New Airsoft Thread
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Originally posted by dadeadman1337:
I start one airsoft thread, so long still no one give me good reply
how to give u good reply when is illegal to own this thing in sg -
dudes.
let me clarify. it is NOT ILLEGAL to airsoft in singapore. but you need a licence and permit and all that usual bullshit.
its technically possible but not feasible to have a legal ad-hoc airsofting as we know it like the ones 4justice can take part it.
police probably wont like it anyway
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Originally posted by sgstars:
dudes.
let me clarify. it is NOT ILLEGAL to airsoft in singapore. but you need a licence and permit and all that usual bullshit.
its technically possible but not feasible to have a legal ad-hoc airsofting as we know it like the ones 4justice can take part it.
police probably wont like it anyway
Last I checked, you can't own an airsoft pistol.
CID apparently classified it as a firearm... =/
Sembawang CC has an airsoft club though. I'm not sure if its still there, but you guys can check it out though. Again, you can't bring home your toy...
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Last I checked, you can't own an airsoft pistol.
CID apparently classified it as a firearm... =/
Sembawang CC has an airsoft club though. I'm not sure if its still there, but you guys can check it out though. Again, you can't bring home your toy...
really ?
i went for an airsoft class/package thing quite some time ago. it was held at a bombshelter in bishan.
the airsoft gun in particular was a compressed gas pistol. its heavy as hell(full metal) and shoots little BB bullets. the guy conducting the course was saying something about the pistols needed to be stored properly but i didnt pay much attention to it.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
I bought a couple of springers some time back. 2-3 pistols, an MP-5SD, and the TMP. But springers being springers, they died within 1000 shots ( i didn't really count).
One of them was a real beauty too, I believe it was a metallic Smith and Wesson SW1911 replica. But that died after something got jammed inside.
Oh well, I fully agree that it sucks to not to be able to own airsoft replicas.
Funny part is that, I own a recurve bow w/ carbon aluminium arrows, fully capable of really injuring someone badly, but I can't own an airsoft toy.
My springers actually have had loads more shots thru them and are going strong.
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Originally posted by sgstars:
really ?
i went for an airsoft class/package thing quite some time ago. it was held at a bombshelter in bishan.
the airsoft gun in particular was a compressed gas pistol. its heavy as hell(full metal) and shoots little BB bullets. the guy conducting the course was saying something about the pistols needed to be stored properly but i didnt pay much attention to it.
I think having to store something at a gun locker in a club defeats the purpose of ownership. Unless it is something thats too big to store at home practically, if you're a responsible owner why shouldn't you be allowed to bring it home and fondle it as and when you like?
Most airsoft pistols are GBB and use compressed gas. It's just what kind of gas it uses (134a, green aka propane, red, CO2 etc). It doesn't really need special care. I take it apart and clean it when I've got nothing to do, which is another advantage of storing it at home. The "special care" is really the valves on the spare mags, they need to be lubricated or they leak to high hell.
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ah..
i see.
having had the benefit it shooting with rifles, i still feel shooting the Pistol was disproportionately heavy for its size. and its feel of its weight and holding it is really very different.
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Airsoft Asia was at Bishan CC bomb shelter before they moved to sembawang cc.
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Anyway, if you cannot afford to emigrate to Hongkong, whats the point of affording airsoft in Singapore?
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
Anyway, if you cannot afford to emigrate to Hongkong, whats the point of affording airsoft in Singapore?
By the same token, if an airsoft enthusiast could afford to emigrate to HK, why not emigrate instead to a country that allows civilian ownership of real firearms?
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Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:
By the same token, if an airsoft enthusiast could afford to emigrate to HK, why not emigrate instead to a country that allows civilian ownership of real firearms?
i would do that. except i have to be more careful not to pop off some kids wielding airsoft at their friends at public carpark. -
Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:
By the same token, if an airsoft enthusiast could afford to emigrate to HK, why not emigrate instead to a country that allows civilian ownership of real firearms?Simple. because you can't shoot AT people or have a skirmish with a mil-sim scenario with real firearms. Using blanks is too iffy, and using the MILES system is too cumbersome. Airsoft allows the best compromise for people wanting a proper skirmish scenario where they can shoot AT and be SHOT AT without grevious injuries or death occuring from it.
also, cheaper to immigrate to HK than somewhere like USA for eg
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Originally posted by sgstars:
ah..
i see.
having had the benefit it shooting with rifles, i still feel shooting the Pistol was disproportionately heavy for its size. and its feel of its weight and holding it is really very different.
what sort of rifles? Have you handled a real steel handgun before?
Bear in mind that some modern rifles are actually disproportionately light for their size due to the use of modern composite plastics, and that if you've never held or fired a pistol much, it might just seem different. I've fired real steel M-16s before, as well as handled RIF G36s, AUGs, XM1014 shotguns and MP5Ks in skirmish scenarios, so I've learnt to adapt to using different firearms/RIFs. as for pistols, they actually take more skill to master so I've stuck to using a USP(strange choice really, big gun for a small girl) and gotten quite good with it thru usage and practice.
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Originally posted by 4Justice:
what sort of rifles? Have you handled a real steel handgun before?
Bear in mind that some modern rifles are actually disproportionately light for their size due to the use of modern composite plastics, and that if you've never held or fired a pistol much, it might just seem different. I've fired real steel M-16s before, as well as handled RIF G36s, AUGs, XM1014 shotguns and MP5Ks in skirmish scenarios, so I've learnt to adapt to using different firearms/RIFs. as for pistols, they actually take more skill to master so I've stuck to using a USP(strange choice really, big gun for a small girl) and gotten quite good with it thru usage and practice.
more than rifles.
i was pretty lucky. i got to move several missile dummies around, a GPMG, a saw, M-16 and the SAR21.
didnt get to try a real handgun though. but i love the M16's balance. its lighter than the SAR21 (but the scope and reliability makes it wayyy better than the M16 if it dosent fog up) . there's a point on the m16 where u can actually balance it on one finger. alot lighter to carry at that point. feels just right too. SAR21 feels too short for me.but in terms of shiokness (cant find a better word for it) when it comes to shooting them. of the three i tried, i would pick the SAW any day. its really nice to be shooting the SAW when prone.
ive actually seen a small sized fella fall back because of SAW recoil. bad posture i supposed but it gives a real nice feedback feel when u fire it.
the M16 foresight takes quite abit to familiarise with. not an easy foresight. but once u get the hang of it, it shoots like a dream.
GPMG = best sound award. at 400m across an open plain, there's nothing better than the roar of a GPMG covering/suppresive fire over your back.
i wish i can talk about more stuff but usual orbat restrictions. cant say any more about other stuff ive fired/shot off before.
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I'm honestly not surprised that people who've tried both the M16 and SAR21 liked the M16 better. And considering that it's an M16 we're talking about, that says a lot about the SAR21 (where I am, the M16 is universally disliked. It's shit compared to H&K designs, even the H&K redesign of the M16: HK416)
I've fired off a real steel GPMG as well, but for the sake of our discussion lets exclude bipod or tripod weapons. The SAW, which one did you fire? singapore uses the Ultimax so it would be that i presume, since SAW is actually a class of weapons, like SMG and ARs are. From what I've heard, the american M249 SAW is not exactly a class leader and the Ultimax is actually a superior design. Theres also the additional "awesomeness" factor of the Ultimax having a drum mag designed for it. Nothing sez "gangsta" like a drum mag
By the way I'm profficient with a M16. The sights are as simple as any other iron sights really, nothing much to familiarise if I might be honest. Indeed my training on the M16 was with the M16 S1 variant, so... 'nam style armalite sights are really about as basic as it gets
Sound-wise, I can only assume you haven't heard a M2 .50 let rip, or heard a minigun open up for that matter
. Have to also point out that GPMG once again, is a class of weapon, and the one used by SAF is the belgium designed FN MAG, manufactured locally (probably by CIS, then ST) under licence from FN. -
I prefer the M16. Its heavier but at least its heavy enough that the sprays dont push the nozzle up.
The last time I fired HKMP5 was on a boat. aiming at some floating ball ons.
The 1st 3 shot sprays sent the nozzle into the air. I was not prepared for the weapon to move upwards.
As explained by a shooting instructor. The HKMP5 is more suited to shoot movie style, the gun to be held parrarel from the ground from right to left or left to right dependintg on which hand is used.
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
I prefer the M16. Its heavier but at least its heavy enough that the sprays dont push the nozzle up.
The last time I fired HKMP5 was on a boat. aiming at some floating ball ons.
The 1st 3 shot sprays sent the nozzle into the air. I was not prepared for the weapon to move upwards.
As explained by a shooting instructor. The HKMP5 is more suited to shoot movie style, the gun to be held parrarel from the ground from right to left or left to right dependintg on which hand is used.
How did you hold it with ur off-hand? Under the barrel or half-gripping the magazine?
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Originally posted by 4Justice:
I'm honestly not surprised that people who've tried both the M16 and SAR21 liked the M16 better. And considering that it's an M16 we're talking about, that says a lot about the SAR21 (where I am, the M16 is universally disliked. It's shit compared to H&K designs, even the H&K redesign of the M16: HK416)
I've fired off a real steel GPMG as well, but for the sake of our discussion lets exclude bipod or tripod weapons. The SAW, which one did you fire? singapore uses the Ultimax so it would be that i presume, since SAW is actually a class of weapons, like SMG and ARs are. From what I've heard, the american M249 SAW is not exactly a class leader and the Ultimax is actually a superior design. Theres also the additional "awesomeness" factor of the Ultimax having a drum mag designed for it. Nothing sez "gangsta" like a drum mag
By the way I'm profficient with a M16. The sights are as simple as any other iron sights really, nothing much to familiarise if I might be honest. Indeed my training on the M16 was with the M16 S1 variant, so... 'nam style armalite sights are really about as basic as it gets
Sound-wise, I can only assume you haven't heard a M2 .50 let rip, or heard a minigun open up for that matter
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Have to also point out that GPMG once again, is a class of weapon,
and the one used by SAF is the belgium designed FN MAG,
manufactured locally (probably by CIS, then ST) under licence from
FN.i fired off the ultimax. i had the opportunity to fire both the mark Is and the mark IIIs. i must confess something though, i abused the mark III pretty badly and broke the carrying handle. tough love. drum mag or not, cant talk about it, orbat stuff i suppose.
oh i honestly had no idea about the GPMG being a class weapon. M2 / our local version the CIS made 0.5 ive heard but never fired. neither have i heard a mini gun either :( its a shame really.give the SAR21 some credit. in terms of balance, weight and comfort wise,i feel the M16 is way better. but the bloody M16 jams up very quickly ontop of the usual STANAG magazine issues. reliability-wise and maintainence wise, the SAR21 is far superior to the M16. i honesty cannot recall when i ever had to clear any jams on my SAR21 be it from blanks or live rounds.
and at any medium distance shoots (not going to mention figures because of orbat), it will outshoot the m16 (unless you got a 3X scope on it). any given day. if youve seen the accuracy figures for the M16 and the SAR21. its one helluva jump. and have i mentioned how great it is for shooting at night ? its really good at lowlight/no light conditions. once zeroed, the LED is killer.the m16 is next to useless at night. the tritium foretip dosent work very well.
but i concede something, mount a P-rail on the M16 and a 3X scope, and i'd say it will be a hard choice to pick between the SAR21 and the M16. really. the m16 is a really wonderful rifle. i love the charging handle of the M16 compared to the SAR21. absolutely wonderful thing. but its a little difficult to cock while prone or in tight situations.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
How did you hold it with ur off-hand? Under the barrel or half-gripping the magazine?
Left hand griping the underside of the barrel and right hand on the trigger, the butt resting on my right chest.I find it very weird gripping the magazine. And was not prepared when the barrell/nozzle flew off my hand upwards.
Airsoft HKIMP5 dont have such recoil. :D
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Originally posted by sgstars:
i fired off the ultimax. i had the opportunity to fire both the mark Is and the mark IIIs. i must confess something though, i abused the mark III pretty badly and broke the carrying handle. tough love. drum mag or not, cant talk about it, orbat stuff i suppose.
oh i honestly had no idea about the GPMG being a class weapon. M2 / our local version the CIS made 0.5 ive heard but never fired. neither have i heard a mini gun either :( its a shame really.give the SAR21 some credit. in terms of balance, weight and comfort wise,i feel the M16 is way better. but the bloody M16 jams up very quickly ontop of the usual STANAG magazine issues. reliability-wise and maintainence wise, the SAR21 is far superior to the M16. i honesty cannot recall when i ever had to clear any jams on my SAR21 be it from blanks or live rounds.
and at any medium distance shoots (not going to mention figures because of orbat), it will outshoot the m16 (unless you got a 3X scope on it). any given day. if youve seen the accuracy figures for the M16 and the SAR21. its one helluva jump. and have i mentioned how great it is for shooting at night ? its really good at lowlight/no light conditions. once zeroed, the LED is killer.the m16 is next to useless at night. the tritium foretip dosent work very well.
but i concede something, mount a P-rail on the M16 and a 3X scope, and i'd say it will be a hard choice to pick between the SAR21 and the M16. really. the m16 is a really wonderful rifle. i love the charging handle of the M16 compared to the SAR21. absolutely wonderful thing. but its a little difficult to cock while prone or in tight situations.
LOL! Correction, its SAF's usual STANAG issue. The ones available for civilians in the US are much more reliable than the ones we were issued with. I had 2 mags fark up on me during my day shoot... both half-feed or no-feed.
The M-16A3/A4s compared to the Sar-21 with P-rail, the Sar-21 wins hands down when you have red-dot sights / assault grip on it. Target acquisition with it is really very fast natural. I liked it.
Viciouskitty, not gripping the mag... ermm like half gripping the mag receptacle and hand-grip. Pull it in tight and apply slight down ward force using that grip when letting it rip. Just don't pull out the mag.... hehe.
let me see if i can find a youtube video of someone shooting like that. Basically the hold is so far in that its in contact with both the mag and the under barrle handgrip
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Viciouskitty, not gripping the mag... ermm like half gripping the mag receptacle and hand-grip. Pull it in tight and apply slight down ward force using that grip when letting it rip. Just don't pull the mag.... hehe.
You will have to show me.Anyway, its been donkey years since I touch a HKMP5, M16 & aGPMG mounted on a Coast Guard Boat (That mount is taller then I am, I had to stand on a crate to shoot that. Really malu then.)
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
I prefer the M16. Its heavier but at least its heavy enough that the sprays dont push the nozzle up.
The last time I fired HKMP5 was on a boat. aiming at some floating ball ons.
The 1st 3 shot sprays sent the nozzle into the air. I was not prepared for the weapon to move upwards.
As explained by a shooting instructor. The HKMP5 is more suited to shoot movie style, the gun to be held parrarel from the ground from right to left or left to right dependintg on which hand is used.
I doubt it is the weight of the weapon that keeps the muzzle from climbing. One thing about the M16 is that if you drew a line from the the muzzle to the chamber to the part where the stock rests on your shoulder, it is a complere straight line. On the MP5, it isn't. Hence the recoil is not absorbed horizontally backwards, but acts at an angle to the line of force your shoulder applies on the butt, resulting in climb. Same thing with the AK.
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Originally posted by sgstars:
i fired off the ultimax. i had the opportunity to fire both the mark Is and the mark IIIs. i must confess something though, i abused the mark III pretty badly and broke the carrying handle. tough love. drum mag or not, cant talk about it, orbat stuff i suppose.
oh i honestly had no idea about the GPMG being a class weapon. M2 / our local version the CIS made 0.5 ive heard but never fired. neither have i heard a mini gun either :( its a shame really.give the SAR21 some credit. in terms of balance, weight and comfort wise,i feel the M16 is way better. but the bloody M16 jams up very quickly ontop of the usual STANAG magazine issues. reliability-wise and maintainence wise, the SAR21 is far superior to the M16. i honesty cannot recall when i ever had to clear any jams on my SAR21 be it from blanks or live rounds.
and at any medium distance shoots (not going to mention figures because of orbat), it will outshoot the m16 (unless you got a 3X scope on it). any given day. if youve seen the accuracy figures for the M16 and the SAR21. its one helluva jump. and have i mentioned how great it is for shooting at night ? its really good at lowlight/no light conditions. once zeroed, the LED is killer.the m16 is next to useless at night. the tritium foretip dosent work very well.
but i concede something, mount a P-rail on the M16 and a 3X scope, and i'd say it will be a hard choice to pick between the SAR21 and the M16. really. the m16 is a really wonderful rifle. i love the charging handle of the M16 compared to the SAR21. absolutely wonderful thing. but its a little difficult to cock while prone or in tight situations.
GPMG stands for general purpose machine gun. There are a fair few brands of GPMGs around, the FN MAG being just one of them. Of course, the class got it's name from the FN MAG, where MAG in belgium-french means general purpose machinegun. However the class itself has existed at least since WW2, with the german MG34s and 42s being prime examples of this. In fact the MG42 still soldiers on as a GPMG in modern times as the updated MG3. Another GPMG is the M60, a 'nam era icon.
The CIS 50... hmm I'll go ask my cousin what it sounded like. He was in armoured infantry. A minigun is... well awesome. A GAU-8 avenger cannon, now that is the satan's own blowhorn. The sound it makes when it fires makes my hair stand on the end. If ever there was a sound that represented evil personified, that would be it.
SAR21... now... what credit can I give it? The M16 is far older a design that the SAR21, so by all logic it should be far superior. But it isn't. The SAR21 is not that revolutionary or even unique either. It essentially copied bits from the AUG, the FAMAS and most importantly, the Israeli Tavor. The resulting mishmash is mediocore at best. It's probably an injustice to say the M16 jams easily. I'd say its a gun that needs more maintenance, but thats about it. In any case, the HK variants of the armalite design are far more robust, so its not entirely a bad design, just sometimes let down by the manufacturing processes and materials that Colt uses.
Now, I have a great many RIFs with RDSes mounted on them. I know the SAR21's optic sight is not a RDS, and thus at night you either have to use it's laser, or whatever else it's got. A laser however, isn't tactical. I personally would take a M-16 with a RDS mounted over a SAR21 any day. I think it isnt fair to attribute the SAR21's greater accuracy over a long range due to it's built in optics, because the M16 would easily match up on that front with a set of optics as well, and the M16 is one gun where there is no shortage of accessories for it on the market! At night, a M16 with a RDS would be far superior to the SAR21 with LAD. Oh wait... I see you've admitted that as well...
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Originally posted by viciouskitty74:
Left hand griping the underside of the barrel and right hand on the trigger, the butt resting on my right chest.I find it very weird gripping the magazine. And was not prepared when the barrell/nozzle flew off my hand upwards.
Airsoft HKIMP5 dont have such recoil. :D
Actually, did you have to fire with a sling on?
Most LE forces that use the MP5, esp in the UK, do so with the weapon pushed forward against the sling, rather than pushed back against the shoulder. It helps counter the climb, but even then the MP5's weapon climb is much less compared to the AK's due to it's delayed roller lock-back system.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
LOL! Correction, its SAF's usual STANAG issue. The ones available for civilians in the US are much more reliable than the ones we were issued with. I had 2 mags fark up on me during my day shoot... both half-feed or no-feed.
The M-16A3/A4s compared to the Sar-21 with P-rail, the Sar-21 wins hands down when you have red-dot sights / assault grip on it. Target acquisition with it is really very fast natural. I liked it.
Viciouskitty, not gripping the mag... ermm like half gripping the mag receptacle and hand-grip. Pull it in tight and apply slight down ward force using that grip when letting it rip. Just don't pull out the mag.... hehe.
let me see if i can find a youtube video of someone shooting like that. Basically the hold is so far in that its in contact with both the mag and the under barrle handgrip
Lol SAF's STANAG issue. Why am I not surprised?
I think between a SAR21 with P-rail and RDS + vert grip and a M16 with the same, i'd pick the M16. Target aquisition with a MP5K with a RDS is even more natural u know?
As for the MP5 grip you're talking about, that's probably not the best way to hold it. Theres a reason why nowadays there is a MP5J variant with a full RIS foregrip, so that a vert grip could be mounted and prevent people from gripping the magwell.