Malaysia weighs Boeing, Sukhoi bids for next fighter deal
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DATE:06/12/07
SOURCE:Flight International
Malaysia weighs Boeing, Sukhoi bids for next fighter deal
By Siva Govindasamy
Malaysia is expected to choose between a second batch of Sukhoi Su-30MKMs or Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornets for its next fighter purchase, with industry sources saying both types have their supporters within the nation's defence establishment.
The procurement process is unlikely to begin until the Malaysian government has called a general election, scheduled for 2009 but widely expected next year. A decision on new fighters must be made around the end of 2008 in order to secure funding during Kuala Lumpur's 2011-15 five-year plan, with deliveries expected from 2011.
Malaysia already has 18 Su-30MKMs on order, with six scheduled for delivery by year-end and the remainder to follow in 2008, ahead of its first squadron becoming combat-ready by early 2009. The type is considered favourite for the new fighter deal, with senior air force officers believed to be backing a follow-on order for another 18, which they say will allow the service to eventually operate a single fighter type, cut expenses and increase overall combat potential.
But some quarters are sceptical about the reliability of Russian equipment. Malaysia suffered problems with its earlier batch of 16 RSK MiG-29Ns, and Malaysian pilots involved in the Su-30MKM programme say additional work needs to be done to integrate French, German, Indian and Russian equipment with the new aircraft.
Industry sources say the Super Hornet is more popular in the defence ministry, as its cost is similar to the Su-30MKM, while Australia's recent order for 24 F/A-18Fs has boosted the type's export credibility. Boeing has not made a formal presentation to the Malaysian government, but will offer the Super Hornet if it moves forward with the project.
Kuala Lumpur's immediate procurement priorities are for new utility helicopters, airborne early warning and control and maritime patrol aircraft, so it could instead opt to upgrade its eight F/A-18Ds and MiG-29Ns, which have at least six years of life left without modification.
"Fighters are not an immediate requirement," says one industry official. "Malaysia must live up to its commitment to monitor the waters around it, especially the Malacca Straits." This need has taken on added urgency following recent AEW&C and MPA procurements by Singapore and Thailand, the source adds.
ATSC announced during the LIMA air show in Langkawi that it has renewed a contract to provide maintenance services for Malaysia's MiG-29s, and signed a new agreement to provide similar services for the Su-30MKM. Cobham also announced the receipt of an order to provide buddy-buddy refuelling systems for use by the latter type.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/12/06/220117/malaysia-weighs-boeing-sukhoi-bids-for-next-fighter.html -
Most probably, KL will select both types rather than just shortlist the preference to just 1 type.
No doubt KL's 'Look-Russian' hardware viewpoint is of not putting all their eggs in a single basket (solely US-made types), but by going solely for only SU-30MKMs or even coupled with the possible acquisition of Mi-17 to replace the Nuri, meant that KL will just transfer their eggs from one basket (US) to another (Russia).
Therefore, no doubt the Flanker maintenance record leaves much to be desired or even the continual systems intergration problems still not addressed, the Flanker's capability may convince KL that it is the best counter to the RSAF Eagles or even to the Lightning II. So, I believe that more Flankers may be procured here to replace the remaining MiG-29 fleet; and the F/A-18Fs (after swapping the Ds with Boeing) will be procured too to permit them to set up at least 1 squadron of Rhinos for the maritime strike role and to create an 'invisible threat' to Sing's SLOC. -
LoL. It seems like they STILL have problems with the Su-30's avionics "suite/rojak."
The best and worst thing they can do is to opt for the superbugs. Then the questions will come up again...
"I thought Dr M last time say amelican fighter cannot bomb? No source code"
"If the F/A-18E really so good, den why we buy Su-30 in the first place?"
*taps fingers... waits for Su-30 scandal...* -
sukhoi again for sure lah ..... they'll take palm oil mah ...
somemore maybe can send second space tourist into space also .. -
they are cutting cost which is why the selection of either 1 of them.......
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Why can't they just standardise on one aircraft type? After all both Su-30MKM and the F/A-18E/F are designed to be multi-role combat aircraft.
Theoretically, if order in sufficient numbers of a particular good, can ask for discounts which results in lower cost per good. Having one aircraft type can minimise logistics as well.
Just don't understand what is their rational for doing what they have been doing all along. -
DATE:11/12/07
SOURCE:Flight International
Boeing and Sukhoi go head to head in Malaysian contest
By Siva Govindasamy
Malaysia is expected to shorten its list of contenders for a utility helicopter requirement from four to two in January, with the winner likely to be announced by mid-2008.
The AgustaWestland AW101 (formerly EH101), Eurocopter EC725, Sikorsky S-92 and a Russian helicopter, most likely the Mil Mi-17, are competing to replace Malaysia's more than 20 Sikorsky S-61 Nuri helicopters.
Kuala Lumpur is expected to order 12 aircraft initially, although this could eventually rise to 48. The successful bidder could also be asked to provide helicopters for an army utility requirement, say industry sources.
The rotorcraft, which will also be used for search and rescue operations, should be able to transport around 20 personnel and perform both day and night operations, according to Royal Malaysian Air Force requirements. The aircraft should also have a glass cockpit, retractable landing gear and foldable rotor blades.
The tender has been on the cards since 2004 and S-61 replacements were included in Malaysia's 2006-10 financial plan, but the purchase of 18 Sukhoi Su-30MKM fighters earlier this decade has taken up much of the budget. However, industry sources say the government is likely to sanction a special budget for the procurement.
Boeing has not yet formally offered the Super Hornet to Malaysia
Replacing the S-61s has taken on added urgency after several fatal crashes involving the helicopter over the last few years. Almost 90 armed forces personnel and civilians have died in crashes involving the type since it was introduced in 1968, including six people killed in a July 2007 accident.
The government is believed to want to complete the delivery of the helicopters by early 2010 and manufacturers, who have been in informal talks for several years, are believed to be ready to respond to the requirement and fulfil it within a compressed timeframe, say industry sources.
Malaysia has several other pending helicopter requirements, including one for an additional six AgustaWestland Super Lynx 300 helicopters and six SAR aircraft for its Maritime Enforcement Agency.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/12/11/220109/boeing-and-sukhoi-go-head-to-head-in-malaysian-contest.html -
Wah.Originally posted by duotiga83:DATE:11/12/07
SOURCE:Flight International
Boeing and Sukhoi go head to head in Malaysian contest
By Siva Govindasamy
Malaysia is expected to shorten its list of contenders for a utility helicopter requirement from four to two in January, with the winner likely to be announced by mid-2008.
The AgustaWestland AW101 (formerly EH101), Eurocopter EC725, Sikorsky S-92 and a Russian helicopter, most likely the Mil Mi-17, are competing to replace Malaysia's more than 20 Sikorsky S-61 Nuri helicopters.
Kuala Lumpur is expected to order 12 aircraft initially, although this could eventually rise to 48. The successful bidder could also be asked to provide helicopters for an army utility requirement, say industry sources.
The rotorcraft, which will also be used for search and rescue operations, should be able to transport around 20 personnel and perform both day and night operations, according to Royal Malaysian Air Force requirements. The aircraft should also have a glass cockpit, retractable landing gear and foldable rotor blades.
The tender has been on the cards since 2004 and S-61 replacements were included in Malaysia's 2006-10 financial plan, but the purchase of 18 Sukhoi Su-30MKM fighters earlier this decade has taken up much of the budget. However, industry sources say the government is likely to sanction a special budget for the procurement.
Boeing has not yet formally offered the Super Hornet to Malaysia
Replacing the S-61s has taken on added urgency after several fatal crashes involving the helicopter over the last few years. Almost 90 armed forces personnel and civilians have died in crashes involving the type since it was introduced in 1968, including six people killed in a July 2007 accident.
The government is believed to want to complete the delivery of the helicopters by early 2010 and manufacturers, who have been in informal talks for several years, are believed to be ready to respond to the requirement and fulfil it within a compressed timeframe, say industry sources.
Malaysia has several other pending helicopter requirements, including one for an additional six AgustaWestland Super Lynx 300 helicopters and six SAR aircraft for its Maritime Enforcement Agency.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/12/11/220109/boeing-and-sukhoi-go-head-to-head-in-malaysian-contest.html
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Malaysia may buy more Su-30 fighters from Russia
MOSCOW, December 12 (RIA Novosti) - Malaysia may soon order a new batch of Russian-made Su-30MKM combat aircraft to equip an additional fighter squadron, a Russian source at the recent LIMA-2007 air show said Wednesday.
The Southeast Asian country has already received six out of 18 Su-30MKM fighters under a $900-million contract signed in 2003. The remaining 12 aircraft will be delivered in two shipments by the end of 2008.
"The Malaysian Royal Air Force is considering a new contract on the purchase of Russian Su-30MKM fighters," the source said.
The Su-30MKM is a multi-role Flanker variant based on the Su-30MKI model and features a customized avionics suite to meet Malaysian specifications.
The aircraft are being manufactured at Sukhoi's Irkutsk aircraft manufacturing plant in Siberia.
Malaysia currently operates a mixed fighter fleet, with the Russian MiG-29N Fulcrum, and the U.S.-made F/A-18D Hornet and F-5 Tiger.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20071212/92040115.html -
Sukhoi 27/30 is not a bad plane at all.
The newest Su-35(further derivative of Su-27) with vectoring nozzles is really a maneuver killer. Man that machine can fly like UFO.
Western/Israelis avionics with Russia's airframe...a truly dream flying machine.
The only fighter capable to challenge such plane on more than equal terms would be the stealth fighter F-22 which is so expensive you can build the Dubai's tower twice just to buy one of them
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I can tell you this. next batch of MRCA wont be soon probably the next Malaysia plans???
And it wont be Sukhoi either....Malaysia got no choice but to buy the FA-18F. Why? A host of reasons among others political and economic (read AFTA, FDI etc etc) and the need to have a check and balance factor ( to have all Ruskies fighters as a main assets for RMAF not a good PR for Kuala Lumpur) -
I believe that a country's defence should not be compromised on the basis of "political and economic (read AFTA, FDI etc etc) and the need to have a check and balance factor"Originally posted by HARIMAU:I can tell you this. next batch of MRCA wont be soon probably the next Malaysia plans??? And it wont be Sukhoi either....Malaysia got no choice but to buy the FA-18F. Why? A host of reasons among others political and economic (read AFTA, FDI etc etc) and the need to have a check and balance factor ( to have all Ruskies fighters as a main assets for RMAF not a good PR for Kuala Lumpur)
Especially when Malaysia is considered a relatively rich 3rd world country with many assets to protect such as land and natural resources. In Sabah where Malaysia have territorial disputes with Philippines and the Abu Sayaf terrorists. The on-going disputes of the Spartly islands, border patrols in the north to keep out Thai muslim rebels etc.Thailand is also growing militarily with the rise of China as well.
There is alot at stake for Malaysia. But the RMAF is less than satisfactory considering the numbers of aircraft and their quality involved to protect such a large airspace.
And frankly speaking if you can get good and cheap Russian top notch combat aircraft which can do the job well then PR is the least of your worries right? -
It will not compromise the defence by playing politic. Rather that it's good to do so by buying from both sides,especially Malaysia which not a really close friend with anyone.
Malaysian burned their fingers once when they bought F/A-18 that could only do defensive roles. They acquire SU-30MKM to rectify that but still would have to get something from the US in order to please the guys in Washington. The
USA still need to be kow-towed to in some way or another.
Being in their good list (at least somewhat) are very important to Malaysia. -
Malaysian burned their fingers once when they bought F/A-18 that could only do defensive roles.
the hornet were equip with Harpoon (confirmed by pic) and Amraamm (not confirmed yet but chet the link) ...that is not defensive armament.... -
: Thanks to reader N. Mohamed, we now know that in 2005, MINDEF purchased 20 Amraams from the US. The matter was reported to the UN Conventional Arms Register.
What is the UN Conventional Arms Register? According to its website:
On 6 December 1991, the General Assembly adopted resolution 46/36 L entitled “Transparency in armaments”, which requested the Secretary-General to establish and maintain at United Nations Headquarters in New York a universal and non-discriminatory Register of Conventional Arms, to include data on international arms transfers as well as information provided by Member States on military holdings, procurement through national production and relevant policies.
The Register comprises seven categories of major conventional arms, namely, battle tanks, armored combat vehicles, large-calibre artillery systems, combat aircraft, attack helicopters, warships (including submarines) as well as missiles and missile-launchers. It has been in operation with effect from calendar year 1992. Thus far, a total of 170 Member States have reported to the Register one or more times. The Register captures the great bulk of the global arms trade in the categories of conventional weapons covered by it. -
Yes. The Harpoons were part of the package which includes Mavericks,Sparrows and Sidewinders. The AMRAAM are still in storage in the USA.Originally posted by tankfanatic:the hornet were equip with Harpoon (confirmed by pic) and Amraamm (not confirmed yet but chet the link) ...that is not defensive armament....
According to some...it's not due to lack of armament but the fighters' on board computer can't be programmed for offensive usage.
Even ex-PM Mahathir once admit this.
Will our Malaysian friends care to elaborate more about this. -
Any insight by Malaysians who are in the loop will be welcome.Originally posted by fvwerra:Yes. The Harpoons were part of the package which includes Mavericks,Sparrows and Sidewinders. The AMRAAM are still in storage in the USA.
According to some...it's not due to lack of armament but the fighters' on board computer can't be programmed for offensive usage.
Even ex-PM Mahathir once admit this.
Will our Malaysian friends care to elaborate more about this.
This issue has perplexed me for ages.
Several countries which have bought US warplanes have had no problems using them in attack missions. The recent attack on Kurdish positions by F-16s of the Turkish AF is a case in mind. -
Whichever that has more kang tau and commision. I think will be the Sukhoi.
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Simple. More MONEY to line their own pockets.Originally posted by tankee1981:Just don't understand what is their rational for doing what they have been doing all along. -
If they want another Malaysian up in space then i guess Sukhoi is the best option.Originally posted by BadzMaro:Whichever that has more kang tau and commision. I think will be the Sukhoi. -
Will they be the first to land Matstronauts on the Sun? Stay tuned!Originally posted by tankee1981:If they want another Malaysian up in space then i guess Sukhoi is the best option. -
According to some...it's not due to lack of armament but the fighters' on board computer can't be programmed for offensive usage.
i've offered my explanation before in other threads.
Even ex-PM Mahathir once admit this.
Will our Malaysian friends care to elaborate more about this.
from what i gathered its the inability of the a/craft to register Western made a/craft as bogeys. there was an explanation from the RAAF abt this peculiarity with their hornets but they managed to sidetracked it due to their in-house capability which i reckon does not pleased uncle sam.
all this arises from the tomcats uncle sam sold to iran during the shah's reign where it was used to wallop saddam hussein's airforce during khomeini's reign. they learnt their lessons thereon. or so it seemed. apparently, they don't want future weapons they sold to be used against them. the drawback to potential buyer was that it couldn't be used not only against uncle sam. but against uncle sam allies as well. or uncle sam does not wish his allies to grab each others' throats.
the turkish f16s were up against ground targets for which they should not have any problem. but try pitting them up against the greeks' western a/craft. see how it'd go.
makes sense or not? -
Thanks for the explanation.Originally posted by ferryman2393:i've offered my explanation before in other threads.
from what i gathered its the inability of the a/craft to register Western made a/craft as bogeys. there was an explanation from the RAAF abt this peculiarity with their hornets but they managed to sidetracked it due to their in-house capability which i reckon does not pleased uncle sam.
all this arises from the tomcats uncle sam sold to iran during the shah's reign where it was used to wallop saddam hussein's airforce during khomeini's reign. they learnt their lessons thereon. or so it seemed. apparently, they don't want future weapons they sold to be used against them. the drawback to potential buyer was that it couldn't be used not only against uncle sam. but against uncle sam allies as well. or uncle sam does not wish his allies to grab each others' throats.
the turkish f16s were up against ground targets for which they should not have any problem. but try pitting them up against the greeks' western a/craft. see how it'd go.
makes sense or not?
But does this mean RSAF Vipers can't engage RMAF Hornets?
The Saudis F-15Cs shot down 2 Iranian F-4s in the 80s. Why are the
Saudi's F-15 are not affected?
Could be that you must be really good buddy with Uncle Sam to be
supplied with 'unrestricted' radar? -
dude he wrote ...Originally posted by fvwerra:Thanks for the explanation.
But does this mean RSAF Vipers can't engage RMAF Hornets?
The Saudis F-15Cs shot down 2 Iranian F-4s in the 80s. Why are the
Saudi's F-15 are not affected?
Could be that you must be really good buddy with Uncle Sam to be
supplied with 'unrestricted' radar?to wallop saddam hussein's airforce during khomeini's reign. they learnt their lessons thereon.
...it is in the 80's. -
The question is can RSAF shoot down any US made planes if what Mr Ferryman said is correct.