Oz waste $ to probe HMS Sydney sinking in WW 2
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The incidents happened in SG,be it accidient or human error or neligience,
is isolated cases.Lives were lost.Very serious matter.But touched wood.
Very few or none has happened so far.
Just like British made the wrong judgement that Japan would invade SG from south---from sea.The top brass also made mistake,hopefully not many.
2.In Oz cases,pl open your eyes and mind to read what happened during the
past 20 years in defense procurements procedures.
Systematic failures.I have said here few months ago and now
the Oz medias also repeated this judegment.
Defence lacks solutions
Allan Behm | March 11, 2008
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,23352078-7583,00.html?from=public_rss
It is not just the upgrade of the army's armoured vehicles, the modernisation of the navy's frigates or the delivery of the air force's airborne early warning aircraft that face cost overruns and delay: dozens of projects are in arrears.
The problem is not the staff that make up the project teams, though staff turnover and a lack of experience and expertise impose serious constraints on performance. It is a much more systemic problem that goes right to the heart of the capability selection, development and decision-making processes within the department. Failures in these areas are costing billions in waste and delay......
3.The Staff College of SAF must put Oz cases into text books.
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Dude dont kid yourself.
Stuff in the SAF stays in the buried deep under piles of other files.
Just because you cant see or hear it doesnt mean they dont exist. Other countries have a habit of being more open.
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Originally posted by CM06:
Dude dont kid yourself.
Stuff in the SAF stays in the buried deep under piles of other files.
Just because you cant see or hear it doesnt mean they dont exist. Other countries have a habit of being more open.
it is your wish that ''Other countries have a habit of being more open.''
2.To other forumers,cyber space is precious,Dunt waste our time and space repeat your posting.we caN REMEMBER WHAT U HAVE POSTED.
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We can remember what you have posted too. After all, who can forget such gems as:
- inline skates for urban combat
- soldiers running away carrying their SAR21s by the handles
- ski ramps for Superbugs
- using $250k RPVs to kill $3k machine guns
- dropping M1s from C-130sThere's no time and space wasted - the hysterical hilarity of your inane ramblings is worth every minute.
Talk about wasting time and space? You, the grand champion of indiscriminate cut-and-pastes over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and bloody over again? Fuck me drunk, your hypocrisy is mind-boggling.
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Originally posted by Gedanken:
ST, there's loose, and then there's entirely missing.
But you must admit it is kinda fun pwning him because he actually tries to argue his point despite showing to everyone that he not only lacks the required knowledge, but also a big deal of common sense as well... which is not really surprising for him given he is far less interested in logic and more in making anything military by Singapore look good, to the point of crashing Fantail and inline skate force.Ironically, he is making Singapore look really, really bad.
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Originally posted by noisylion:
it is your wish that ''Siggie have good defence compare to other country.''
But too bad not true
2.To other forumers,cyber space is precious,Dunt waste our time and space repeat your posting.we caN REMEMBER WHAT U HAVE POSTED AND DUNT CARE COS ITS WRONG.
The incidents happened in SG,be it accidient or human error or neligience,
is NOT isolated cases.
Lives were lost.Very serious matter.
Many incidents!
Happen year after year after year!
The top brass also made many mistake, again and again!
SAF never learn lessons?
Only you blind son, never see the forrest!
2.In SG cases,pl open your eyes and mind to read what happened during the
past 20 years in defense failures and accidents despite moneys spent!.
Systematic failures.I have said here few months ago and now
the Sg medias also repeated this judegment.
3.The Safety Training Regulations of SAF put SG cases into text books, BUT STILL NO WORK!
Accidents happen again and again! Wrong trainings use! Terrorist leader escape!
Why?
Because of pple like lionnoisy believe everything is fine and dunt wan to change anything.
But Siggie defence full of systematic failures!
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
it is your wish that ''Other countries have a habit of being more open.''
2.To other forumers,cyber space is precious,Dunt waste our time and space repeat your posting.we caN REMEMBER WHAT U HAVE POSTED.
The difference is people can remember and make sense of it:There is something seriously wrong with the SAF- anybody who served in NS before can tell you.
The difference here is you can't, choosing to call repeated incidents that happen year after year after year "isloated incidents"
Is a entire training issue that drowned a soldier that was actually wrong issued to batches (hundreds or thousands of trainees trained wrongly) an "isloated" incident?
Was an old, unworkable and outdated design millions was spent on a light tank on which the lives of their crews and the soldiers (thousands of soldiers) depended on an "isloated" incident?
Is hiring an unqualified raceboat person to teach coast guard interdiction methods (hundreds trained in wrong method) an "isolated" incident?
Is a terrorist leader managing to escape from Singapore's high security and EVADE detection and capture by the full might of Singapore's "advanced" security an "isloated" incident?
These things are possible because of the result of long standing systemic failures in Singapore's defence. Even the book Defending the Lion City pointed it out: While impressive on paper, the SAF seems to be more red tape and covering things up then warriors.
There's on isloated incident I think, and that is the general level of intelligence you display in your posts in here... I don't really think I see it commonly or it having any link with reality.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
But you must admit it is kinda fun pwning him because he actually tries to argue his point despite showing to everyone that he not only lacks the required knowledge, but also a big deal of common sense as well... which is not really surprising for him given he is far less interested in logic and more in making anything military by Singapore look good, to the point of crashing Fantail and inline skate force.Ironically, he is making Singapore look really, really bad.
I like your analogy of his climbing up a tree wearing his underwear on his head because it's perfectly apt. he's coming up with all kinds of boneheaded ideas to suggest something a different way of doing something, but without any purpose whatsoever. The irony here is that he's so completely immersed in his wacky fantasy land that he completely fails to see the purpose behind things being done by people doing the real work.
I suppose it's amusing in a buffoonish way - he really is SGF's answer to Homer Simpson, isn't he? Well, without Homer's saving graces at least.
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
it is your wish that ''Other countries have a habit of being more open.''
2.To other forumers,cyber space is precious,Dunt waste our time and space repeat your posting.we caN REMEMBER WHAT U HAVE POSTED.
Erm, when was the last time SAF admitted a screw up anywhere, if someone didnt die and they cannot cover up the death?When have you ever gotten a report of Armour training related deaths?
Ever heard of the tank turning turtle when the vehicle went up too steep a hill? Ever heard of a driven tank falling into a flooded ditch so deep you cant see the vehicle? Ever heard the BX had flip sideways like a coin in the initial trials?
I mentioned only the vehicles.
Personal experience can only be heard with your ears from your commanders and never documented on paper.
Dude, just because you dont read them in reports or news paper articles for you to copy and paste doesnt mean they dont exist.
You know what's the "tempest?" You ever heard it being news reported anywhere with PEEKTURE? You got touch the thing before or see it with your own eyes?
Other "western" countries have a better open minded / public notification policy than we do. This is a fact. Now you are making me look dumb.
Try fishing for infomation about our F-16 and other aircraft losses. Those are next to impossible to have more than a fistful of infomation. We gave thailand 7 A/Bs what happened to the other 3?
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I think suffice to say, he never served in NS before or even have any sort of a proper idea how wars are fought.
I really love his attempt to sound all military by trying really hard to come up with some situtation in which a grunt needs to run for his life holding his SAR by the scope handle! And in the end he concluded that a scope handle is good in a situtation in which you need to cross open ground for 50 meters under heavy enemy fire when any grunt who has been in training can tell you that even if you had no weapon and was in PT kit and sprinting at full speed you'll most probably be dead.
And of course there is also the issue that lionnoisy simply ignored or pretended that didn't exist was that the FASTEST way to run with your rifle was to hold it close to your body and sprint, not dangle it at the end of one arm like a shopping bag via the scope handle.
Of course I love it how the way he glosses over everything of the TAR-21 that was better then the SAR-21 basic and kept on looking a the scope handle, which no grunt who used the SAR-21 even cared about in the first place.
Seriously this guy simply does not know anything!
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
not dangle it at the end of one arm like a shopping bag via the scope handle.
I think you're on to something here. Maybe because Loud Pussy runs after the bus on Orchard Road carrying his handbag that way, he assumes it's the best way to run.
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perhaps we should reccomend him to be a weapon-tester or smth...
Sales tag-line: "if lionnoisy can use it, anyone can!"
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Close but not quite. If Noisy Pussy can use it, it's not fit for combat.
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Actually I think ST might hire him as an advisor...
...so they know what NOT to do
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
One of the management priority is to set the priority right!
From personnel to country,with limited resources but unlimited goals,
one has to prioritze his targets.
Oz defense,currently are struck with lot of issues to be settled.
However,ample resources will be spent to probe the sinking of
HMAS Sydney by German auxiliary cruiser Kormoran,
in 1941 in WW 2!!
People will wanna know what happened, especially the bloodlines of the sailors involved. Guess people in Aus, US, etc this "My family fought for country" thing that can be seen frm their hollywood movies. They'll hold it dear to their heart, they'll wanna know how their grandfather/great grandfather contributed and what killed them.
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Originally posted by airgrinder:
People will wanna know what happened, especially the bloodlines of the sailors involved. Guess people in Aus, US, etc this "My family fought for country" thing that can be seen frm their hollywood movies. They'll hold it dear to their heart, they'll wanna know how their grandfather/great grandfather contributed and what killed them.
Don't bother reasoning with him.
If Australia does this... then it is a waste of resources.
If Singapore does this... then he'll say it's a good thing that shows the government cares.
Of course, he fails to account for the extensive cost, energy and amount of effort spent by our military in organizing something like National Day year after year after year when we have many systemic issues that are still not fixed.
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There are many serious and urgent issues to be solved in Oz defense.
Spending limited resources to probe HMS Sydney iso solving the more pressing problems , is against principal of management.Probing HMS Sydney is important but not urgent
Defending Oz ,being Urgent and important, is the no.1 priority.
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Originally posted by noisylion:
There are many serious and urgent issues to be solved in Sg defense.
Spending limited resources to do national day iso solving the more pressing problems like soldier steal rifles from camp, accidents in training, and terrorist leader escape, is against principal of management.National Day is important but not urgent
Defending Sg ,being Urgent and important, is the no.1 priority.
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Let's see... when I was in NS, I was one of those who were tasked to hammer little wooden boards in sec schs in rows and columns so that the little kids can practise performing
Also, being in the BRC, I have seen many military bike related incidents and accidents... Just the training course alone, those who took with me (totalled around 20+), 2 went OOC because of heavy injuries sustained, with one person having broken his arm (can see bone jutting out) and one having fractured his leg.
And also, just by carrying the field pack of all the equipments and walking super long distance, a number of my fellow mates had injured their lower back till they have to downgrade, some had their knees worn out too.
Not to mention finally that my POW training course was the course just before the one that killed that Sgt...
Of course, these do not cost much waste and delay. The best compensation that SAF can give to these people is a downgrade from active duty. How much does that cost?
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U may be so amazing how fast Oz decided to buy F 18 in 2007.
Though the process become laughing stock in Western defense circles.
Wat Oz done ,like they did in Collins sub purchase.
This is probably the ultimate lesson of the Collins submarine program. Nothing will be done to avoid a recurrence of problems in future major defence procurement programs, similar to those that have affected the submarines, unless the past of the Collins program is examined and the lessons learned. The most effective way to reduce the consequences of poor Defence procurement lies in much earlier intervention by policymakers in the development of defence equipment projects. To play its role in this process the Parliament will need to invent new procedures.
http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/2001-02/02RP03.htm
2.History just repeat itself.The decision makers just decide the F18,without
consulting the Oz Air Force!!
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Originally posted by noisylion:
U may be so amazing how fast Sg security fail again and again in 2007 and 2008.
Though the process become laughing stock in Western defense circles.
Wat Sg done ,like they did in SAR 21 rifle stolen with bullets from camp, hours taken to inform public.
Teo, whose case is pending, went absent without leave from Mandai Hill Camp on Sept 2 when he took the SAR-21 and five rounds of ammunition.
He went home and retrieved three more rounds he had earlier stolen and loaded them into the magazine. He left home with the rifle in a bag and checked into Champagne Hotel in Lorong 16 Geylang the next day.
http://alvinology.wordpress.com/2008/02/28/who-is-ong-boon-jun/
2.History just repeat itself.A terrorist leader once again escape and hours taken before
consulting and telling the Sg public!!
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there are more pressing issues to be solves than probing HMS Sydney:
1.Aussie Patrol fleet docked over fuel defect,again
the whole fleet of Armidale Class Patrol Boats
has to be docked again!posted Feb 2007
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/235530
2.Aussie sub 88 op days a year
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/245201
3.Oz Colin class sub partial blind & crippled
Lack of 30% hands strands (Aussie) navy subs
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/239903
4.OZ FFG cannot go to war
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/301659
5.Oz axe Vietnam-era airframe orphan platform Seasprite
without this naval platform designed for ANZAC frigate,
How can oz to protect'' navy's Anzac class frigates?
http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/anzac/
http://www.sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/309931
6.M113 upgrade took more than 10 years....
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Originally posted by noisylion:
there are more pressing issues to be solves than doing national day:
1.Inline skate force risk soldiers lives!
the idea suggest of making SAF soldier fight urban warfare with inline skate, laughing stock of sgforums!
posted Mar 2007
http://sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/310722
2.Using 250 ton rated UAF for 30 megaton applications
Someone say Mandai UAF is equal to Cheyenne Mountain and can stand 30 megaton when only rated for 250 tons
http://sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/310203
3.FANTAIL class UAV partial blind & crippled by wrong mission
Lack of good common sense make UAV use for wrong purpose, such as carsh into targets
http://sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/306926
4.SAF soldiers trained wrongly to run for life holding rifle by handle
SAF soldier taught by lionnoisy that best feature of SAR is to hold by handle wit 1 hand n run 4 life! in real life this will kill them!
http://sgforums.com/forums/1164/topics/310955
5.Terrorist escape through toliet, SAR-21 rifle stolen from camp
with all this happening, despite millions spend on securities
How can SG to protect'' anything?
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2008/03/11/reviewing-mas-selamat%E2%80%99s-escape/
6.AMX-13 upgrade took more than 20 years many failure, majority of NS man armour crew not trained in new leopard 2....