NS nowadays is like scout camp
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Originally posted by Short Ninja:
Who do you think can kick a55 harder, a group of hardened but not so well equiped soldiers or a group of Chow Ah Kua armed to the teeth? During my time we just got big dicks & iron balls sticking out between our legs but the Modern SAF is a better figthing machine and will kick A55
Issue is whether the Chow Ah Kua or Kuniang armed to the teeth or the old timers with big dicks & iron balls who is able to hold the line.
But again.... Kuniang's nowadays might be more mentally "indoctrinated" due to inexhuastible indoctrination through NE in secondary schools to NS. But again maybe not.
Aiyah.... as long as when the button is pressed, and everybody is ready to stand and fight to the end, kuniang or ah beng is good enough by me.
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I suppose you guys were big on anti-abrasion lubricants and stayed far far away from magnets...?
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
Last I checked nuclear warfare isn't really on the decks in this region, so what's with this "one bomb" thing except to demostrate a lack of actual proper knowledge.
Firstly if we do not have a credible military, we will have a lot less cards on the deck when dealing with other things that don't have much to do with the military at all. You can forget about Malaysia playing nice in the water deals, they can simply cut or uncut the tap as and when they please because they know that you don't really have any way to stop them from doing so.
You can forget about people bothering to go to international court to settle stuff about whoes rock belongs to who. They'll just plant their flag there and we'll suck thumb and whine.
When push comes to shove and you are a pushover then you can forget about a lot of things.
Think Israel :D
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You mean we have the Bomb????? Lol just kidding....
But again..... you might never know.
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Guys,
Be careful wat you wished for...
The only way to toughen up a military unit is to put it through an acid test of real combat. Now, if you look around the world, nowadays, where are the hot spots...? Iraq? Afghanistan? The War on Terror is real and SAF has been slowly but surely participated, via small contributions like medical teams, air refuelling etc. on the side of Uncle Sam. Now what is stopping Uncle from asking SAF to contribute more in terms of "boots on the ground"..??
If you have followed other military forums on the web etc...NATO "boots on the ground" contributors in Afghan is already stretched thin. They are currently pressing Germany to increase more troops to fight in the S. Afghan. Already 700 extra French troops are going to Afghan. So my point is, be prepared to see real combat in Afghan in the near future.
Good Luck!!
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YES!! COPPLER!!!
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Of course,if you dont like it in the Army,u can always defeat to the enemy's.
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use our Gundams stored in Nee Soon camp depot during war
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Originally posted by Tancold:
Issue is whether the Chow Ah Kua or Kuniang armed to the teeth or the old timers with big dicks & iron balls who is able to hold the line.
But again.... Kuniang's nowadays might be more mentally "indoctrinated" due to inexhuastible indoctrination through NE in secondary schools to NS. But again maybe not.
Aiyah.... as long as when the button is pressed, and everybody is ready to stand and fight to the end, kuniang or ah beng is good enough by me.
The best type of defender is when soldier
1)Whole family got annihilated (wife ,sister,mother kena raped even pet dog made into Satay - eaten by the invading army)
2)Buddies blown to pieces by arty bombardment and you have to bury them all by yourself
3)Have not eaten in days and slept well in weeks
4)Nobody to whine to not even a laptop where you can KPKB in a forum
5)Dirty,smelly,cold and wounded
6)Lots of ammunition /weapons lying around
7)You can hear the enemy partying on the other side and smelling the BBQ
8)They are calling for you to defect on a loudhailer once everu 10 minutes while playing dangdut music in between
9) They start to throw food leftovers just short of your position.
10) They drop flyers from the sky that says 'KNNBCCB you enough oreddy ar not?'
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troops cant fight or have no guts to kill is not un common in war. Its a psycological behaviour known as 'why johny cant kill'. The first acount on this phenomenon is in the american civil war. In the aftermath of a battle an officer who is counting the rifle left all over the battlefield, found a wierd thing. He found out 27 % of the rifle were unused...and most of it have multiple reload, some even up to the front end of the barrel.
again the same phenomenon were found during WW2, although most war veteran dismissed this as untrue. Its not untill vietnam war that a proper study were done to learn about this behaviour. During the vietnam war it is revealed that at least 15 % of the soldier interviewed cant shoot or kill a human being. 15%!
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An enchik once told me his story about the confrontation.His team then led by a Singh leftenan from Singapore was on a search and destroy mission in Johore not far from the location where their army buddies were earlier massacred.With the young officer taking point,suddendly he bumped into an Indonesian Soldier in the bush.....face to face both of them automatically freezed like as if for all eternity when in a moment of desperation after waking up from his farking idea the bhai officer opened fire and killed his enemy instantly.That man you all know know him ....as Colonel Gill.
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Originally posted by tankfanatic:
troops cant fight or have no guts to kill is not un common in war. Its a psycological behaviour known as 'why johny cant kill'. The first acount on this phenomenon is in the american civil war. In the aftermath of a battle an officer who is counting the rifle left all over the battlefield, found a wierd thing. He found out 27 % of the rifle were unused...and most of it have multiple reload, some even up to the front end of the barrel.
again the same phenomenon were found during WW2, although most war veteran dismissed this as untrue. Its not untill vietnam war that a proper study were done to learn about this behaviour. During the vietnam war it is revealed that at least 15 % of the soldier interviewed cant shoot or kill a human being. 15%!
Thats why all armies nowadays use operant conditioning to train their soldiers. The book by US Lt. Col. Dave Grossman "On Killing" is a pretty good resource. Every time someone goes for range they are being trained to shoot and kill the enemy without the feelings of guilt and remorse. -
I've read somewhere in this forum (?) that Malaysian Special Ops once infiltrated one of our SAF camps and place a token momento in the officer's mess. Could anyone verify this from your other friends or previous NS batches?
If the above is true, it's damn malu on SAF...
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Originally posted by CPL:
I've read somewhere in this forum (?) that Malaysian Special Ops once infiltrated one of our SAF camps and place a token momento in the officer's mess. Could anyone verify this from your other friends or previous NS batches?
If the above is true, it's damn malu on SAF...
its BS..what actually happen is a training exercise..we the OPFOR...them and ours infilltrate and simulating a SAM sabotage...very long time ago -
The thing about the SAF is this. We are trying to make the first strike instead of the enemy.
We are not going to let the enemy hit us first before we attack. We are going to attack when they are not even looking at us. Some people can do this, some people can't.
When an army is make up of volunteers, it is much easier for people to make the first move. Or when you are living in a generation when people have to be physically tougher.
With the current generation, some people are not meant to be a soldier in the first place. There is no motivation to do so. The reason why US invade Iraq for the second time is mainly due to the US population wanting more and more blood after 911.
The same as world war 2, after what Japan did to USA. Singapore isn't going to fight a war anytime soon, nor are we really pissing anyone off enough for a war to start.
Simply, forcing the current generation into a soldier mindset is hard. Forcing them to become trained killers in even harder.
The older generation might be able to actually kill for their defense, espically during the early years of singapore, with so much chaos and etc.
The majority of a peaceful generation is not meant to be a soldier. Marching drills, excerise and learning to use a gun does not make one a soldier. The ability to take all of them, with the urge to kill the enemy without mercy makes one a soldier.
NS is basically a deterence force now. Don't force military training into people who hated the idea of being a soldier. If so, the motivation of those people to train will be very low, and it may damage their loyalty to the country. A person who hated NS will view this as the government trying to enslave the people.
Most of the overseas singaporeans, who are not members in this forums, said that the reason why the migrated to due to the government's actions and etc. NS is one of the few reasons.
I don't think we should 'toughen' them up. Trying to 'toughen' them up can make quite a number of people to hate NS even more.
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Ya sure, then we will have lots of "fags" that are do not know to carry arms and just let the invading force waltz right in to sodomize them.
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Originally posted by Tancold:
Ya sure, then we will have lots of "fags" that are do not know to carry arms and just let the invading force waltz right in to sodomize them.
As opposed to being screwed out of job opportunities by NS now?
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Originally posted by rooki:
As opposed to being screwed out of job opportunities by NS now?
There is no difference in Job opportunities if your entire age group does the same 2 year NS. It has been on going since 1968. What kind of "Kuniang" excuse was that?You couldn't possibly say you get screwed out of job opportunities if your peers other then females are doing the same thing and ORD at the same time with you and joining the job market about the same time.
What's the matter with you? You're not man enough to spend 2 years protecting your homeland like the rest of your predecessors. You meant to say it was safe for the last 40 years so what the hell it should be safe in the future? Where have you been hidding all this time? under a rock in Bukit Timah Hill?
Let me tell you, if not for the dedication and sacrifice of those predecessors, those pass generations of young men who did their NS, it wouldn't be this peaceful and safe as you would be enjoying right now. If you have not been so ignorant of the "situations" our country had gone through you would probably be more appreciative our arm forces. And that it is the pride and honour for every mother's father's son to serve.
Damn sometimes I'm so sad that there are so many defeatist and cowardly males in our country.
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Originally posted by Tancold:
There is no difference in Job opportunities if your entire age group does the same 2 year NS. It has been on going since 1968. What kind of "Kuniang" excuse was that?You couldn't possibly say you get screwed out of job opportunities if your peers other then females are doing the same thing and ORD at the same time with you and joining the job market about the same time.
I missed out "by females and foreigners". Thought it would be obvious, but I apologize for not making it clear to certain intellectually-challenged people, who seem to think the military is some sort of end-all of national exixtence.
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We own what we can defend. You can squat on a state land for decades yet, if you cannot defend your right to the land in court and ENFORCE that right, ultimately, the land don't belong to you. Same logic applies to other aspects of life.
We need wn sizeable and credible armed forces to defend our sovereign right. In order to be credible, we need well-trained soldiers. How else can you produce respected effective soldiers if the training is not tough. Oh, I get it. Buy expensive weapons to deter? :) Parade these "white elephants" to the public and journalists regularly every year to deter potential aggressor.
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talking about tough training let see how the Korean Marine trained.
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more training
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more training
which produce......
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Continue from above. Hit "saved" accidentally.
I quote ray245: "Don't force military training into people who hated the idea of being a soldier." ..."motivation of those people to train will be very low, and it may damage their loyalty to the country."
We need a sizeable and credible citizen armed forces to defend our sovereign right. In order to have a credible deterence, we need well-trained soldiers. How else can you produce respected effective soldiers if the training is not tough. Oh, I get it. Buy expensive weapons to deter? :) Parade these "white elephants" to the public and journalists regularly every year to deter potential aggressor. Please don't turn a blind eye to the price for peace. Our effective citizen soldiers have reaped peace dividends many-fold over for our continued existence as a nation in this volatile region. My respect to the motivated soldiers in SAF, past, present and future.
In any case, military training may be tough but there are plenty of breaks in-between to rest the soul and body. If it can't break you, it will only make you stronger mentally. Yep, the regimentation may kill some brain-cells. But you are saddle with "chores" in civilian life as well. Some tasks at work, home, ... are not always interesting but need to be executed nevertheless. We don't have a choice in everything. Teach me how to escape from such "chores" then? delegate, sub-contract, off-shoring,...? At some point the buck has to stop. Not in your lap?
Much as we pride ourselves on having a strong forward thinking armed forces that is improving it's capabilities everyday, we don't train professional killers. No respectable armed forces do that. Watch "Letters from Iwo Jima". Even the hated Imperial Japanese Army could not turn every soldiers into a brain-less killing machine. The training has become so civilized and scientific now compared to my NSF period. Almost all training are outcome-based. Any task which are not value-adding to the outcome are discarded.
I just don't understand what's so wrong about being a soldier, a citizen soldier at that. It's role play, role play and role play. In fact, you can complete a part-time study course during the NSF period if you so wish. Nobody is asking you to kill, for now. When the time come upon us, we will decide. Until then, just do your part as a show of force so that your degree of loyalty is not at doubt.
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"Take things for granted"
"Psychoed by the MIW of nonexistent enemy"
"Be a man and take it like a man!"
"Money to feed my stomach first"
"Do it for your family and friends"
"Who needs those?"
"Do it for yourself then"
"Not doing NS, IS doing it for myself"
"If you dont like to serve NS for 2 years and reservist for 20 more, go sit in Kranji for 3 years and come out with a record lo."
"...."
Owned.