Why SAR21 cannot underslung?
-
Why do we still have to use the M16/M203 IN SAR21 units?
-
Probably because the SAR21 Gl has problems with tradjactory for our combat environment. OR it's too expensive to make every section carry 1* 6 shot heavy AGL.
M16/M203 still a good weapon what. If it's not THAT broken dont need to fixed it...yet. -
Originally posted by CM06:
Probably? Or for sure?
Probably because the SAR21 Gl has problems with tradjactory for our combat environment.Originally posted by CM06:
I don't know about a 6-shot GL...
OR it's too expensive to make every section carry 1* 6 shot heavy AGL.
...but I don't think money is the problem why we don't issue SAR21 with GL. We like to mention money as a cause for problems we don't understand. Like I brought up the question of why the Ultimax drum was never issued for training and someone said "COST"!
I don't think it is cost, I think the SAR21 w/GL and the Ultimax drum not being issued for training means there might be techincal bugs with those systems.Originally posted by CM06:
Hehe, if by that token we don't need to replace the M16 either. Not broken wah...
M16/M203 still a good weapon what. If it's not THAT broken dont need to fixed it...yet.
Ever thought about the problem that the M16/M203 use a different magazine from the SAR21? That's a pretty serious problem don't you think? -
Does singapore use other own manufacture guns like SAR80 ??
Seems like they make it but never use... -
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Sar21-M203_FCC.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Sar21-LMG.JPG
Other versions exist but why they aren't in use by SAF, only SAF will know. Not cost effective? Got major flaws? God knows. -
I did so many underslungs with SAR21 in my unit.
-
Maybe the M16/M203 combo is there so that the SAW gunner has someone to kope magazines from when he runs out? And the Ultimax hasn't been replaced cuz the SAR-21 LMG has overheating problems. Not a very good reason I know but its the best I can think of.
Anyway, I would expect that the M16 will stick around for quite long. The whole army hasn't converted to SAR-21 yet, ditto for Navy and Airforce. -
There you go...Originally posted by sgf:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d5/Sar21-M203_FCC.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/fe/Sar21-LMG.JPG
Other versions exist but why they aren't in use by SAF, only SAF will know. Not cost effective? Got major flaws? God knows.
From the pictures above it looks very similar to any of our own SAF armskotes!
The wooden racks and the chain. Maybe they are in limited service or late stage testing by only certain units such as the RDF or Cdos. -
Actually doesn't look like any SAF armskote at all.Originally posted by tankee1981:There you go...
From the pictures above it looks very similar to any of our own SAF armskotes!
The wooden racks and the chain. Maybe they are in limited service or late stage testing by only certain units such as the RDF or Cdos.
All SAF armskote from recruit until reservist the weapons are placed horizontally, never verticallly. Cos all the oil will flow into the backside.
Furthermore, these weapons are brand new.
I know SAR21/M203 exists, from all the photos you can find on the internet, just like the Ultimax drum.
But why never issue? Must be problematic, fragile, unreliable or something.
...
The SAR-21 LMG is very worrying. Are they gonna replace Ultimax?
I know they must be trying, cos SAF always LOVE to standardise. Now so many different weapon types, different magazines etc like rojak. -
Funny, my NS days from Recruit to ORD, all the armskote weapons are stored vertically NEVER horizontally.Originally posted by chino65:Actually doesn't look like any SAF armskote at all.
All SAF armskote from recruit until reservist the weapons are placed horizontally, never verticallly. Cos all the oil will flow into the backside.
in fact, newer units use the archiving filing cabinets (those with rails and moveable) to save space.
the only unit i encounter that stores their weapons horizontally is Shooting Contingent, and thats only because their weapons are going permanent storage.
other units that i know storing their weapons horizontally.....
MORTAR,
ARTY guns
F-16s
Frigates,
Corvettes -
Concur. However pistols I saw them in a metal boxOriginally posted by Ponders:Funny, my NS days from Recruit to ORD, all the armskote weapons are stored vertically NEVER horizontally.
in fact, newer units use the archiving filing cabinets (those with rails and moveable) to save space.
the only unit i encounter that stores their weapons horizontally is Shooting Contingent, and thats only because their weapons are going permanent storage.
other units that i know storing their weapons horizontally.....
MORTAR,
ARTY guns
F-16s
Frigates,
Corvettes
-
No man, all the armscote I been in were horizontal. All weapons, including GPMG were stored horizontally. The support company 84 also horizontal.Originally posted by Ponders:Funny, my NS days from Recruit to ORD, all the armskote weapons are stored vertically NEVER horizontally.
NEVER, NOT ONE TIME, did I see one armscote that store weapons vertically.
BTW, my time still M16, just in case we are talking about different rifle. -
Mine was mixed.
-
Eh, maybe you guys are from the way way old days.
Even in my unit, we hard racks like this to store our rifles. -
Did my BMT at 3 BTS at Nee Soon. Always kena arrow to help armskoteman. Super confirm that the M16 were VERTICAL. When I was posted to unit I didn't go armskote that often 'cos was downgraded to C2 but I do recall the M16s were also vertical 'cos I kena the stupid COC parade before ORD.
Anyway, talking about standardisation, if SAF really wants to standardise why are some units still using M16? I'm no war strategist but this is a scenario from a non-combat serviceman's view.
Imagine war breaks out & chaos rules. You find yourself, a reservist armed with M16, running out of ammo or totally flat out. You come across a dead friendly who has ammo BUT he's packing a SAR-21. What are you gonna do? Unload all his rounds from his SAR-21 mags & reload into your M16 mags and pray no enemy finds you till you're done? No point asking me to grab his SAR-21 'cos I don't know how to use the damn thing let alone clear an IA on it.
At least with the same rifle type, if I'm out of ammo and I come across a dead friendly, I can simply grab his mags and am ready to go. Ok let's not talk about ethics and military law and what not lah. When war breaks out and your life is at stake, screw everything.
I will NOT steal ammo from an injured friendly 'cos he still needs to defend himself but I have no qualms about stealing ammo and just about anything useful from a friendly who's as dead as a door knob.
The Belgian FN F2000 uses the same mag as M16. Why couldn't they design the SAR-21 to at least use M16 mags too? -
On Tekong M16s were stored vertically. In armskotes elsewhere I saw rifles (SAR-21s and M16s) and SAWs on horizontal racks. It really depends on the layout of the armskote in question, so no one is wrong.
-
what's the big diff in clearing IA in SAR21 and M16?
it's the same shit, just take out mag, cock a few times and reload and fire. same for all rifles
just that the cocking handle and the magazine release are in different areas. -
now i think back... and recalled during my unit days..
ya.. the SAR 21s were stored vertically....
the M-203, M16s were stored horizontally on black racks... -
Maybe depends on each individual unit. Anyway has anyone seen how the P226s are stored? everytime I see them thrown into a pile (with their magazines) into a small metal box)Originally posted by Ponders:now i think back... and recalled during my unit days..
ya.. the SAR 21s were stored vertically....
the M-203, M16s were stored horizontally on black racks... -
You can figure out pretty fast. Like firing a FiveseveN is no dfferent from firing the P226.Originally posted by sgf:Did my BMT at 3 BTS at Nee Soon. Always kena arrow to help armskoteman. Super confirm that the M16 were VERTICAL. When I was posted to unit I didn't go armskote that often 'cos was downgraded to C2 but I do recall the M16s were also vertical 'cos I kena the stupid COC parade before ORD.
Anyway, talking about standardisation, if SAF really wants to standardise why are some units still using M16? I'm no war strategist but this is a scenario from a non-combat serviceman's view.
Imagine war breaks out & chaos rules. You find yourself, a reservist armed with M16, running out of ammo or totally flat out. You come across a dead friendly who has ammo BUT he's packing a SAR-21. What are you gonna do? Unload all his rounds from his SAR-21 mags & reload into your M16 mags and pray no enemy finds you till you're done? No point asking me to grab his SAR-21 'cos I don't know how to use the damn thing let alone clear an IA on it.
At least with the same rifle type, if I'm out of ammo and I come across a dead friendly, I can simply grab his mags and am ready to go. Ok let's not talk about ethics and military law and what not lah. When war breaks out and your life is at stake, screw everything.
I will NOT steal ammo from an injured friendly 'cos he still needs to defend himself but I have no qualms about stealing ammo and just about anything useful from a friendly who's as dead as a door knob.
The Belgian FN F2000 uses the same mag as M16. Why couldn't they design the SAR-21 to at least use M16 mags too? -
All SAF armskote from recruit until reservist the weapons are placed horizontally, never verticallly. Cos all the oil will flow into the backside.
I was an armskote spec (sian job) in BMTC... weapons were stored vertically.
And of course when I was in unit they did the same as well, plus some horziontal mixed in... it depends on what kind of racks you happen to get I suppose... -
there's a version of sar21 that can use stanag (m16) mags too rite? why doesnt the army use that one? . make stuff easier for everyone. or is there some problem with this "export - stanag mag sar21" ?
