NS nowadays is like scout camp
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went to my son's parents visit day. seen their living condition, food and also combat rations. wah liew, it's like holiday camp.
with our sons getting softer by the day, how can we expect them to defend our country when it matters?
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it's not the armies fault....it's parent.....their pampered child complain to parent, parent go see member of parliament blah blah blah and end up in mindef....so everything start to improve. I think you have to talk to all the parent, suggest to them that the army must toughen up their son, so training, living condition and food should be like the 70's or make it worse than that. I'm sure, with parent support, mindef will have no choice but to follow. my understanding is holiday camp is not the same as a military camp, no need to salute, no marching, no TOPO or weapon training, mostly you can do whatever you like, dont want to wake up also can....scout camp got all that including the decipline except they dont do weapon training.
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I believe we should be treated like that long ago.
Since our kids are treated better off? Are the Kids of the PRs treated better?
Of coz most people won't be dreaming of retiring in Singapore. You can ask the majority of the PRs.
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What is wrong if the Army treats your son better than they did you? I dont think that eating and sleeping better is going to make your son soft, it is the training that you should be looking at.and I trust your son is in good hands to becoming a man.
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Same generic argument that you keep hearing from people in lesser developed countries when they have to get into a mud fight with a far more developed one. People in Country X are too pampered and dont know how to fight unlike Country Y so all of Country X`s superior equipment and soldiers are nothing. Best of all, Country X`s troops are really cowards and will run from a fire-fight because they miss thier video games and hamburgers. The reality changes when the fight is ended and Country Y gets a major reality check and count thier losses. It is not that simple.
Training, competency and basic standards of accomodation are different things lah.By that contention, sailors on board ships must bath in sea-water. Or you carry WW2 food tin cans in your backpacks because they are heavier and more nostalgic. Or perhaps there is no need to stay in buildings. We should stay in tents all the way.
Hygiene is better. The quality of food is better. There is better equipment to train and equip themselves. Better training regimes. Greater morale. But when they go out to train, it is the same environment they face like thier fore-fathers years ago albiet with more complicated and dangerous scenarios. And frankly speaking, it will get better everywhere and in every country as these countries develop. But standards differ of course.
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Urgh..why the font in my 2nd para small leh? buggy
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eh how is scouts dragged into this? scouts also not slack one lor...
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Hey? TS? Do you know the responsiblitly of real scout? If not please check before posting anything stupid... Scout is really really gonna be well trainned, skills wise not lack current army standard..
That is provided "IF" you are comparing to the real elite scout.
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Scouts as in boys scouts or another type of scouts ?
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If TS is refering boy scouts (sec sch standard) ..
then LOL!!!!!
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Its the training that counts. I may have food and bed and what-have-you.
But BMT did toughen me up, through all the fucking I had.
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Maybe TS is refering to the olden days BMT where you are wacked up side down without knowing what actually when wrong.
sec comm can ask for all kinds of parades and when PC and CSM starts to come into the picture, it will be hell for the rest of the day.
But I notice they are not doing it now, as SAF are transforming into a 3G army, commanders are treating recruits with more respect (I think). Training and punishments are more structure and the objectives are well explained to the participants..
I am quite sure they are not throwing your stuff out of the window when they are doing room inspection now a day ....
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Although i not in army yet...But last time i in NCC...One of your Farked up Instructors from BMTC got posted to us....
During the night...Bunk inspection....He Kicked down all our lockers and threw our foam beds outta the window...He also asked us to change into no 4 from PT kit and asked us to take out our boots and put them together...
No 4 top...all put in one bunch...
Than he went beserk and kick all our stuff...Mixed all our boots....and our no 4 top and gave us 5 mins to find back everything and put it all together again...den after that...We change into our no 4 and he ordered us to run up and down from the bunk....And go pumping position....
AND i am expecting the same when i go in the ARMY....
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Its not a comparision....But i am just expecting the same....Treatment....And i roughly know how deep we are gonna be anal fucked...
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Ji beh...when your kid comes back with a permenant knee cap injury or a back injury then you will wonder whether NS should be made tougher or not. How many chaps i have seen who are able bodied but ended up damaging parts of their bodies during training.
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I find so many arguments abt "NSF now so soft, dunno whether can defend country or not," coupled with the "during my time, we were...."
No doubt, its a valid question to raise.
But an equally valid response/question is, "Could the older generation have defended the country?" Have they in anyway been involved in a direct confrontation or war that demonstrated their ability to do so? No offense to the lao jiaos really. NSF should respect the lao jiaos cos they were expected to accomplish the same task of national defense, with less sophisticated weapons, technology and tactics.
At the same time, I think the Lao Jiaos should also understand that, there IS a force multiplying role for hi-tech weaponry, tactics, and knowledge-based skills in today's warfare. Just look at self propelled motars and howitzers of today, compared to the man packed 120mm motars/ FH-88s of the 70s and 80s. So much more firepower can be layed down using computerized techniques such as MRSI that would have been a nightmare just to "imagine."We'll never really know whether any batch of our conscript armed force will be capable of national defence against an aggressor until they are actually called into the fields of battle.
And until then, as long as the SAF can maintain a level of military deterrence like what its doing, we should regard our roles as NSFs as "Mission Accomplished." -
Excuse me, you are implying that soldiers shouldn't be living in a good condtion and more trainings are needed for them? Wake up your idea. Yes indeed the living condition in camps are alot better than your previous old school days. Come'on what kind of generation are you living. Think about if you were going to serve NS in just few days time and it'll be for 2 years. Be prepared to forget everything else of what you have learn and forget about the news outside if you want yourself to be trained in your ideal poor condition. Do you want your son to be soft but smart minded rather to tough but brainless dudes. We are not living in old schools where people getting ill-treatment. Comparison with other countries, we have already been more well-trained. Think carefully before you split such questions. Wake up your idea, soldiers in singapore is already in a loss such as getting less informed about the world outside, technology etc.. While others are getting more capable to work outside if they are not spending the 2 years. You should be thinking that camps should have internet access, newspaper, computers, such devices to improve soldiers' knowledge. Omg you must be some old school parents.
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^ Cspau, you mp3 seller iz it? u sell handphone also?
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lol here u change the topic so far away from the question. yes i'm e one who sells mp4, but i don't sell phone. my fren might have the handphone you want, pls ask him urself http://sales365.blogspot.com
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Life has certainly gone easier like it or not. They no longer have to clean the cookhouse or empty the garbage bins. We had too. And our confinement during BMT was real confinement. Nowadays if there's PH, they can still book up. So much for confinement.
There was no verbal candy during our time either. All the vulgarities would come out. You fall flat while running, they'd F you up and you'd pick yourself up and continue running. Do that to NSFs these days and you'll probably get charged for abuse or something. I guess that has resulted in a mentally soft generation. I often baulk at botaks b*tching about how "siong" their training was and they'll proceed to explain to mummy about how they get shouted at for making mistakes. Hello? That's siong? When we made mistakes we got locker PT and change parades. A shout and 20 push ups and they whine that that's "siong"??
I'm not saying we should train our NSFs till they're on the verge of dying, but surely some form of mental toughness is required. On my very first night of BMT, we were made to run around the parade square. Most of us were not physically prepared and dropped like flies. Those who tried to help their buddies up got F-ed and the instructors would squat next to the fallen, rain verbal abuse on them till they crawled to their feet and continued running. Of course some may say that was torture but on hindsight, it made us tough mentally. We could take the verbal abuse and we would continue despite getting F-ed repeatedly. Subject today's kids to that kind of treatment and I guarantee you half the coy would cry on the spot and the complain to mummy during book out.
I still remember the female recruits from 7 Golf getting tekaned. They were doing push ups with their feet on their buddie's shoulders. The sh*t that they took would break today's boys I assure you. I'm fine with the better food and nice beds but the lack of mental toughness is worrying.
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Originally posted by sgf:
Life has certainly gone easier like it or not. They no longer have to clean the cookhouse or empty the garbage bins.
they don't??
wah lao.. we had to la. and i ORDed last year.
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@ CSpau
Thanks hor. You are very entrepreneurial. I used to be in business too. Sell vegetables in market long ago with my parents when I was small. still business lar.
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@ SGF
What talking you? Recruits are still being toughened or tekaned like nobody`s business. The infrastructure of the camps might have changed to reflect a rising standard of living and newer technologies but tekan sessions as per normal.
However, I am aware that PTIs and instructors are told to watch thier mouths when it comes to cursing so that they don`t overly do it; like cursing a recruit`s dead parents. Otherwise, status quo.Courtesy of my lil brother currently serving... stuffs still fly out of window when u go for run and come back everything is a mess. His instructor or " officially known as everyone`s tekan brudder" speaks tongues..expletives in 4 languages. You think parents complains get very far har. pity the recruit who got his parents involved..auto black sheep..instant fame..sure will know who.
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A tough NS may lead to excessive injuries and significant mental damage to the future workforce
A slack NS is viewed as a waste of time by both enlistees and the public.
Funny why no one looks at the alternative that eliminates these two complaints altogether.
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lol my friend told me he 1st day go in tekong the 3sg said, " ok gentlemen, i'll like to welcome you to Pulau Tekan, OOPS, i mean Tekong....."
LOL.. the rest u can well guess it..