grenade:...
"The fragmentation charge is optimized against infantry targets but can also penetrate vehicles and windows by utilizing a short time delay, thereby maximizing the effect behind or within cover. The system can also use an add-on grenade launcher such, such as the M-203. The airburst grenade uses a programmable time delay fuse which is set by the Multi-Purpose Rifle System (MPRS) fire control system designed by International Technologies Lasers (ITL).The MPRS measures the range to the target, displays a corrected aiming point for proper elevation necessary for accurate firing, and automatically sets the time delay fuse in the grenade to activate the bomb just before impact, at a preset altitude over the target. The fuze can also be set to explode at a preset delay after an impact, to penetrate a soft target (a window, for example).
IMI is also developing two new submunitions for the Refaim. The MPRS has additional C4I functions, including a digital compass and laser pointer which provide effective battlefield coordination, as well as full integration into tactical command and control systems. Information from the system can be displayed at the team and squad level, neighboring forces such as tanks or helicopters, or link up to higher command echelons.
At LIC 2004 IMI unveiled an inert Refaim grenade with an embedded camera and communications link, which can send a view of the target as it descends to strike. This low cost system provides a "bird's view" of the target. The image is collected by the receiving unit and displayed to the user as a static image of the target, with various zoom options. The second new Refaim grenade is equipped with CS irritating gas, and is designed to provide security force effective non lethal means, fired at a range of a few hundred meters, over five times the distance currently used by CS grenades and canisters."
According to "Defense Update", the Refaim rifle grenade was designed specifically for the advanced/modified version of the IMI Tavor TAR-21 rifle.
The Israeli advanced grenade can not only do airburst, it can incorporate point detonation, time delay, and self-destruct functions.
Wow!
Even better there is a variant of it that has embedded camera and communications links.
Wow...
They already running
STK still crawling...
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REFAIM Advanced Infantry Weapon System
Israel Military Industries (Israel)
The Refaim system was designed for the advanced version of the Tavor but is compatible with any rifle, enhancing the accuracy, lethality agility and flexibility of the weapon. The system offers line of sight and beyond line of sight activity, around the corner viewing and shooting capability and embedded training and mission rehearsal functions.Refaim uses an air-burst telescopic bullet trap rifle grenade with point detonation, time delay and self destruct functions. The fragmentation charge is optimized against infantry targets but can also penetrate vehicles and windows by utilizing a short time delay, thereby maximizing the effect behind or within cover. The system can also use an add-on grenade launcher such, such as the M-203. The airburst grenade uses a programmable time delay fuse which is set by the Multi-Purpose Rifle System (MPRS) fire control system designed by International Technologies Lasers (ITL).
The MPRS measures the range to the target, displays a corrected aiming point for proper elevation necessary for accurate firing, and automatically sets the time delay fuse in the grenade to activate the bomb just before impact, at a preset altitude over the target. The fuze can also be set to explode at a preset delay after an impact, to penetrate a soft target (a window, for example).
IMI is also developing two new submunitions for the Refaim. The MPRS has additional C4I functions, including a digital compass and laser pointer which provide effective battlefield coordination, as well as full integration into tactical command and control systems. Information from the system can be displayed at the team and squad level, neighboring forces such as tanks or helicopters, or link up to higher command echelons.
At LIC 2004 IMI unveiled an inert Refaim grenade with an embedded camera and communications link, which can send a view of the target as it descends to strike. This low cost system provides a "bird's view" of the target. The image is collected by the receiving unit and displayed to the user as a static image of the target, with various zoom options. The second new Refaim grenade is equipped with CS irritating gas, and is designed to provide security force effective non lethal means, fired at a range of a few hundred meters, over five times the distance currently used by CS grenades and canisters.
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Can SSW do all this in one unit?
Viper is based on the MPRS unit, developed for the IMI Refaim program. Viper weighs about one kilogram and is attached to the weapon over a standard Picatinny rail integrates an x1 optical (red dot) sight with data and symbols overlay, laser rangefinder, tilt and roll sensor (inclinometer) and a powerful processor. The basic Viper facilitates accurate aiming and firing of direct or indirect fire (airburst munitions for example) by the use of accurate range measuring and processing of aim-point ballistic compensation. Supporting bi-directional communications with the detonation fuse and automatic fuse programming of intelligent munitions, Viper facilitates various detonation modes including airburst, through window (detonation delay) or point impact. Scores of optional devices including dual wavelength laser pointer, digital compass and GPS, integrated video CCD camera, wireless data and video communications, communications relay, dual wavelength laser pointer, and more. Such add-ons enable "around the corner" viewing capability, using an eyepiece or PDA to project the line of sight view. Wireless datacom enables C4I features such as orientation and guidance towards targets, and video relay within the squad and further back.
Wait lionnoisy, it gets even better!
IMI took MPRS to new heights by creating a "net centric" infantry combat team. Under a joint program with IAI/MLM it is offering the Warrior Compact Targeter (WACT), which links members of a combat team with their leaders, team members and their rifle's sights over wireless communications. The system tracks every member via personal location reporting unit, to generate detailed situational awareness (SA) picture in real time. Commanders can watch every rifleman's sight or assess the situation over a 3D map, perform planning, real-time tracking or conduct after-action review.
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wah.. anyone other than me notice a trend today ? lionnoisy today especially active le.. he seems like he desperately wants to get his ass pwned badly today.
hmm, from a psychology point of view, is he suffering from abit of stockholm syndrome /pain-love complex ?
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Some inspirational posters for lionnoisy:
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
You see Lionnoisy, by your same argument that "just because other companies and websites have said they had ABS doesn't mean they really have", we can say the same of STK.
Naturally, we know that STK has a working ABS model, and we have no reason to doubt that other companies such as FN who has been in this business longer than we have, to not have a working ABS.
Hi MOD,
Can u tell me which company says in their official web site
or in official capacity,such as press conference,to confirm they
have ABS for grenade in dual calibre ,ie rifle cum grenade?
2.
we have no reason to doubt that other companies such as FN who has been in this business longer than we have, to not have a working ABS.
Time is not a sole essence in advancement of technology.
Chinese have discovered gun powder ,compass
and many others technology many year ago.
But the structures of society and many other factors
hinder the technology development.
What military products can Oz make,besides few types
of naval ships?Rifle?APC?LWH?Conversions of aeroplanes?
Talents,funding,basic technology,fighting spirits of all involved,
(including the supporters of gavaman) and sky is the limit
mind set dominate the outcome!!
There are too many companies and countries existed before 1965.
If u sit down and counts,u will be amazing how come we can
make:
----Ultimax 100,with the kind assistance of Stoner,
one of co --inventors or designers of M 16,stationing in SG
to by pass USA laws!!
----own 0.50 MG
----120 mm remote control mortar.No loader is needed!!
the rest u just look up ST products list.
3.STK SSW was chosen by Swedish Armed Force
as one of the 2 finalists,out of four contestants.The others are
Bofors and ATK.ATK? ya u are right,the maker of axed XM 29!!
How come others,like FN 2000, did not bid for this contract?
just to share with u that ST is producing few million rounds a year
of grenades ----for exports.Of course,u can imagne there are
some in arsenal in Madai!
welcome gifts from SAF for uninvited guests
welcome gifts from SAF for uninvited guests 2WARNING---DO NOT ENTER UNLESS INVITED!
@@@@@@@@@@@@
Hi Sg Ty
below by lion---the size of FCS in ST light weight
auto GL is similiar to IMI dual advanced rifle!
http://www.stengg.com/upload/804N32EFMOB81993CiC.pdf
FCS--350mm x 230 x 160 (LxW xH),6 kg with batteries.
below--SG TY;s photo of IMI
So wat is the size and weight of FCS?
pl note only 6 kg with full load!!
above--STK Squad Support Weapon to be delivered 2009
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/314943
Tx for your direct and relevant responses.I love it.
1.Have u noticed IMI still cannot escape from typical
design of dual calibre with ABS?FSC on the top of rifle.
The Korean recent OICW looks like the same format.
I think u know it will hard to keep the balance of the rifle.
Do u think their FCS is bigger than SG SSW.
Or i would say that SG SSW FCS is incorporated more
in the body of rifle,making it better for balancing.
2.u said
The Israeli advanced grenade can not only do airburst, it can incorporate point detonation, time delay, and self-destruct functions.
Wow!
Even better there is a variant of it that has embedded camera and communications links.
'point detonation, time delay, and self-destruct functions."
Very Good.SG can do self destruct.STK shall learn from IMI on the other 2.
Embedded camera-----ST gets it.Comm links,i am not sure.
Have i said ST is the first and the best?I dunt think so.
But ST can do a lot more than u think.
Sg Ty may be too busy to forget the
a video recce camera fired from a 40mm LV grenade launcher
dispayed in AA 2006.
light weight automatic grenade launcher and stacked launcher
40 mm parachute recce grenadehttp://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/208699
Aerospace 2006
mmm
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Eurosat08.htm
Below left is the STK SPARCS: a video recce camera fired from a 40mm LV grenade launcher
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pl forgive me to side track.
Just to show u ST and other SG guys can do much more
than u think.
EC 130B---part made by spore
manufactuer
people portal
40mm soldier recce parachute camera
40mm soldier recce parachute camera images
40mm soldier recce parachute camera spec
40mm soldier recce parachute camera featues
panoramic cam
panoramic cam more
panoramic cam featues
Fantail 5000 spec
Fantail 5000 features
skyblade 2 specnote in RSAF open house 06,Version 4 shown.
skyblade 2 features
vision ball monitor--sorry blur
vision ball features
welcome gifts from SAF for uninvited guests
welcome gifts from SAF for uninvited guests 2
11.09.2006
0.50 SLAP round?
SLAP spec
EBX--enhanced plast explosion
stacked ammo on remote controlled robot
4 barrels launcher
40 mm 3 shot grenade launcher
rebot vehicle---go any where.look at the huge leg
huge robot--what is the correct name
spec of robot vehicle
swimmer detection sys
jurong island
perimeter defence detecting
shot around the corner
added on 12.09.2006--pl note almost all shown in this thread are made by ST.
light weight automatic grenade launcher and stacked launcher
40 mm parachute recce grenade
future frigate
future convertte
advanced side lookinh sonar
mark 8 X--expendable mine destructor
skybalde 4 and another ver
fantail UAV
M113 upgrade solution
CROWS --crew remote operated weapons?--and light launcher
wireless LAN
LAN spec
2 remote recce tools.Balls and toy car.
fantail bottom view
less lethal weapon--gun
less lethal weapon specjjjj
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Enter Singapore with own risks!!
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turning to FN 2000 again.i cant find the FCS.
http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=161
u can say the USMC did not request for ABS,due to budget or other reasons.
or u can say FN did not show the FCS.In fact they get this FCS
in production stage.Can u guys tell me if FN really has
FCS for grenade cum refile dual calibre?
This is Mid 2008 news.Not old news.
where is FCS?
Mid 2008, FN Herstal introduced the SCAR™ assault rifles, chambered in either 5.56x45mm or 7.62x51mm caliber and the 40x46mm enhanced grenade launcher module, all developed under the USSOCOM SCAR program.
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http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=182
hi FN is a profits seeking company.
It dunt make sense that FN does not shout out when
it completed dual calibre with ABS grenade.
Anyway,there are not many companies can make this weapon.
There is no grenade ABS in its recent whole page advert in JDW.
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so what is this have got to do with M4 mr Lion
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Originally posted by tankfanatic:
so what is this have got to do with M4 mr Lion
it is a little bit side track.
i wan to show to Sg Ty that ST or STK can make small little things that
will work and no need go for upgrading all the times!!Like Collins Sub.
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There are two main points here:
1.Only Nammo and STK SSW are dual calibres with FCS for grenade.
Bofors and ATK XM 25 can shot grenades only,with FCS.
2.THe FCS of SG SSW is more intergrated into rifle and GL body.
U can compare the other 3 which are using a very tradition mode
of Add a FCS on rifle !!
from top---contestants of Swedish SSW
---http://www.atk.com/images_pagephotos/photo219.jpg----XM 25.
I assume ATK submitted XM 25 for biddding.
---Singapore SSW and Nammo SSW--Finalists of Swedish selection.
---Singapore SSW
---Bofors page 20 in http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2004arms/session3/arvidsson.pdf
BoforsCarl Gustaf 1996 air--bursting grenade rifle.
re Singapore STK SSW--
If u look carefully from the second image,u will see there is a small
gap bewteen the main body and optical tube and laser range finder.
If there is a gap,it is most likely to reduce the impact from explosion
to optical tube and range finder.
@@@@@
below FN 2000 said to has ABS grenade,but no officail proof after
so many appealing to Sg Ty and his buddies.
Dunt talk.Pl show me FN 2000 with a FCS.
above --recent Korean OICW.
mmmm
further reading
http://juni0r.orconhosting.net.nz/defencesolutions.html
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So wat is the size and weight of FCS?
pl note only 6 kg with full load!!
The IMI Tavor with the MPRS and ABM 40mm grenade launcher configuration is only 5.2kg, a good 0.8kg lighter then the SSW.
In addition, the Tavor is more flexible, being able to serve as a normal assault rifle in a pinch with a load of 30 5.56mm rounds that have greater range and stopping power then the SSW's small load of 20 5.7mm PDW caliber rounds.
below FN 2000 said to has ABS grenade,but no officail proof after
so many appealing to Sg Ty and his buddies.
Dunt talk.Pl show me FN 2000 with a FCS.
Yawn...
Since you so desperate to be pwned...
FN2000 with computerized fire control sight.The P-Rail version also accepts the IMI MRPS systems allowing it true modular flexibility in using smart munitions in addition to other features.
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lionnoisy oh lionnoisy.. will u ever learn ??
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The FN2000 with it's advanced computerized sight in use:
You got no idea what you are talking about. One type of the housing on top actually incorporates a rather sophisticated computer-controlled aiming system which 'tells' you exactly when to pull the trigger and under which elevation angle according to preset range of the target. (the two green diodes)
Does SSW have this feature?
Nope
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2.THe FCS of SG SSW is more intergrated into rifle and GL body.
U can compare the other 3 which are using a very tradition mode
of Add a FCS on rifle !!
This intergration is NOT a good thing, in an age of P-Rail and modular systems, I am surprised that STK is trying to push for a non-modular approach.
The SSW is unable to serve as a support weapon in the event that conventional rifle fire is needed, the kinetic module of the rifle is reduced to a small, 5.7mm PWD caliber weapon.
So this means that a person using an IMI Tavor with MPRS will be able to engage point targets up to 300m with his 5.56mm weapon while the SSW user is limited to only using his limited supply of grenades.
At the end of the day which one saves more costs for the military as well as being more useful? An intergrated, specialized Squad Support Weapon that can only serve in the role as a handheld grenade launcher with a puny PDW as a backup weapon or a P-Rail capable MPRS that you can slap onto any rifle that can accept a 40mm GL and that can serve as a normal rifle at the same time?
The math is simple.
SSW lose.
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What now lionnoisy? You going to claim that the info in guns.ru, one of the most comprehensive gun sites on the net is also mistaken?
The standard low-magnification combat scope, which has a back-up open sights on its top cover, may be replaced by any other scope on Piatiny-style mount, or with FN's proprietary computerized fire control module with laser rangefinder, for both the rifle and 40 mm grenade launcher.
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BTW, before lionnoisy tries to get all into how big and heavy he thinks it is, there's a picture of a lady using the FN2000... so maybe he's saying he's weaker then her lah...
I am quite amazed actually... ABM capable full sized assault rifle Tavor with MPRS only 5.2 kg he say it's too heavy... but SSW with puny PWD 6kg he thinks it's okay and light.
Maybe in his world the Israeli kilogram is different from the Singaporean kilogram.
I think his maths fail
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Embedded camera-----ST gets it.Comm links,i am not sure.
Have i said ST is the first and the best?I dunt think so.
But ST can do a lot more than u think.
Sg Ty may be too busy to forget the
a video recce camera fired from a 40mm LV grenade launcher
dispayed in AA 2006.
Old news lionnoisy.
You got trapped again.
I am well aware of the STK recce grenade, because it is a copy of the Israeli concept.
IMI beat STK to this by over 2 YEARS.
What was STK doing then?
LOL
Have i said ST is the first and the best?I dunt think so.
I think so, you tried to suggest better.
You suggested ST was the ONLY.
ONLY is far, far more extreme then first and best.
So how lionnoisy...
How come you said it was the Only one when it's not true?
Let me quote you again:
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
o
o NO OTHER RIFLE COME WITH AirBursting,even for crew served
weapons!!
So how lionnoisy, you worse then say ST first and best, you tried something even more ridiculus, you tried to suggest it was the ONLY innovator in this field when it is NOT, and worse, it is not even anywhere near being the first and the best.
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turning to FN 2000 again.i cant find the FCS.
http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=161
u can say the USMC did not request for ABS,due to budget or other reasons.
or u can say FN did not show the FCS.In fact they get this FCS
in production stage.Can u guys tell me if FN really has
FCS for grenade cum refile dual calibre?
This is Mid 2008 news.Not old news.
where is FCS?
Mid 2008, FN Herstal introduced the SCAR™ assault rifles, chambered in either 5.56x45mm or 7.62x51mm caliber and the 40x46mm enhanced grenade launcher module, all developed under the USSOCOM SCAR program.
HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHA
LIONNOISY YOU SELF-PWNED
THAT IS NOT AN FN2000!
Also you can't see the P-rail on top of the SCAR ah?
What can the P-rail accept?
Here's a clue:
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Basically what lionnoisy is doing now is trying to ignore the multiple media reports out there that confirm that the FN2000 is capable of firing air bursting munitions with a fire control computer.
Sorry lionnoisy.
You don't believe does not mean that we don't belive.
You can carry on being ignorant if that's what you want, but you're not helping your own case by trying to disbelief evidence that is right infront of your eyes.
You are only making yourself look stupid by trying to go down this line of argument.
Guess your perception of reality is really different from others.
All we can say is, if you choose to be stupid, nobody's really going to stop you.
Any more questions on if the FN2000 can use ABMs from you will not be entertained.
The FN2000 is capable of using ABMs, period.
Don't believe, your problem, but we all do and we'll contuine to accept it as an example of non STK technology in ABM munitions.
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LOL good one...How much you want to bet he will contuine to deny that the FN2000 can use ABMs despite the overwhelming evidence being given?
Frankly he's starting to becoming funny, he trapped himself in such a corner that he's now trying to argue that white is black and black is white.
