Discuss ways to attack and defend singapore
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And the perennial Causeway bashing continues.
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*Offensive post deleted
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lol in the end ....it come to this....can we just lock it whenever this kind of topic came up.....for what ever reason (rational) you can spit every time some one want to discuss this kind of topic...there will always a dufest to derail it.
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flame here flame there wads the use?
most important is not who is better, but rather is that both sides dont fight at all, wont that be better?
and even if something, it isnt the stronger that matters, but rather the winner at the end of the day.
the issue of "who is stronger/better" isnt really relevant, for both sides have the guns, and these guns are going to cause death, death if we ever figt.
so let's try to evaluate the (limited) information that we have in a reasonsable and rational way, and try not to allow flying trash to cloud our already cloudy conclusions that we have drawn from the (limited) information we have.
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i am not against this topic of how to attack and defend singapore, but rather i feel that we should try to have our replys to stuff supported with other evidence...i would be interested to know more too.
milnuts is milnuts though... -
PARITY??? dont make me laugh lah.... new year leh... still we find such naive neighbours......Originally posted by rooki:What is the difference anyway? Both of them are human beings who wield power over their respective countries. Or are you saying you really believe in the bull that is the ST saying Singapore ministers are on-so-incorruptible-but-only-if-paid-astronomical-salaries?
Please. At least Singapore Tyrannosaur has acknowledged the parity of the SAF and MAF, unlike you who seem stuck in the well of propaganda still shouting
RAWR SINGAPOUR FTW!!!!111one
tell me.... 350 amx-13 vs 26 scorpion.. is that parity?
132 leopard 2 tanks vs 48 PT-91... is that parity?
20 apache vs 0 attack helicopter... like that also parity?
tyrano is just being courteous lah.... you really think singapore would ever accept parity with MAF??? you wait long long....
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The MAF is a vital component of regional security in ASEAN.
Let's not forget that amidst all this pissing contest. -
vital component? you kidding me right???Originally posted by LazerLordz:The MAF is a vital component of regional security in ASEAN.
Let's not forget that amidst all this pissing contest.
who you expect them to challenge on ASEAN behalf?? PRC? japan? russia? maybe india or USA?
just be thankful.. their MAF dont end up shooting their own people... which is their only proven "combat" record thus far.... machine gun defenceless malaysian chinese shops.. as if the chinese shop gonna return fire with sacks of rice or pork meat tin can at them like cannon balls.....
their other "combat" record... routed by unarmed hungry pigs.... during the nipah virus outbreak was even less then glamorous.....
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I'm always amused at the lack of unconventional strategic thought in this place.
Think NTS, think presence and not first-tier deterrance. Think of nodal security as opposed to pissing contests. It is not always a two-horse race in ASEAN. The groundswell and the policymakers share different opinions and views with regards to national rivalry in terms of traditional security forces/doctrine, that I can say with a fair amount of confidence.
The MAF is not meant for head on assaults. It is however, still a cog in the regional security architecture, despite how many people want to think. Every SEA military force is a cog, don't forget.
Oh wait, it's harder to fantasise about them being smacked in such a debate isn't it. Not when your debate points consist of aged anecdotal crap like luncheon meat blasters. -
Lol, what cog? You mean SAF is a cog of your so called common regional security architecture? sounds funny, being such a cog, obviously you are obliged to fulfill your cog role, isnÂ’t it? So, when our good neighbor wants to fight in Spratly for the oil greed, the cogged RSAF is liable to send in F15 to fight as well, isnÂ’t it? Siao, for a neighbor even doesnÂ’t want to supply water, whatÂ’s the point for you to fight for its greed of oil?!
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Such unconventional cog fantasy is always amusing.Originally posted by LazerLordz:I'm always amused at the lack of unconventional strategic thought in this place.
Think NTS, think presence and not first-tier deterrance. Think of nodal security as opposed to pissing contests. It is not always a two-horse race in ASEAN. The groundswell and the policymakers share different opinions and views with regards to national rivalry in terms of traditional security forces/doctrine, that I can say with a fair amount of confidence.
The MAF is not meant for head on assaults. It is however, still a cog in the regional security architecture, despite how many people want to think. Every SEA military force is a cog, don't forget.
Oh wait, it's harder to fantasise about them being smacked in such a debate isn't it. Not when your debate points consist of aged anecdotal crap like luncheon meat blasters. 
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brother.... MAF leh.... malaysia leh.... the last people on this planet you can trust......Originally posted by LazerLordz:I'm always amused at the lack of unconventional strategic thought in this place.
Think NTS, think presence and not first-tier deterrance. Think of nodal security as opposed to pissing contests. It is not always a two-horse race in ASEAN. The groundswell and the policymakers share different opinions and views with regards to national rivalry in terms of traditional security forces/doctrine, that I can say with a fair amount of confidence.
The MAF is not meant for head on assaults. It is however, still a cog in the regional security architecture, despite how many people want to think. Every SEA military force is a cog, don't forget.
Oh wait, it's harder to fantasise about them being smacked in such a debate isn't it. Not when your debate points consist of aged anecdotal crap like luncheon meat blasters.
look at the railway, water, pedra branca, CLOB and dozens of other disputes they have with us.... which time they never lie? which time they never break their words???
you expect them to stand with us? come on.... i will rather stand next to a dog then next to their soldier.... even the dogs are more dependable and trustworthy then they can ever be.....
you just pray hard hard.... that COG will not end up betraying us and the region... i wont be surprised if they backstab us on the first opportunity they have.....
if there is any major serious war... we should remove the deceitful malaysia, round up their soldiers and use them for live meat bomb(without parachute) on our enemies... -
I said my piece.
Up to you chaps lah..
Happy Neue Jahre to all.
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Woah, lets be a bit more politically correct shall we?Originally posted by tripwire:brother.... MAF leh.... malaysia leh.... the last people on this planet you can trust......
look at the railway, water, pedra branca, CLOB and dozens of other disputes they have with us.... which time they never lie? which time they never break their words???
you expect them to stand with us? come on.... i will rather stand next to a dog then next to their soldier.... even the dogs are more dependable and trustworthy then they can ever be.....
you just pray hard hard.... that COG will not end up betraying us and the region... i wont be surprised if they backstab us on the first opportunity they have.....
if there is any major serious war... we should remove the deceitful malaysia, round up their soldiers and use them for live meat bomb(without parachute) on our enemies...
A lot of younger forumers use this forums as well, and we really don't wanna build up this kinda political insensitivity towards our neighbors.
Fully agree that SAF wants to keep a clear military advantage in the region. Fortunately for us, its not a very tedious task to stay ahead in terms of hi-tech warfare while maintaining numerical superiority.
The only reason why the MAF, or rather that country is not ahead of Singapore as it should be, is due to really questionable affirmative action policies by their government. -
Political insensitivity? Perhaps, if we were dealing with civilized human beings, we would be inclined to show some restraint against building such animosity, but this are Malaysians. They are less than animals, and we can do anything to such creatures.Originally posted by Shotgun:Woah, lets be a bit more politically correct shall we?
A lot of younger forumers use this forums as well, and we really don't wanna build up this kinda political insensitivity towards our neighbors.
Fully agree that SAF wants to keep a clear military advantage in the region. Fortunately for us, its not a very tedious task to stay ahead in terms of hi-tech warfare while maintaining numerical superiority.
The only reason why the MAF, or rather that country is not ahead of Singapore as it should be, is due to really questionable affirmative action policies by their government.
These "people" (a title they hardly deserve) already treat us with little regard for our sensitivities. So to hell with taking theirs into account. We should be teaching our young to hate and fear Malaysia from the day they are born, any sign of empathy or compassion will be taken as weakness and exploited by them. They are by nature lying and deceitful, and we must educate Singaporeans to be on guard with regards to these snakes. -
They are so near and so close to us. For years we have been trying to work with them to build the trust and strengthen the bond between the two nations. We have been the largest investor in Malaysia for many years, we tried win-win approach with the Johore-Singapore-Bataam growth triangle, many singaporean companies heeded the call of our government to move their factories to Johore, many singaporean bought properties in malaysia.....what have we learnt?Originally posted by LazerLordz:I said my piece.
Up to you chaps lah..
Happy Neue Jahre to all.
Individual singaporeans' money were swindled in CLOB, those who invested money in properties either never have the properties or forced to spend all the rents they received in malaysia when they disallowed remittance of ringgits outside malaysia. Singaporean companies in johore were forced to ship their cargo via port klang and later pelapas when barriers were put up at the causeway for the singapore bound lorries. On a larger scale, sea port and airport in johore were built to take away business from Singapore. May be this is business, you may argue, "which businessman doesn't cheat to protect themselves"? But we don't have to pretend we don't know, do we?
On relationship, singaporeans were accused of jamming up and polluting their city, buying their water resources at dirt cheap price, .....to the extent they wanted to skin us alive like cats. Petra Blanca is another episode they are trying, if successful, tekong and ubin might be their next targets.
In the history of independent Singapore, has Malaysia ever stand along side Singapore in any aspect of relationship, besides all the wayang at the ASEAN, APEC....?
You said your piece with your head buried in the sand. In reality there is too much for you to face. -
It is because of a lot of younger forumers in this forum that the truth need to be revealed. Who are the politician here, that we need to be politically correct? and what is political correct? correct in whose opinion?Originally posted by Shotgun:Woah, lets be a bit more politically correct shall we?
A lot of younger forumers use this forums as well, and we really don't wanna build up this kinda political insensitivity towards our neighbors.
Fully agree that SAF wants to keep a clear military advantage in the region. Fortunately for us, its not a very tedious task to stay ahead in terms of hi-tech warfare while maintaining numerical superiority.
The only reason why the MAF, or rather that country is not ahead of Singapore as it should be, is due to really questionable affirmative action policies by their government.
From a military point of view, we should always have a clear idea of who our most likely enemies are and be prepared for the possible scenarios. You trust the politicians in military planning? I don't. -
Delta you've reached a new low. people here have been chanting all sorts of things, pro israeli garbage, anti arab, anti malay, anti iranian, anti russian, anti pakistani and anti what not garbage. even anti PRC garbage.
but freedom of speech was supposedly going to reign supreme until wait, i spoke the truth about singapore being an indefensible tiny midget, and my posts got deleted eh? -
And your stuff wasn't garbage?Originally posted by protonhybrid:Delta you've reached a new low. people here have been chanting all sorts of things, pro israeli garbage, anti arab, anti malay, anti iranian, anti russian, anti pakistani and anti what not garbage. even anti PRC garbage.
but freedom of speech was supposedly going to reign supreme until wait, i spoke the truth about singapore being an indefensible tiny midget, and my posts got deleted eh?
I think it's high time this thread be closed since it has become another bashing thread.We would be stooping to the same level as those politician across the causeway. -
I would agree with you to a certain extent. The trip to Navy gave me a different opinion.Originally posted by specialOps:Your reply sound as though you're very learnt, but you're not.
Diplomacy works with deterrence. Our diplomacy policy is not a yes-yes-please-do-not-attack kind. It is the kind...we want peace, we are interested to help each other, but if you want to be funny, I'll make u pay.
Singapore's defence policy has NEVER been dependent on rallying support from anybody, not even the US. The US's presence is welcomed, to counter and balance other superpower's influence and ideology, but is NOT a defence-support factor at all.
In MINDEF's doctrine, it has never ever considered rallying help or "tahan" until someone come and rescue...its never been like that - as proven by why we took NS as a top nation-building priority even when our country was poor, we knew we could not rely on anybody.
Take a look at the defence build up, take a look comparatively, why we maintain a numerical, technological and capability, in multiples of superiority, not just a minor edge...because it is designed to crush any adversary totally.
Think about why we showcase our weapons, technology and why ministers make certain speeches and publicise that we're a deterrent force, but also a decisive force which will not hesitate to 'defend' (actually attack).
Think about it...u'll realise ur diplomacy-shit is ignorant and foolish, and inconsistent with real life facts.
It is also not true that we're not capable....you do not know what u're talking about...
I'm not saying this in hyper-patriotic mode, but as a matter of fact, many of us here who serve in certain units and vocations have seen the SAF in actual rehearsed exercise, that we're more than capable of a full-scale, combined arms, combined-service war, not in defence mode, but in full-scale assault and we're well-rehearsed and very ready...more ready than our potential adversaries.
Again think about our mobilisation - proven, we can mobilise more troops faster and arm/equip them real fast. Hardware - numerical and technological advantage. Communications, Command, Control, Weapon systems - everything more than capable.
Think again...u think we spend money just to "tahan" and wait for rescue? Use ur brain.
But... our strengths is our weakness as well. Technology breakthroughs is still much relied on other countries' research. We only improve on their breakthroughs.
We are very short on manpower and relied on technology to overcome the manpower shortage.
One thing about technology is that although it can do wonders, I can guarantee you that idiots (literally idiots, not any smarty trying to bypass something) will probably in their own stupid ways bypass the technology.
And technology can be broken. Technology main weakness is that it relies on infrastructure. Once the infrastructure is gone, there's nothing to talk about. You will be back to paper and pen days.
There's an email circulating that Russians used pencils to write in space while the US struggled to invent a pen that could be used in space. The idea it's trying to bring across is more than just simplicity does it... but it also shows how a person with a simple mind can be very destructive in the right situation.
We can have the best... but there's no way to defend against stupidity, which can sometimes be very destructive if the environment and situation is right. -
Again you confuse bilateral relationships with multilateral arenas of interaction and CBMs.Originally posted by sgdiehard:They are so near and so close to us. For years we have been trying to work with them to build the trust and strengthen the bond between the two nations. We have been the largest investor in Malaysia for many years, we tried win-win approach with the Johore-Singapore-Bataam growth triangle, many singaporean companies heeded the call of our government to move their factories to Johore, many singaporean bought properties in malaysia.....what have we learnt?
Individual singaporeans' money were swindled in CLOB, those who invested money in properties either never have the properties or forced to spend all the rents they received in malaysia when they disallowed remittance of ringgits outside malaysia. Singaporean companies in johore were forced to ship their cargo via port klang and later pelapas when barriers were put up at the causeway for the singapore bound lorries. On a larger scale, sea port and airport in johore were built to take away business from Singapore. May be this is business, you may argue, "which businessman doesn't cheat to protect themselves"? But we don't have to pretend we don't know, do we?
On relationship, singaporeans were accused of jamming up and polluting their city, buying their water resources at dirt cheap price, .....to the extent they wanted to skin us alive like cats. Petra Blanca is another episode they are trying, if successful, tekong and ubin might be their next targets.
In the history of independent Singapore, has Malaysia ever stand along side Singapore in any aspect of relationship, besides all the wayang at the ASEAN, APEC....?
You said your piece with your head buried in the sand. In reality there is too much for you to face.
I have nothing more to say to you unless you can understand the difference between those two. -
Several people have spoken of our mistrust in Malaysia, tell us what we don't know. Besides the classroom and academic stuff for passing exam, is there anything else to say?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Again you confuse bilateral relationships with multilateral arenas of interaction and CBMs.
I have nothing more to say to you unless you can understand the difference between those two.
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*Thread closed as per fellow forumites' requests -
If you choose to limit your view to those that agree with yours, it's your own loss eventually.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Several people have spoken of our mistrust in Malaysia, tell us what we don't know. Besides the classroom and academic stuff for passing exam, is there anything else to say?