New SAF Digital Camo No.4
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Originally posted by edwin3060:
The ALICE may be dated but at least it gives good ventilation for the back-- at least when wearing SBO webbing. It probably doesn't matter given the new LBV. The newer internal frame packs like those that the USMC is using will definitely be hotter. Anyway, we shouldn't just blindly copy other countries like the US because they have to deal with cold weather situations and we don't. I think at most a 50-60 L pack (like we have now) is more than enough.
Ehh. The spartan pack is the trial pack that was manufactured by Force21 and issued to 6SIR for trial-- after that they simplified it to become our new field pack. Some former 6SIR guys like my cousin still have them. Our new field packs are actually pretty functional I guess, given the fact that they cost only 35 emart credits each. I'd definitely buy my own bag if I could get away with it though :D
Agreed about Blackhawk-- their stuff may be the cutting edge in Singapore, but over in the US/UK there are so many much better backpack and military kit manufacturers. However blackhawk is probably the biggest, and most international, which is why in small countries like ours thats about all we get.
Bro, you know that ACU digital is that grey and white crap that the US Army is using now right? It definitely will stick out in camp, especially since everything else we use is mostly green. If it were me, I'd either get OD or Woodland. A pity that camelbak doesnt make HAWGs in OD anymore-- if there were I'd definitely buy one. If you desperately want a digital pattern though, I'd recommend the USMC Woodland MARPAT. I think it most closely matches our uniform colours.
Hmm.. the guy is not a neutral party-- his company actually produces the digital pattern design for the Jordanian army, so I'd take anything he says with a bit of salt. Still, regardless of who invented it, digital camou is probably a slight improvement over normal camou patterns-- However I don't think that the cost and confusion of changing over is worth it.
Ed, you are right that Alice has certain ventilation....but the funny part is that it's wasn't intended. It's not some funky Deuter design by default; it was just so that the frame and actual pack is kept away from the body as there are no backing for this vintage design...
In terms of ergonomics, Alice failed with our SBO, due to the back pouch htting into the lambar support, unless you are using the US or Israeli webbing. I actually modified my SAF std issue SBO backpouch by removing it and reattaching it to the front so that I can wear Alice comfortably.
But that means I have an enormous 'breast' in front that is lopsided. Convenience for maps and other accessories though.
Check out the Camelbak BFM. It's 45 li and much better than Maxpedition or Blackhawk. And if you are a water bag person, you'll know that Camelbak makes a damn good bag around the water pack while others merely build a space for water pack into the bag. Also check out the antenna/radio slots in BFM. Everything is top notch!
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Hmm.. I noticed that the digital No.4 in the picture still has epaulets though-- and the colour distribution seems to be very light-- maybe thats just because of the greyscale photo. Also, the poor guy in the photo has his LBV tightened too high!! The ammo pouches look more like in the position of a chest rig or something-- maybe he had to do it so that he could fit onto the cover :P
Nehpyh: I'm not too sure about your assertion-- as far as I can research the ALICE system was developed from the Vietnam era field pack which was designed to leave a space for ventilation-- in fact for the medium ALICE pack you can wear it with or without the frame. But it is certainly true that the frame serves other purposes like ease of lashing water containers, mortar base plates etc.
For me the one time I got to use the ALICE (or actually, our Sg made version), I was given the pack literally 30 minutes before we moved out, so all I did was hike up my SBO webbing until it was like a chest rig-- the back pouch fit easily into the space between the frame and my back, but all I had in there was a goretex.
Yep I think in our local context, Camelbak is probably one of the best choices for an "Assault" or 3 Day pack! Again, I'd really like to get my hands on one of the older Olive Drab Camelbak Hawgs-- I don't understand why they make their BFM and Motherlode in OD but not the Hawgs :(
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Originally posted by tankfanatic:
imho if we really need to change the no 4 into digital...might as well change everything including the webbing and load distribution vest...no use if all those thing still in old wood pattern?
Marpat.
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Originally posted by wonderamazement:
Marpat.
Nope, that's ACU.
This, however, is MARPAT Woodland.
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oh yea, my bad... mixed up. they do look pretty similar too...
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ACU works best in urban or grey mountainous environments--- it does OK in sandy/desert environments. Out of those three, we only fight in 1, the urban environment. We also fight in lots of forrested areas and plantations-- IIRC the US military deployed to jungle or woodland environments are still allowed to wear their old woodland pattern at the discretion of their commanders. For all these reasons the colour pattern for our new No. 4 should remain about the same, perhaps with black taken out, but that's about it. Anything else, like going ACU grey, would be pretty silly.
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Originally posted by sgf:
Why so strange that only officers and WOs have the ranks on the chest? I tot SAF was big on standardisation? If its on the chest then all shld be on the chest, no reason to have the specs and men still wear on the sleeves.
Out of the several designs if I've seen, I think the Canadian's look the nicest. Anyway, since our arms badge is on the right collar, that leaves the left collar empty and very wierd looking i.e. lob-sided. Maybe they'll follow US style and dump the rank there.
I'm guessing they'll have to design new name tag, S'pore tag and formations/arms badges too 'cos the existing colour scheme will probably not match.
Come to think of it, it was wierd looking enough when some soldiers went for ICT with S'pore tag and formation badges and some without. I can imagine if some go back with digital camo and some with woodlands camo. Lagi wierd looking!
The new tags will have an olive base colour.
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Originally posted by Pitot:
those who saw it, any idea wad is the pattern based on? Cadpat? ACU? Sweddish? Flecktarn?
Cadpat
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Originally posted by edwin3060:
ACU works best in urban or grey mountainous environments--- it does OK in sandy/desert environments. Out of those three, we only fight in 1, the urban environment. We also fight in lots of forrested areas and plantations-- IIRC the US military deployed to jungle or woodland environments are still allowed to wear their old woodland pattern at the discretion of their commanders. For all these reasons the colour pattern for our new No. 4 should remain about the same, perhaps with black taken out, but that's about it. Anything else, like going ACU grey, would be pretty silly.
I looked at the picture again today, it is significantly lighter in colour compared to the present no.4. It has a lot more olive/brown. It does have slightly less black though.
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Well, that makes sense (colour scheme). Any idea about the epaulets thingy? Is the picture on a booklet cover just an old version?
Also, anything else you can reveal about the No.4 design? For eg, zipper or button fasteners, any shoulder pockets, mandarin collar or normal collar etc.
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wow. tats nice to hear. look at the cadpat version of the greens. pretty awe inspiring.
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Found this in wiki..even the helmet camo looks like our style.
So, for those who've seen it, is it closer to the US MARPAT pic I posted earlier or the CADPAT Woodland above?
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Originally posted by kenn3th:
This is... hilarious. i did not even notice there was a soldier in the picture until i zoomed it.
Anyway, this sofa is perfect for SISPEC WOs who in outfield can set up a field lounge and have storemen set up VIP style dining area.
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Originally posted by kenn3th:
Now, that's tactical. But the boots.. use ACU cloth to make bootwraps and you're good to go. :D
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Imagine you wear the ACU for snow patrol and then sleep on the bed and your Sar-ang can't find you!!!!! :)
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Originally posted by LazerLordz:
Found this in wiki..even the helmet camo looks like our style.
So, for those who've seen it, is it closer to the US MARPAT pic I posted earlier or the CADPAT Woodland above?
Its somewhere in between the 2. Imagine the olive of the MARPAT mixed with the green of CADPAT.
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what about the Columbian digital camo? will it be similar or slightly darker?
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Very cool if they do come up with our own version.
Marpat has a bit too much brown for our terrain, while Cadpat's green is rather too 'bright' for us. A mix of both would be great.
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Thats the thing-- mix them up and you get...... our old No. 4 colours, just in a digital pattern :P Not worth the time or money, IMO.
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Oh i've seen the new uniform. The ranks for officers is worn on the chest in between the two breast pockets. Looks weird. But okay lah...screw it lol ORD lo
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Originally posted by |-|05|:
...The ranks for officers is worn on the chest in between the two breast pockets....
That's basically meant we are basing our design on the US style.
In fact, the modern US uniform has replaced all the buttons with velcro....now, would love to see the SAF follow suit!
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Not really-- there have been many complaints about the zipper and velcro on the US uniform-- basically the zipper gets jammed if theres any mud or dirt, and the velcro wears out or is made ineffective by the dirt. Flat buttons still seem to be the way to go.
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Buttons are still best. One sergeant mentioned that velcro may compromise your position when u are laying an ambush in a dead quiet night.