New SAF Digital Camo No.4
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In case anyone is interested, there's been a handbook released recently called "Building Our 3rd Generation Army" which contains pictures of SAF soldiers in what appears to be a digital camouflage No. 4 uniform. I'm not sure whether the handbook itself is intended for distribution to the public but the handbook is quoted in the March/April issue of the army newsletter which is available online here (PDF). It states that the handbook "will be distributed to all Army personnel" so serving members should be getting a copy soon, hopefully.
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Its hideous. And they are proposing for the rank epaulette be worn vertically on the chest.
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Originally posted by Zooish:
Its hideous. And they are proposing for the rank epaulette be worn vertically on the chest.
Great spot for any sniper, if they can find it.
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got pic?
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? Any pictures?
The rank tab on the chest and not on the shoulders is pretty much what every other army is doing nowadays-- This allows for less bunching of cloth on the shoulders and a better distribution of weight when wearing body armour or carrying heavy loads. It really makes sense IMO.
Atobe: I wouldn't be too worried about snipers-- the rank tabs should be small, and the black will be hard to distinguish against the woodland camou (or woodland digicam) of our No. 4. The glint of sunlight off the spectacles of our servicemen makes a much better and more easily spotted target ;)
Zooish: Why would you say that its hideous? Have you seen it? I wouldn't expect much change in the base colours on our No.4 now-- no radical urban grey like the US Army :P
P.S. I noticed in this issue of Army news and in the Dec/Jan issue that the team deployed to Afghanistan has at least one person wearing a Blackhawk Industries vest rather than our own LBV. Anybody has any idea if this is issued or personal purchase?
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Anyone have any pics of the alleged digital camo? I'm assuming its similar to what China or US has. Since they're going digital camo, I'm surprised they didn't wait for then to release the formation badges and S'pore tag. Might as well do it one shot.
I hope to God that new uniform doesn't mean new name tag, S'pore tag, formation badges et al.
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Interesting find, Typhoon. Thanks.
I wonder what shade will it be..
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ya, I was told by my mdm when I went back for my 2nd ICT late Feb this year, that the No 4 might be changing to a new colour by the time I go for my 3rd. So I guess they might change it either by the end of the year or early next year.
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first time i see milnuts topic hit the main page leh. must be a slow news day
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TMD!!!!!
I sew the badges until brrur leh!!!!
Wah...I'm abt to buy the camelbak BMF (old model) in olive green...maybe should change to digital DPM so that can use outfield....
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Originally posted by edwin3060:
? Any pictures?
The rank tab on the chest and not on the shoulders is pretty much what every other army is doing nowadays-- This allows for less bunching of cloth on the shoulders and a better distribution of weight when wearing body armour or carrying heavy loads. It really makes sense IMO.
Atobe: I wouldn't be too worried about snipers-- the rank tabs should be small, and the black will be hard to distinguish against the woodland camou (or woodland digicam) of our No. 4. The glint of sunlight off the spectacles of our servicemen makes a much better and more easily spotted target ;)
Zooish: Why would you say that its hideous? Have you seen it? I wouldn't expect much change in the base colours on our No.4 now-- no radical urban grey like the US Army :P
I've seen the prototype. Sorry, the image is circulated within SAF only. The rank tab in the prototype is the same size as the current shoulder tab, so it looks awkward on the chest. Only NCOs and Officers will have the tab on the chest; specialists will contiue to wear rank on the sleeves. The colour leans more to brown/olive rather than green.
Maybe i'm too used to the present number 4. Will take me a while to adjust to the new design.
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It may interest everyone here to know that the Digital Camo Design is a Science. with its unique signature digital pattern and is subject to ''trademarking''.
Digital Camouflage is the use of ''micro-shaped'' patterns formed digitally as opposed to the larger patches of ''macro-shaped'' traditional camouflage patterns.
These ''micro-shaped'' patterns may take on hexagon or round or square shaped designs, and are reproduced in different mix-and-match sequences across an entire surface - whether fabric or plastic or metal.
The different patterned shapes are similar to the digital dots that form a complete digital photo image, but reformed to ''blurr'' the obvious image of an object.
The original Digital Camo was said to be developed for the Canadian Armed Forces, and the Canadian Government helds the original design its CADPAT design.
When the US Marines wanted to adopt similar digital camouflage design as the Canadian Military, they encountered the Digital Camo Trademarks. problems, and had to seek clearance and assistance from the Canadians in order to develop the signature design for the US Marines.
The Canadians seem to be far ahead in their Digital Camo Criteria and it will not hurt for the DSTA design team to pick-up a few tips to develop one for the SAF, and this may not be the final piece of work.
With China's PLA uniform already going digital since 2007, there should be large scale manufacture of lower cost Made in PRC Digital Camo available to the SAF.
Digital Camouflage apparels are available for a long while, and with large scale production for militaries worldwide, the Digital Camo Pricing can be brought to lower and more affordable levels.
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lol.. i've seen the uniform b4.. it makes me go dizzy just by looking at it. one cant even figure out where the pockets are even at close look.
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edited.
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Digress a bit - SAF allows us to use our own fullpack right? As long as it's mil-spec, tactical olive, camou or black?
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Why so strange that only officers and WOs have the ranks on the chest? I tot SAF was big on standardisation? If its on the chest then all shld be on the chest, no reason to have the specs and men still wear on the sleeves.
Out of the several designs if I've seen, I think the Canadian's look the nicest. Anyway, since our arms badge is on the right collar, that leaves the left collar empty and very wierd looking i.e. lob-sided. Maybe they'll follow US style and dump the rank there.
I'm guessing they'll have to design new name tag, S'pore tag and formations/arms badges too 'cos the existing colour scheme will probably not match.
Come to think of it, it was wierd looking enough when some soldiers went for ICT with S'pore tag and formation badges and some without. I can imagine if some go back with digital camo and some with woodlands camo. Lagi wierd looking!
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Zooish: Hmm..I'll have to look around when I get back to Sg then ;)
Sgf: Maybe they want to maintain business for all the camp aunties and beach road aunties who sew on ranks for the specs and men :) ? Seriously I have no idea. Seems pretty dumb to me--- would be even more dumb if they used a button to secure the rank tab, esp since the Americans tried that and quickly reverted to velcro which sticks out (or into) less when wearing armour.
They can keep the same colour scheme, just in a digital pattern. Wouldnt need to change the colour for the various ID stuff then.
Imagine how much worse for the US Army when they changed from woodland to ACU(grey)! In the middle of a war summore!
Nehpyh: At the unit level, I haven't seen anything other than 1) Old field pack 2) New field pack 3)Spartan pack(6 SIR) 4) US Large ALICE pack, although I have seen my OCS Instructor using a Blackhawk RAPTOR X1. My guess is that just about everybody makes do with the standard issue stuff, as is expected with a conscript army :)
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You are right. Not many army seow out there!
My camp uses the Alice but I think that's a little too dated riao...dun make a good assult bag...maybe for LRRP is ok...but then again, it's too far back - higher is better than broader an thicker (if you know what i mean). There are tonnes of those >100Li with light internal frame....time to rethink, SAF!!!!
Anyway, can't wait to get the Camelbak BFM in ACU digital for my next in camp!
IMO, the Blackhawk is grossly overrated...the back support cmi, gets molly round fabric balls, and clumsy weight on handles!!! Can shave some weight off non-critical parts la...
P/S What is a Spartan Pack sia? Or you meant Spartan pec?!!! lol
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This guy said that US is NOT the 2nd to intro digital camou...the 2nd to intro is not a country or mil, it's this author!
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The ALICE may be dated but at least it gives good ventilation for the back-- at least when wearing SBO webbing. It probably doesn't matter given the new LBV. The newer internal frame packs like those that the USMC is using will definitely be hotter. Anyway, we shouldn't just blindly copy other countries like the US because they have to deal with cold weather situations and we don't. I think at most a 50-60 L pack (like we have now) is more than enough.
Ehh. The spartan pack is the trial pack that was manufactured by Force21 and issued to 6SIR for trial-- after that they simplified it to become our new field pack. Some former 6SIR guys like my cousin still have them. Our new field packs are actually pretty functional I guess, given the fact that they cost only 35 emart credits each. I'd definitely buy my own bag if I could get away with it though :D
Agreed about Blackhawk-- their stuff may be the cutting edge in Singapore, but over in the US/UK there are so many much better backpack and military kit manufacturers. However blackhawk is probably the biggest, and most international, which is why in small countries like ours thats about all we get.
Bro, you know that ACU digital is that grey and white crap that the US Army is using now right? It definitely will stick out in camp, especially since everything else we use is mostly green. If it were me, I'd either get OD or Woodland. A pity that camelbak doesnt make HAWGs in OD anymore-- if there were I'd definitely buy one. If you desperately want a digital pattern though, I'd recommend the USMC Woodland MARPAT. I think it most closely matches our uniform colours.
Hmm.. the guy is not a neutral party-- his company actually produces the digital pattern design for the Jordanian army, so I'd take anything he says with a bit of salt. Still, regardless of who invented it, digital camou is probably a slight improvement over normal camou patterns-- However I don't think that the cost and confusion of changing over is worth it.
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those who saw it, any idea wad is the pattern based on? Cadpat? ACU? Sweddish? Flecktarn?
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wah.... to vague to distinguish..
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imho if we really need to change the no 4 into digital...might as well change everything including the webbing and load distribution vest...no use if all those thing still in old wood pattern?
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Originally posted by tankfanatic:
imho if we really need to change the no 4 into digital...might as well change everything including the webbing and load distribution vest...no use if all those thing still in old wood pattern?
Nice demo, Tank! But the boots should go..lol