Best Choice for USMC Infantry Automatic Rifle (IAR)?
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That's not really possible is it?Originally posted by tankee1981:How about a 7.62mm Ultimax? Best of both worlds! Only obvious problem is the additional weight of carrying the bigger rounds and a larger weapon perhaps?
7.62mm calibre means everything becomes bigger and heavier.
Even longer receiver to make constant recoil for 7.62 possible.
Plus if you continue to want to put 100rds in a drum magazine, it would be a huge mag and weigh a ton.
Best of both world is not really possible. Otherwise they would've done it. -
The rounds fragments, but they have sufficent energy to put you out of the fight if you catch them behind it... you need at least two of these slabs to be reasonably safe.Originally posted by Shotgun:Does the 5.56 round penetrate the concrete slab as a an entire round? I know it breaks it in a shot or 2. But penetrating outright.... ?
Bricks absorb the fragments pretty well, hence a lot safer to be behind.
But then again you must realize the GPMG NATO 7.62mm round has a LOT more energy then the 5.56mm... in fact it has a LOT more energy then the 7.62mm AK round to begin with... the problem is that there is so much more recoil generated by the round that it makes good rapid shooting at a distance difficult, as proven with the M-14.
With the 5.56mm you can keep up a good volume of reasonably precise fire at range without needing to constantly correct. The NATO 7.62mm is a powerful round, but unless you are firing it from a GPMG it's not really something that you want to shoot from the AR format of small arms unless it is in single shots, suppressive fire will be a lot less effective as it will simply go all over the place. -
Once again no best of two worlds... thou if i wanted stopping power i would go for a shotgun firing alternating loads of pellets and slugs. 7.62mm has good terminal ballistics but the 5.56mm can punch above its weight class if it fragments as well... all in all I wouldn't mind going for the 5.56mm still, and keeping a semiauto shotgun for close encounters.
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Btw, which country country forces are these? In one of the pics they show this black colour rectangular stuff attached to the opening of the drum mag. Is this the so called special aid needed to overcome the high resistance of the spring in the drum mag?
http://www.gun-world.net/singapore/ultimax/conf.htm
bandolieer for 4 drum mags -
7.62mm Ultimax? the closest thing to it is the Bren light machine gun. .
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Yes, I do think this is the drum loader attachement.
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Its a pity that such drums are not issued to us during training. Any reason why?
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I've heard rumors that they're issued for Operations. Not for training cos its a hassle to reload.
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Well since its a hassle to reload then all the more we need the practice during training right?
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read more here
http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=853
1.US guys improve the SAW:must read
....The Ultimax 100's designer, James Sullivan, was commissioned by the Singapore government to design the weapon in the late 1970s. Sullivan, a living legend in the world of small arms, was also the lead engineer on many famous firearms projects including the M-16 (he designed the AR-15 for Eugene Stoner which was derived from Stoner's AR-10), Ruger Mini-14, the C-Mag, and many others.
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In 2003, ADM CEO Vincent DeNiro and ADM Chief Engineer, Brian Vuksanovich developed a removable magazine well which allows the use of standard M-16 magazines (C-Mags, etc.) as well adding new features which evolved into the Ultimax 100 MK4. These new features, which makes the weapon U.S. and NATO compliant are; removable magazine well, M-16 barrel thread, M-16 flashider, Multiple P-Rail front grip (for adding lights, lasers, grips, etc.), as well as features from the Ultimax 2000 including P-rail on top of the receiver, new rear grip, folding stock, and removable grip assembly. The removable grip assembly has been modified by ADM from a cross bolt selector to a rotating selector with different firing options such as safe, semi-auto, 3-round burst, and full-auto. Both the MK3 and MK4 versions of the Ultimax 100 are available and the M-16 magazine adapter can be included with the MK3 as an accessory. Countries such as Croatia, which cherish their older Ultimax 100 MK2s, can also use the M-16 magazine adapter.
http://www.ultimaxsaw.com/History.html
http://www.harrisoutdoorgroup.com/specialweaponsback.html
where U 1oo Mk4 as cover story..
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Any SAW gunners here? Frankly, I feel the most problematic issue with small arms issued in the SAF is that often there is a bloody cartridge pouch velcroed/strapped to the weapon. The way I see it, its due to the fact that during the cartridge ejection process, there is possibility for the ejected cartridge to eject,hit the wall of the cartridge pouch and rebound with the likelihood of having parts of it stuck in the ejector port. Also, I realise that the SAF's blanks are actually made of some form of plastic and not a metal like the regular rounds, as we all know the characteristic of plastic to deform when under heat stress and also the violent movement of the BCG cycling all add to the high unreliability of the 5.56X45mm small arms. Correct me if I'm wrong that such issues are less for weapons such as the .50 or 7.62 GPMG.
IAR issue wise, I would feel that its over-hyped. The only thing that is good about the system is that just about any US Military trained service personnel can handle it due to their familiarity with the standard M16/M4 series of weapons. And as the IAR is targetted at the USMC, it must be remembered that the USMC's core believe is that every Marine is a rifleman first before any other speciality he/she may be assigned. As such, the familiarity and ease of operator usage is a serious advantage as any Marine can pick the weapon up and easily be transformed to a SAW gunner in a matter of seconds.
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Yeah, those black plastic blanks are only used in the assault rifles and only comes in the 5.56 flavor. The 7.62 and above blanks are all brass.
Does the blanks jam a lot? Yes. But mainly due to insufficient pressure to fully cycle the weapon even with a blank attachment. You'll get play with them a lot soon too... but you're regret it.
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Then you get to practice your IA drill more often :) Become instinctive so that you can clear misfire/jam/no-feeding and etc even in the dark with confidence.
Every important skill to posses in a real fire-fight.
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Cannot make it lah Ultimax 100..... Not for the marines.
Mechanically the weapon is superb. Shoots well and really light.
But any SAW gunners out there will tell you the weapon due to the sheet metal stamping construction rusts. The weapon rust so easily even with mulitple cleaning and lots of oiling once it is carried out to the field the weapon becomes rusty. Remember those time doing river corssing at WET GAP. We SAW gunners practically have to use a can of WD40 to remove the rust on the weapon. From the Bipods to the internal of the receiver. RUST RUST RUST!!!!!
The marines comes into contact with salt water most of the time. Even the expeditionary force is base out in the seas most of the time. The salt in the sea air will be bad enough.
CANNOT MAKE IT LAH!!!!
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Originally posted by Tancold:
Cannot make it lah Ultimax 100..... Not for the marines.
Mechanically the weapon is superb. Shoots well and really light.
But any SAW gunners out there will tell you the weapon due to the sheet metal stamping construction rusts. The weapon rust so easily even with mulitple cleaning and lots of oiling once it is carried out to the field the weapon becomes rusty. Remember those time doing river corssing at WET GAP. We SAW gunners practically have to use a can of WD40 to remove the rust on the weapon. From the Bipods to the internal of the receiver. RUST RUST RUST!!!!!
The marines comes into contact with salt water most of the time. Even the expeditionary force is base out in the seas most of the time. The salt in the sea air will be bad enough.
CANNOT MAKE IT LAH!!!!
Tancold - that is not true !!!
In fact all weapons - are extremely sensitive to sea water. Even M-16 also have the same problem if you face with sea condition.
For units that operates often in sea - their weapons is pre-treated with a dark coating.
that is a very effective, i have handle both not -coated and coated M-16 - can tell you it make a whole world of different.
So what you mention actually happen to all rifles, but can easily be solved. -
Actually hor, the M-16 and just about quite a bit of other weapons are also sheet-stamped constructed... I don't think sheet-stamping makes something more prone to rust or not, it's how you treat the finishing in the end.
And yeah actually rust would be one of the first things anybody would think about. The Ultimax would not have made it that far in the contest if such a basic thing hadn't been covered.
ALSO, it is good to note that the weapons commonly used for training during NS are not fresh warstock, hence they can be rather old weapons with their protective coating already quite worn down... this is especially true when you are in a school like BMTC or SISPEC, where the weapons are at the end of the their useful life.
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:...the weapons commonly used for training during NS are not fresh warstock, hence they can be rather old weapons with their protective coating already quite worn down...
Understatement of the year
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haha well sad, actually the stuff we have at BMTC and other training schools are so old that only way to continue working is careful and regular maintenance. Thats why it is drilled into all of us that our weapons are important and constant care and maintenance is important. well good thing is, it drills into us the importance of weapon care, so when we ever get our fresh stock, the habits carry over.
Well i would still say that the SAW is one of the best weapons i ever got to see in action. During exercises, it is possible for a SAW gunner to fire on the move, something you definitely can't do with the GPMG :P i know cuz i fired the gpmg before. definitely a huge force multiplier
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Originally posted by storywolf:
Tancold - that is not true !!!
In fact all weapons - are extremely sensitive to sea water. Even M-16 also have the same problem if you face with sea condition.
For units that operates often in sea - their weapons is pre-treated with a dark coating.
that is a very effective, i have handle both not -coated and coated M-16 - can tell you it make a whole world of different.
So what you mention actually happen to all rifles, but can easily be solved.
Ya.... I 'm just being bias. Must be all those hours or cleaning and oiling.Maybe they were the earlier ones, the Mk I and II's. You can see all the tack welds on the sheet metal body. Not much of anodising left or if there was any at all in the first place.
Other then the cleaning issues... the weapon is a thrill to fire. And with the older weapons where there is no selector switch (heard there are 3 round burst) you turn the gas regulator to the the lowest you are able to squeeze of 1 or 2 rounds. Which make shooting really accurate. Almost 100% on target.
Not bad for a LMG.
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Originally posted by aikchongtan:
Then you get to practice your IA drill more often :) Become instinctive so that you can clear misfire/jam/no-feeding and etc even in the dark with confidence.
Every important skill to posses in a real fire-fight.
Yes I agree that it does provide training for IA drills, but...I tink also abit unrealistic right? wah lan...I ever had rounds that tio caught in between the BCG and ejector port wall so bad, the centre portion of the plastic cartridge was crushed. don't suppose u get those with regular rounds.
Talking bout rusting issues with the U100, is that the reason why I saw during one of the AOH, the SOF exhibited a MP5 Marine and the SOF trooper explained that the MP5 Marine is 100% identical to the MP5, just that its got some special coating to prevent saltwater corrosion. M16 wise, I read that its barrel and chamber has got chrome plating. Perhaps we can do the same for the U100?
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Units do use the drum mag, and you dun really need the load attachment to reload, although it is pretty tiring for the men.
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M16 upper and lower receivers are aluminum and will not rust.
Barrel, bolt & some other parts are steel - these will rust.
U100 receivers are stamped sheet steel & these will rust.