Compact Personal Weapon by ST
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PDW concept in general?? Care to explain whats the PDW concept?Originally posted by chino65:You are barking up the wrong tree.
We were talking about the PDW concept in general.
Having trouble reading? Blinded by rage?
Sorry I'm a bit less knowledgeable about "PDW concept" umbrella term.
So far, every support arm troop I know, US Army, PLA, Russian Army, etc, are trained to use their standard infantry assault rifle. -
Any idea where?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Yes.
Cos i heard that the Bionixes and LSVs are made in Aus. -
LSV is an Australian design.Originally posted by wonderamazement:Any idea where? Cos i heard that the Bionixes and LSVs are made in Aus.
Bionix, am not sure. But the small arms are made here, IIRC.
Of course, if it's jointly licensed, it may not be made here, like the Matador. -
can u tell me the source?The black is so cool.
Exhibited in AA 2004!!
more info and links here.SSW is made in Singapore -
PDW=Personal Defense Weapon.Originally posted by Shotgun:PDW concept in general?? Care to explain whats the PDW concept?
Sorry I'm a bit less knowledgeable about "PDW concept" umbrella term.
So far, every support arm troop I know, US Army, PLA, Russian Army, etc, are trained to use their standard infantry assault rifle.
The idea behind is that the weapon must provide more offensive capabilities then a pistol, machine pistol or smg yet smaller then a AR or carbine. But they are largely placed in the SMG class like your MP5K, Scorpion,MP7,P90. And though often, they are designed with the HQ personnel like the clerk, storeman, cook in mind for their ease of usage, they are hardly seen in their hands and are more often found in SF troopers hands. The idea is often to place something that can be easily taught to someone who doesn't operate weapons often, how to use within a minute and throw that chap into combat. It sure beats using a pistol due to its ease of aiming, recoil management and such.
Just my 2cents -
I don't think thats quite it.Originally posted by SpecOps87:PDW=Personal Defense Weapon.
The idea behind is that the weapon must provide more offensive capabilities then a pistol, machine pistol or smg yet smaller then a AR or carbine. But they are largely placed in the SMG class like your MP5K, Scorpion,MP7,P90. And though often, they are designed with the HQ personnel like the clerk, storeman, cook in mind for their ease of usage, they are hardly seen in their hands and are more often found in SF troopers hands. The idea is often to place something that can be easily taught to someone who doesn't operate weapons often, how to use within a minute and throw that chap into combat. It sure beats using a pistol due to its ease of aiming, recoil management and such.
Just my 2cents
Firstly, personal defense weapons are often more expensive than the regular M-16 or SAR, and not forgetting that most of them use special cartridges to achieve the penetration effects.
In terms of use, I've yet to see a complicated standard infantry assault rifle. AK-47, M-16, SAR-21... its all c0ck n shoot.
No, I do not believe the PDW to be chopped down weapons for HQ troops to use. PDWs are specialized weapons for special roles. Roles that require the weapon to be shorter than normal, but greater firepower than a pistol. That would fall into the SF category, or plain clothes security officers who need to conceal and carry. -
Why not try putting a conversion kit to a normal GLOCK 18 pistol to shoot full auto? Takes 30 rounds clip and even hi capacity drum mag!Originally posted by tripwire:i saw singapore police officer carrying that....
initially i thought the weapon look very weird... not the usual pistol used by our boys in blue....
first idea comes to mind..... stun gun!
Think will be cheaper than buying ST's expensive new toy.
See this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI -
ST Kinetics lorOriginally posted by wonderamazement:Any idea where? Cos i heard that the Bionixes and LSVs are made in Aus.
wat u have heard is wrong -
Slight correction......actually Glock 18 was designed to fire full auto and semi-auto. There is a mod kit around which could be added to other standard GLOCK pistols to make it fire full auto. So it's not limited to just 9mm firing full auto using Glock 18; you can have full auto capability with other Glocks with different calibre .357, .40, .45 .380, 10mmOriginally posted by gunNut:Why not try putting a conversion kit to a normal GLOCK 18 pistol to shoot full auto? Takes 30 rounds clip and even hi capacity drum mag!
Think will be cheaper than buying ST's expensive new toy.
See this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBjUDCyDCuI
See Glock 18 firing full auto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qOPZZ_W7Ik -
Correction..
the Bionix is a 100% Singaporean project....cause we needed a specific vehicle specification.
It is 100% designed and made in Singapore....one of the best APCs in the world today...very proud of it. -
why need modified Glock when we have FN P-90, Sphinx 3000 pistol, Sig Sauer P226?
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Some people may disagree with you.Originally posted by specialOps:Correction..
the Bionix is a 100% Singaporean project....cause we needed a specific vehicle specification.
It is 100% designed and made in Singapore....one of the best APCs in the world today...very proud of it. -
You know, our own "local" products (that's bigger than what you can carry) always have controversies IE we irked quite a few countries.
Best to call our vehicles Singapore Zhng and not idg-whatever. -
....Sorry, but can Sphinx 3000 and P226 shoot full auto like what a typical PDW can. I know there are other PDW like P-90 and HK-MP5K etc....Originally posted by specialOps:why need modified Glock when we have FN P-90, Sphinx 3000 pistol, Sig Sauer P226?
What I am trying to say is a modified GLOCK Pistol (shooting full auto at up to 1300 rds/min) would serve the exact same purpose of what ST developed PDW could do, minus the expensive cost. -
You know, about recoil right and ammo right? The only thing you will hit is the sky with an auto glock PISTOL firing at that rate (1300/min right? That's like 20 rds/sec).
You squeeze and release you will probably empty half the mag of 30 rounds?? Not to mention with that kinda of short barrel, your rounds wont be flying in the line where you are pointing at.
Compact weapons even mini uzis are much more useful (and accurate if it comes with a forehand grip to reduce the recoil) -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
So futuristic looking......
can u tell me the source?The black is so cool.
Exhibited in AA 2004!!
[b]more info and links here.SSW is made in Singapore[/b] -
Thank you, yes I know about recoil and ammo. All handguns will have considerable amount of recoil, it's a matter of your grip on the weapon. Go have a look at the Youtube link I posted earlier and see the recoil effect of auto firing GLOCK.Originally posted by CM06:You know, about recoil right and ammo right? The only thing you will hit is the sky with an auto glock PISTOL firing at that rate (1300/min right? That's like 20 rds/sec).
You squeeze and release you will probably empty half the mag of 30 rounds?? Not to mention with that kinda of short barrel, your rounds wont be flying in the line where you are pointing at.
Compact weapons even mini uzis are much more useful (and accurate if it comes with a forehand grip to reduce the recoil)
Unless the ST Compact Personal Weapon comes with a special ammo, I dun see its selling point. -
That's a rather sweeping statement....Originally posted by gunNut:All handguns will have considerable amount of recoil,
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Just to have no doubt i have watched the several videos on youtube for your sake.Originally posted by gunNut:Thank you, yes I know about recoil and ammo. All handguns will have considerable amount of recoil, it's a matter of your grip on the weapon. Go have a look at the Youtube link I posted earlier and see the recoil effect of auto firing GLOCK.
Unless the ST Compact Personal Weapon comes with a special ammo, I dun see its selling point.
First thing i notice, the target board is not even 10 meters away and the stupid rounds are going all over the place. 30 rounds of 9mm calibre and the board barely got ripped open. I can guess the effect of the glock on any combat armour worn by troops in combat. There would be little effect.
Watching the guy spray the drum mag on the glock, i laugh really really hard, You pick your drum mag with the glock and i pick our saw(mk 2 will do) with a similar capacity drum mag and we both be 100 metres apart. Lets see who destroys a figure 11 target board first when we both go prone.
Unless the glock comes with proximity detonation frag warheads, i dont see any point to it being superior to any SMG which we have access to.
However, to be more precise, the point is the ST compact weapon is already comparable in purpose and maybe performance to your glock auto. The only difference being we dont have to pay for the manufacturing license to glock AND the compact weapon by ST is already a reality (making them in house is always better i feel).
These are all but machine pistols anyway. What's the standard ammo load you think will go with just one machine pistol? To fight even more than 1 min in a retrogade you will burn off i dont know how many mags, hitting and killing any one not withstanding. I dont know about you, but standing the way the guy in the videos was standing while in combat looks very stupid to me.
Not that i think that's the proper way to stand while in combat, standing and shooting is the wrong thing to do just to clarify. The point is in all demo videos like this one, normally it shows the -best- or most -optimum- performance of the gun. yes the glock didnt jam, i'm impressed. Is it practical to be issue to our non combat personnel? No. Not the ST compact weapon either. I dont even know why they bother to make and market one in the first place.
I really doubt the machine pistols(auto pistols) practicality since, you will get better balistics performance by using similar ammunition and putting them in a not so much bigger SMG like MP5. Same ammo, more capability. Overall less space and weight. -
The CPW is not in production yet. It is currently being developed with 9mm ammunition, but also designed to be compatible with other calibers with the changing of certain parts.
Targeted for personnel in tight surroundings with not much space to maneuver, such as pilots, air crew, and armour personnel. -
Hmm...i've always thought the G18 to be 3 round burst, much like the Beretta M93R.
Quite frankly, I think if you wanna give support and log.troops, simply give them the good old work horse, M16/AR15 thats simple, easy to use and fark proof. Give them all this space age, stylo milo cappucino stuff, increases training costs etc.not value for $$. -
Hi, SepcOps87, I fully agree with you. M16/AR-15 Carbines are way better for support/log troops......much better than a RoboCop gun.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Hmm...i've always thought the G18 to be 3 round burst, much like the Beretta M93R.
Quite frankly, I think if you wanna give support and log.troops, simply give them the good old work horse, M16/AR15 thats simple, easy to use and fark proof. Give them all this space age, stylo milo cappucino stuff, increases training costs etc.not value for $$. -
i have posted one CPD but forget the location.
pl post and show me the location. -
Yes, of course the M16 has been proven in battle to be a reliable weapon. However air crew men/pilots have limited space to swing their weapons around. In situations such as urban warfare, a standard assault rifle may also hinder movement and give away location.
This explains the development of sub-machine guns like the MP5, however reliable, accurate and situation proven they are, use 9mm ammunition which doesn't work against bulletproof vests. This partly led to the development of PDWs which use special ammunition able to penetrate the NATO standard body armour.
The CPW is targeted somewhat along that lines, to be able to provide the compactness of a pistol but accuracy and firepower of a rifle. -
They can disagree all they want, but I personally know people who were in the Bionix development team, and they spent several years developing it, and we also know the reason for its specific developments...its not a copied product, there was nothing to copy from in the first place.Originally posted by touchstone_2000:Some people may disagree with you.
Anyway...ST's factory is at Boon Lay, its not a secret...all the Bionix, SAR-21, Ultimax-100 SAW, bullets....Primus, FH-2000, mortar..wadever, all from there.