Military backpack (field pack) vs. normal backpack?
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Hi guys,
Anyone knows what is the major differences between military-style backpacks as sold at Beach Road, compared to those commonly sold at sporting goods for hiking/trekking/mountaineering?
Any special design considerations/features/functionalities for military style field packs?
I notice the SAF field packs do not come with stuffs like those CamelBak waterbag, but is a separate bag attached to the LBV.
Anyway, why do 3G SAF soldiers still have to carry water bottles on top of the waterbag for drinking purpose?
Shopping for a backpack, so consulting military gurus here.
Any comments welcome. -
go sheares for ure branded spec ops stuff..Originally posted by ykgoh:Hi guys,
Anyone knows what is the major differences between military-style backpacks as sold at Beach Road, compared to those commonly sold at sporting goods for hiking/trekking/mountaineering?
Any special design considerations/features/functionalities for military style field packs?
I notice the SAF field packs do not come with stuffs like those CamelBak waterbag, but is a separate bag attached to the LBV.
Anyway, why do 3G SAF soldiers still have to carry water bottles on top of the waterbag for drinking purpose?
Shopping for a backpack, so consulting military gurus here.
Any comments welcome.
i dunno...
onli use field pack during BMT..
after that Alice pack all the way...
the new field packs i think can add water bladder too..
anywaes...y waterbottles?..
its so hard to treat heat exhaustion injuries with a watter bladder.. -
No need a military guru to explain the difference.
Military field pack are made to the requirements of the armed forces that requested them.
As a military organisation, they would want the most economical solution to equip their soldiers at the same time want a bag that solves their problem.
The military have a stringent requirement to which the manufacturer have to adhere,
namely,
1. flammability of material
2. durability
3. strength of stitches
4. comfort.
5. quality
Basically they want the best for the cheapest. This would be unheard of in the commercial world.
Please do take into account that first release of any military equipment are prone to defects. Just like when trial battalions receive their LBV and larger field packs, after few months... most soldiers experience torn zippers or broken buckles.
such problems are usually solved in subsequent releases.
Commercially available bags (Deuter, North Face, Mammut, etc)
Here you are exposed to a large variety of prices, quality, designs, etc.
But in general, they are more comfortable than military issues stuff as they are more padded in areas where the military might not want as they may hinder operational requirments.
Do remember that most of these bags are OEM made. And quality tend not to differ much between brands of the same class (don't compare a $400 Arctyrex bag to a $40 Jansport). -
arcteryx like lost its novelty...i'd go for a blackhawk anytimeOriginally posted by Ponders:No need a military guru to explain the difference.
Military field pack are made to the requirements of the armed forces that requested them.
As a military organisation, they would want the most economical solution to equip their soldiers at the same time want a bag that solves their problem.
The military have a stringent requirement to which the manufacturer have to adhere,
namely,
1. flammability of material
2. durability
3. strength of stitches
4. comfort.
5. quality
Basically they want the best for the cheapest. This would be unheard of in the commercial world.
Please do take into account that first release of any military equipment are prone to defects. Just like when trial battalions receive their LBV and larger field packs, after few months... most soldiers experience torn zippers or broken buckles.
such problems are usually solved in subsequent releases.
Commercially available bags (Deuter, North Face, Mammut, etc)
Here you are exposed to a large variety of prices, quality, designs, etc.
But in general, they are more comfortable than military issues stuff as they are more padded in areas where the military might not want as they may hinder operational requirments.
Do remember that most of these bags are OEM made. And quality tend not to differ much between brands of the same class (don't compare a $400 Arctyrex bag to a $40 Jansport). -
hey rockhound-you normal infantry right? How come you're carrying an ALICE pack?Originally posted by Rockhound:go sheares for ure branded spec ops stuff..
i dunno...
onli use field pack during BMT..
after that Alice pack all the way...
the new field packs i think can add water bladder too..
anywaes...y waterbottles?..
its so hard to treat heat exhaustion injuries with a watter bladder..
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stretcher and MOP put where?...not forgetting encik's small frying pan and burner.....my backside arh?Originally posted by chanjyj:hey rockhound-you normal infantry right? How come you're carrying an ALICE pack?
lol
i went to unit after getting stripes....got 1 alice pack waiting for me compliments from my 2 IC
and i love carrying it so much...lol...
reservist coming..gonna get me another one or try to get the new stomp bag that some units are using for their medics.... -
I thought only the CDOs and crazy me carried the Alice packOriginally posted by Rockhound:stretcher and MOP put where?...not forgetting encik's small frying pan and burner.....my backside arh?
lol
i went to unit after getting stripes....got 1 alice pack waiting for me compliments from my 2 IC
and i love carrying it so much...lol...
reservist coming..gonna get me another one or try to get the new stomp bag that some units are using for their medics....
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i appreciate the weight distribution uh...its like not carrying anything at all...Originally posted by chanjyj:I thought only the CDOs and crazy me carried the Alice pack
my company liked the alice frame....
we'd strap the 84 rounds on the frame too..
to me its a force multiplier...able to carry twice my medical load...but i still think stretchers are outdated which should onli be used by the BCS...
i was very in favour of carrying 4 coverlitters instead of 1 stretcher..but too bad higher ups are still very backward when it comes to medical stores -
My advice is to get a commercial design. Our field packs are (IMHO) not yet at the level of US Military (COTS based) and may never get there due to cost considerations.
The seperate water bag is so that soldiers can drink when they are not wearing their field pack i.e. during the assault. However the problem is that the field pack squashes the waterbag and causes it to leak as a result. Some more discerning soldiers have a seperate waterbag carrier and just strap it on top of their field pack when it is worn. -
btw, just to add to my original discussion, if I intend to use a military-style backpack (perhaps better ones such as Blackhawk) for my overseas travel, any tip on locking it up or securing it?
I notice that some backpack compartments are secured using the black plastic snap-on clips, which obviously cannot be locked up using padlocks like typical luggage cases.
What are some techniques that backpackers use to secure their backpacks from theft and insertion of illegal items by smugglers perhaps at hotel/airport/custom? -
I usually use cable ties. while not the perfect deterrence. at least it will show signs of tamper.Originally posted by ykgoh:btw, just to add to my original discussion, if I intend to use a military-style backpack (perhaps better ones such as Blackhawk) for my overseas travel, any tip on locking it up or securing it?
I notice that some backpack compartments are secured using the black plastic snap-on clips, which obviously cannot be locked up using padlocks like typical luggage cases.
What are some techniques that backpackers use to secure their backpacks from theft and insertion of illegal items by smugglers perhaps at hotel/airport/custom?
my biggest worry is just some boliao ppl just open your zipper and slip heroin inside... and next thing you know you are hanging from a noose.
I also use Pacsafe cable lock sometimes, but it is not advisable for countries where customs are still "corrupt".
A bag in Pacsafe lock simply attracts too much attention.
Ya.. so use cable tie and liquid paper the "teeth" so if someone tries to tamper.. the liquid paper will flake off. -
You cable tie how to open? buy a scissors once you reached your destination?Originally posted by Ponders:I usually use cable ties. while not the perfect deterrence. at least it will show signs of tamper.
my biggest worry is just some boliao ppl just open your zipper and slip heroin inside... and next thing you know you are hanging from a noose.
I also use Pacsafe cable lock sometimes, but it is not advisable for countries where customs are still "corrupt".
A bag in Pacsafe lock simply attracts too much attention.
Ya.. so use cable tie and liquid paper the "teeth" so if someone tries to tamper.. the liquid paper will flake off.
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Can remove using safety pin de....Originally posted by chanjyj:You cable tie how to open? buy a scissors once you reached your destination? -
I thought safety pin also cannot carry now?Originally posted by deathscythe99:Can remove using safety pin de.... -
Not really.Originally posted by chanjyj:I thought only the CDOs and crazy me carried the Alice pack
By far the load distribution of the ALICE ruck is the best IMO. But i phucking hate the aluminium bar pressing into my neck as i don't leave much slack when i pull the straps. I'd usually use one for prolonged navex. For normal route marches, i'd use the standard issue field pack, and i'd remove my LBV waterbag and stuff it into the field pack.
The new field pack IMO is totally cannot make it. I was cursing and swearing while humping it during JCC.
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Hey man, if you are able to, try to get the shoulder straps from the new US MOLLE II field pack. It is compatible with the ALICE and will eliminate that problem =)Originally posted by Hellraiza:Not really.
By far the load distribution of the ALICE ruck is the best IMO. But i phucking hate the aluminium bar pressing into my neck as i don't leave much slack when i pull the straps. I'd usually use one for prolonged navex. For normal route marches, i'd use the standard issue field pack, and i'd remove my LBV waterbag and stuff it into the field pack.
The new field pack IMO is totally cannot make it. I was cursing and swearing while humping it during JCC. -
any idea where i could get one?Originally posted by edwin3060:Hey man, if you are able to, try to get the shoulder straps from the new US MOLLE II field pack. It is compatible with the ALICE and will eliminate that problem =) -
Perhaps Sheares can help you order.Originally posted by Hellraiza:any idea where i could get one? -
Just do a search on ebay. Last time I was at sheares (in sept) they were still selling the ALICE pack so I don't think they would have it. You can find it for about USD 5.99 or so, but the international shipping would kill you... Unless you get all your khakis to order as well, or you order other stuff. Given that the MOLLE system has replaced the ALICE for about 5-6 years now I don't really understand why we haven't changed over.
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you wouldn't want to look like those NCC kids lugging army style backpacks at ubin would you ? ...Originally posted by ykgoh:Hi guys,
Anyone knows what is the major differences between military-style backpacks as sold at Beach Road, compared to those commonly sold at sporting goods for hiking/trekking/mountaineering?
Any special design considerations/features/functionalities for military style field packs?
I notice the SAF field packs do not come with stuffs like those CamelBak waterbag, but is a separate bag attached to the LBV.
Anyway, why do 3G SAF soldiers still have to carry water bottles on top of the waterbag for drinking purpose?
Shopping for a backpack, so consulting military gurus here.
Any comments welcome.
stick to a commercial backpack ... -
sigh. The problem is i'm not going to be in the army long enough to warrant buying expensive bits of kit...but the frequency of pack-humping is enough to drive anyone nuts!Originally posted by edwin3060:Just do a search on ebay. Last time I was at sheares (in sept) they were still selling the ALICE pack so I don't think they would have it. You can find it for about USD 5.99 or so, but the international shipping would kill you... Unless you get all your khakis to order as well, or you order other stuff. Given that the MOLLE system has replaced the ALICE for about 5-6 years now I don't really understand why we haven't changed over. -
Haha can tell the new guys then... they still got many years before they are done... Maybe this can help some of their backs and shoulders! I agree about the training intensity, but what do u expect sia