SAF Mortar Types
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Can someone tell me if SAF still uses 60 mm and 81 mm mortars in the infantry battalions including PDF units ?
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as far as I know ....
the 81 is used only by one formation in the SAF ... the hendon boys ...
the 60 ? ... haven't seen or heard of it ...
someone verify this ...
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If true, it is strange that SAF does not use 60 and 81 mm mortars since these weapons seem to be very effective & useful in the fighting in Iraq & in other conflicts in recent history & in during the World Wars.
US Infantry battalions have a generous inventory of these weapons in their TOE.
Manhandled mortars have proved their worth is almost all major combat so far. Wonder if this is equipment shortfall in SAF shud be addressed.
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dude .... the 81s are man-packed in the SAF .... yes, that's right, some poor fuckers in the mortar platoon hump the tubes on their backs ...
and the 120 are certainly man-handled in the infantry battalions ...
what are you talking about ? ...
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Well, the mortar platoon in each battalion will tow a few 120mm pieces into battle.... a sort of a small-scale artillery to be used at the CO's disposal, if you will.
81mm is the NATO standard, I believe.... I remember reading that the Soviets created the 82mm mortar in response to the NATO 81mm. The theory goes that the Soviets would be able to use captured NATO mortar shells (albeit to a low degree of accuracy), whereas the NATO troops wouldn't be able to make use of captured Soviet mortar shells.
60mm? I don't think that has ever been used in the SAF.
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Heard during my NS days the M203 had similar effectiveness as the 60, as 60 was out of the SAF
As for the 81, we already had the 120 so what is the need for 81? so it was also out of the armed forcesOne must understand that, no point having a weapon system if u cannot support. I will be interested to see when the super rapid 120 is coming into the infantry and guards battalions
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Ooh, the 60mm mortar..tucked away and mothballed. It's really old, mind you..
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Of course, after the British converted from their 57mm mortar to the 40mm GL, they started complaining about the lack of firepower of the GL. I think it is a trade off between mobility, rate of fire and firepower and range-- the 40mm GL is lighter and can fire more often (I think) while the 57 or 60mm mortar packs a bigger punch and has a longer range.
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we used to have 160mm heavy mortar (Soltam?), used for a few years sometime around the mid 80's, then stop using it later....any reason why?
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we have both 81mm n 120mm.. got HE, WP and incendiary..
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Depending too much on 120 Super Rapid is placing too many egss in a basket dont you think.
What happens when you need to fire the mortar dismounted ? You cannt dismount a 120 SR right ?
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Uh.. I don't get you sepecat-- the whole point of the SRAMS is so that the mortar system has more mobility. Why would you want to dismount the mortar in that case?
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i think its best to have something man portable lar, cos depending too much on 120SR might be a bit risky... if it gets taken out, ...there goes our firepower.........we should have something like a backup system.
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yar--- except when u're the guy who has to carry the bloody baseplate! Given the drop in manpower, and the general physical fitness of the population, I don't think that it is feasible to have man portable mortars anymore-- especially not at the platoon level, which is what the British used to do. Remember that your extra mortar group means that you got less men for fire and maneuvre, room clearing, etc and your platoon as a whole is less mobile-- which seems to be the keyword in today's military. We'll just have to make do with M203/Matador--- unless someone develops a titanium mortar or something ;)
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Originally posted by Sepecat:
Can someone tell me if SAF still uses 60 mm and 81 mm mortars in the infantry battalions including PDF units ?
60mm phased out in the early 80s
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
60mm phased out in the early 80s
yeah i dun really rmb seeing one in the dump..
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Originally posted by purpledragon84:
yeah i dun really rmb seeing one in the dump
The 60mm mortar team was disbanded in 1981 and the mortars were probably sold to a third world country by the end of 80s.
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
The 60mm mortar team was disbanded in 1981 and the mortars were probably sold to a third world country by the end of 80s.
icic.. who dare to use sia.. after us.. after the conditions of storage.. lol..
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They were in good condition and all covered in thick grease as I remembered .SAF sure knows how to get rid of stuffs you can bet on that.
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Reality is that man handled 81s and even 60s are necessary as not all situations one can use 120 SR. Also, as arball pointed out , depending solely on the arty battalion has its risks. Having your own mortars in an infantry battalion gives you very much more responsive fire support when the " sh.." hits the fan.
Thats why in US Army Stryker Brigades the mortar carriers carry 60s and I think also 81s for dismounted use.
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we do have organic mortar support for our infantry battalions, that's the 120s ..... cept for the hendon boys, as i've pointed out ...
anything higher up, and you'd be calling in the 155s ....
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Sepecat: Good points, and ideal in a perfect situation. However, we live in an imperfect world where our sections and platoons are small in numbers and already fairly overloaded with equipment. How do you propose we fit a mortar team into the platoon?
Even if that were possible, would it be worth it, given the decrease in mobility that would result from the increase in load?
I think that man-portable mortars are not optimal given the requirements and capabilities of the Infantry. Vehicle mounted on the other hand.. :)
P.S. The Stryker Brigades are basically mechanised Infantry, whereas we are still very much a light, or at most motorised Infantry. You cannot use them as an example of how we should equip our Infantry presently, since I'll bet most of the time their mortars stay on the vehicle anyway.
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hmm
then have to see of your situation lar.....seeing that we're trying to become a highly manueverable and effective force, while still staying small enough, perhaps the 120SR is the current logical way to go...but still some situations would call for special needs lar, so we shld keep the stuff, and ensure that the grunts have at least some exposure to it, so that in war, in case the 120SRs are heavily hit, the backup may still be brought up and used to some effectiveness...(though much less than that of 120SR)
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our OPFOR company still using 60mm
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I don't think singapore can afford to have an orbat that uses 'man-portable' mortars... I am not sure how many men you will need to service one mortar but I don't think it will be less then 8. 8 men to 1 mortar is too much...
as to over dependency on the 120SR, i agree with you. But given the reality of the situation (lack of manpower), this is the optimize solution... not ideal but the best situation we can have given the reality that we are in.