SAR-21 on Popular Mechanics
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Something for us to be proud of... our home-grown rifle gets mentioned on Popular Mechanics along with the likes of the FN-SCAR and the XM-25.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4273222.html?page=3
"While the United States has repeatedly—and spectacularly—failed to replace the aging M-16, Singapore has been using a newer and possibly better-performing assault rifle since 1999. The SAR 21 replaced Singapore's licensed version of the M-16, and has gained a reputation among gun experts as one of the best “bullpup” assault rifles—where the action and magazine are behind the trigger—on the market. It has a smaller overall profile than the M-16, without sacrificing barrel length (the shorter the barrel, the less accuracy at longer ranges) and significantly more manageable recoil, due in part to the weapon's center of balance. The recoil tends to drive directly back against the firer, instead of pushing the barrel upwards.
All of this is useful in an assault rifle, but particularly for urban warfare, where more compact weapons are crucial to maneuvering indoors, and where close-range, fully-automatic fire is more common. The SAR 21 has a Kevlar cheek plate to deal with chamber explosions occurring next to the user's face, a regular safety issue for bullup weapons. It's also one of the few assault rifles in the world equipped with an integrated laser aiming device. " -
Cant see how the SAR 21 can offer any significant advantages over M 16. M 16 is still a good rifle although it has been around for almost 40 years.
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Originally posted by Sepecat:
Cant see how the SAR 21 can offer any significant advantages over M 16. M 16 is still a good rifle although it has been around for almost 40 years.
why cant the SAR-21 offer any significant advantage over the M-16? -
Originally posted by Sepecat:
Cant see how the SAR 21 can offer any significant advantages over M 16. M 16 is still a good rifle although it has been around for almost 40 years.
the article already stated the advantages over m-16
It has a smaller overall profile than the M-16, without sacrificing barrel length - thus preserving accuracy at longer ranges.
more manageable recoil, due in part to the weapon's center of balance. The recoil tends to drive directly back against the firer, instead of pushing the barrel upwards.
for urban warfare, where more compact weapons are better in maneuvering indoors, and where close-range, fully-automatic fire is more common. -
double post
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I still like my M-4.
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
I still like my M-4.
Hear hear!The SAR21 sucks in terms of reload and weight. Gimme back my M4!
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Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:
Hear hear!The SAR21 sucks in terms of reload and weight. Gimme back my M4!
I love my M-4. Compact, light and still fairly accurate, idiot-proof, easy to clean and it looks cool! -
Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:
Hear hear!The SAR21 sucks in terms of reload and weight. Gimme back my M4!
But I dare say it will have a lot more stopping power then your M4.Though the basic scope-LAD thing has to go, give us a P-rail style system.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
But I dare say it will have a lot more stopping power then your M4.Though the basic scope-LAD thing has to go, give us a P-rail style system.
Thats not the main concern of us "light" troops anyway since the main task is not assaulting objectives. -
Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
I love my M-4. Compact, light and still fairly accurate, idiot-proof, easy to clean and it looks cool!
Hi just to check with you guys, was the carbine previously used by the recce troopers, naval personnels, tankees etc the M4, CAR15 or other variants of the M16. To be honest, i have only seen the commandos with the Colt M4, not sure about other units.Thanks.
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Technically they should be using the SAR-21 lightweight carbine version, which was intended to replace the M4 for those who are using it... apparently some dude thought it was a "good" idea to issue the full size variant across the board...
But as with a lot of things advertised and marketed by ST, it never seems to get to the troops. How much of the stuff on their website or even army open house is stuff the regular guys who will be the bulk of those fighting the war actually use?
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Originally posted by foxtrout8:
Hi just to check with you guys, was the carbine previously used by the recce troopers, naval personnels, tankees etc the M4, CAR15 or other variants of the M16. To be honest, i have only seen the commandos with the Colt M4, not sure about other units.Thanks.
you mean 1st CDO ? .... that was the ancient CAR-15 lah ....
unless times have changed ....
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Originally posted by Fatum:
you mean 1st CDO ? .... that was the ancient CAR-15 lah ....
unless times have changed ....
I saw them displaying their fresh piping hot M4 from colt (the company stamp) 1 year ago at the career exhibition. -
Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:
Thats not the main concern of us "light" troops anyway since the main task is not assaulting objectives."light" troops? Who said SG is "light" troops? Main task is not assaulting objectives? Erm...do you know what you're talking about?
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Originally posted by 16/f/lonely:
I still like my M-4.
you'll like an m16 better than an m4 during ranges. haha
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Originally posted by airgrinder:
you'll like an m16 better than an m4 during ranges. haha
I don't go for range.The RSN still uses the M-4, where it is useful in confined spaces.
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Originally posted by airgrinder:
"light" troops? Who said SG is "light" troops? Main task is not assaulting objectives? Erm...do you know what you're talking about?
By Light troops I refer to lightly armed troops (which is the general description for that term). Mainly referring to the scouts/recon troops who carry less contact rates than regular infantry troops. We dun conduct assaults.Read carefully before assuming. I never said across the board that SAF consist entirely of lightly-armed troops.
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the article already stated the advantages over m-16
It has a smaller overall profile than the M-16, without sacrificing barrel length - thus preserving accuracy at longer ranges.
more manageable recoil, due in part to the weapon's center of balance. The recoil tends to drive directly back against the firer, instead of pushing the barrel upwards.
for urban warfare, where more compact weapons are better in maneuvering indoors, and where close-range, fully-automatic fire is more common.Read "significant" advantages. There are on teh other hand many downsides in the SAR 21 compared to M16.
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Originally posted by Sepecat:
Read "significant" advantages. There are on teh other hand many downsides in the SAR 21 compared to M16.
what are the significant advantages of the M-16 over the SAR-21 which in overall makes the M-16 a better rifle? -
yes SAR-21 may be heaviler ! but that little weight is nothing.
With its more managable recoil and better balance - this actually should help in more acurate shots.
The scope is factory zero - thus advantage is less training time , and no zeroing.In theory - you can pick up any SAR-21 to shoot well due to the special scope. While M-16 if it is not your rifle - you have to re-zero it - if not you will most likely missed !!!
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Originally posted by foxtrout8:
what are the significant advantages of the M-16 over the SAR-21 which in overall makes the M-16 a better rifle?
Parts for the M16/AR15 pattern rifle can be readily purchased over the internet.
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Originally posted by Meia Gisborn:
Parts for the M16/AR15 pattern rifle can be readily purchased over the internet.
quite true...btw i heard u can get it somewhere faster...
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yes SAR-21 may be heaviler ! but that little weight is nothing.
With its more managable recoil and better balance - this actually should help in more acurate shots.
The scope is factory zero - thus advantage is less training time , and no zeroing.Not too sure about that, in practice much lighter weapons like the TAR-21 still managed impressive MOAs despite being might lighter then the SAR-21.
And factory zero in practice does not work. In my experience with the SAR the zero is lost after a period of time as the rifle is "seasoned" and manual zeroing is needed. This is not surprising given no two weapons shoot exactly the same nor do any two shooters shoot exactly the same way, the weapon must be tuned to fit the shooter.
At the end of the day when I was in army, we spent a lot of time zeroing the SAR-21 before our shoots... even more so prehaps given the LAD will lose zero after a while and needs to be rezeroed or it is entirely useless for night range.
In theory - you can pick up any SAR-21 to shoot well due to the special scope. While M-16 if it is not your rifle - you have to re-zero it - if not you will most likely missed !!!
As stated above and from my experience, this is simply not true. At the end of the day the SAR needs zeroing as much as any other rifle to shoot true. The "factory zero" thing works for advertisting, but not in actual practical experience.
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IIRC, SAF uses the M653, imported from Colt. Not the M4. Yes, they still buy them brand new.
