Possible war scenarios Singapore will engage in
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Wise words. What is not heard, doesn't mean it is any less effective.Originally posted by Rockhound:not many people would speculate that..especially not a student..... but SOF are up there regionally...can give alot of people a run for their money..
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I heard our NDU SWGs did well against Seal 6 in a kill house exercise before. Despite being equipped with less sophisticated hardware.
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If It is only with Malaysia -
very funny.... the mighty american....still paiseh in defeating the untrained, un disiplined and poorly armed 'enemy combatant' in iraq....yet we will definately crush malaysian like flies.... LOL (check your sarcasm meter)
There is no way Malaysia can stop a Singapore onslaught based on current MAF capabilities. The Military campaign in W. Malaysia will be swift and fast. Only problem, are the aftermath of war and the prolong guerilla warfare by the remnants of MAF who will have the Malaysian population support behind them. BTW We will allow the outflux of Malaysian Malay refugees to go to East Malaysia.
and to have a win win situation -
We will strike a deal with the Indons and Brunei , Sarawak goes to Indons, Sabah goes to Brunei and we will take the whole of West Malaysia. Maybe to placade the Thais we will give them Kedah and Langkawi
malaysian are ally....we should treat them as such... -
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I know some soldiers would die die follow orders from their superior to get the job done.How I know ?Because I was one of them at one time and there were many others like me.The day I started to doubt was the day I decided to ROD.Originally posted by Hellraiza:Erm. I think no-one in SAF will kill a fellow Singaporean. Even if orders to do so are passed down. I know i definitely won't. Court-martial me lor.
And anyway...i believe we already have an "impartial force" to deal with "civil threats".
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Originally posted by tankfanatic:
I completely agree with you on this.
very funny.... the mighty american....still paiseh in defeating the untrained, un disiplined and poorly armed 'enemy combatant' in iraq....yet we [b]will definately crush malaysian like flies.... LOL (check your sarcasm meter)
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This same stupidity was exhibited by the whites when they thought the Jap military was a joke.Originally posted by tankfanatic:
This I am not sure. It is always safer to treat neighbouring armies as potential adversaries. Especially Malaysia as we are within spitting distance.
malaysian are ally....we should treat them as such...
Being a Malay society, they will always want to reassert their racial rights to tbe the boss of this region. -
This I am not sure. It is always safer to treat neighbouring armies as potential adversaries. Especially Malaysia as we are within spitting distance.
it is just weird considering a person who is your relative as a potential enemy...i have relative there u know.
Being a Malay society, they will always want to reassert their racial rights to tbe the boss of this region. -
"Befriend a distant state while attacking a neighbour "
One of the strategies quoted from 36 strategies. -
So?Originally posted by tankfanatic:it is just weird considering a person who is your relative as a potential enemy...i have relative there u know.
Ever heard of the Vietnam War, Korean War?
The examples of countries where people kill each other for one reason or other is too numerous. And SG and MY are TWO separate countries - one run by Bhuddist/Christian Chinese, one run by Islamic Malays. We can't be more different. -
can't imagine peoples of these 2 countires would try to kill each other...koreans killing koreans and vietnamese killing vietnamese and chinese killing chinese during chinese civil war...in name of ideology....Originally posted by chino65:So?
Ever heard of the Vietnam War, Korean War?
The examples of countries where people kill each other for one reason or other is too numerous. And SG and MY are TWO separate countries - one run by Bhuddist/Christian Chinese, one run by Islamic Malays. We can't be more different. -
I hope the brain picking excerise is helpful for your survey or some work. Anyway here are some general thoughts.
[quote]Originally posted by damienthedevil:
I think this has been done before in this forum but can we think of all the possible War scenarios Singapore will probably be Involve in -
Lets start with Malaysia and Indonesia -
[b]If It is only with Malaysia -
If It is only with Indonesia -
Unless there are dramatics shift in Geopolitics or a extreme regime changed in the fundamental of Indo or my regime. i don't see why SG, MY or Indo would take up arms on each other. I am also sure all the regional military analyst would have done enough study to conclude that there are much to loose politically. So at the end of the day so long as the neighbour maintain balance of power, nobody will move their butt.
that is also to say that Indo or My would not allow SG to expand its territorial claim as it is. As that would tilt the balance of power so it would never be a one sided war. if a one sided war ever happen SG would have to gave up something really huge maybe merge with MY.
in military terms SAF can win battles but War can be a different outcome. There are many old topics i am sure there are senior in this forum can direct.
If It is in support of FPDA - Spratleys Island
If It is in support of UN -
IF it is a world wide war say against Iran or North Korea
IF it is a world wide war say against China
At the current political level, I'll “BET” that SG leader will not send military on Spratleys under FPDA. Infact anything to do with China. sg will not send military SG interest is only trade lane. We could negociate our way out with China Directly if ever a naval conflict occurred.
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If a UN mission is to be in Asean countries and China is not in the background than yes sg might send troop into a combat zone. But countries such as myanmar is beyond SG political will.
I would assume that both China, North Korea, Russia combined and decimated the US (exaggerate) in order to classify as a World at War. What is left is EU and Asia.
Do u think LHL would fight against world domination or actuallyI am not sure which side is SG going to Stand on at this moment in our leadership? LHL has mention he doesn't want to be in a position to have to choose side between US and China. We also saw what china can do to SG direction. In fact i think it is time to review some of the old agreements. The equation of china will change everything by looking at Myanmar it may already have.
Does sg look at cheque book, and geographical place and said she belong to Asia and follow China next super power ..bla bla bla or does sg stand against Hegemony?
Until we are clear what is our position, than can we be sure where we train our forces and prepare for SAF to engage. Civilian army cannot be prepared to fight every possible conflict nor can it goes to different continent and wa yan. In the 80Â’s we know Thailand Cambodia border was a possible front. Do u know where is the next possible threat? -
Singapore will not want to choose sides, but like I said.. SLOCs are our lifeline.
China's stated goal in any Spratley conflict is to secure these SLOCs for their own supply line security. If they choose to do so by force, the choice is simple for us.
Negotiation with China in times of a military conflict is pointless. What leverage do we have?
We may be trading partners, but don't assume Singapore or any of the ASEAN partners will roll over and play dead if China decides to turn crazy down south. SEA has seen the impact that China already has on this region in peacetime, and consequently, will always hedge against any unfortunate change in relations.
We still have memories of the Japanese pushing southwards. The security of region will be decided by us to the best of our combined abilities, and those allies of our choosing.
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Thailand rolled over and play dead when Japan pushed southwards. We have seen indon terrrorists turned crazy down south, bombed and killed hundreds of oz. We are spared so far certainly not because of good brotherly love and neighborhood spirit of our neighbors in the region.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Singapore will not want to choose sides, but like I said.. SLOCs are our lifeline.
China's stated goal in any Spratley conflict is to secure these SLOCs for their own supply line security. If they choose to do so by force, the choice is simple for us.
Negotiation with China in times of a military conflict is pointless. What leverage do we have?
We may be trading partners, but don't assume Singapore or any of the ASEAN partners will roll over and play dead if China decides to turn crazy down south. SEA has seen the impact that China already has on this region in peacetime, and consequently, will always hedge against any unfortunate change in relations.
We still have memories of the Japanese pushing southwards. The security of region will be decided by us to the best of our combined abilities, and those allies of our choosing.
What leverage do we have in negotiation with MY and Indon in times of war?
The security of the region is decided by those whose interests are affected, and Singapore will only be involved to protect Singapore's interest, we choose the allies that will help protect our interest. Singapore can and will assist in the negotiation for peaceful settlement in the region, but we don't fight for others. -
Originally posted by LazerLordz:
Lol, itÂ’s always amazing to have you on board because of your full new & revolutionary ideas that conflicting with common sense, what? Spratly for SLOC securing, Frankly, my intelligent canÂ’t figure out a series low tide elevations/obstacles called Spratly have any significance in relate to logistical mid point/navy operation launch point for any SLOC securing? All my knowledge regarding the Significance of Spraytly is: spratly features have the capacity to generate maritime zones of their occupiers, where large nature resources like oil & gas lies. , ur argument of using force against China is quite questionable as well, ChinaÂ’s virtual sea lane currently is always bypass SÂ’pore when you can control it at your doorside, why you want to fight in a far away area where u dispute nothing?
Singapore will not want to choose sides, but like I said.. SLOCs are our lifeline.
China's stated goal in any Spratley conflict is to secure these SLOCs for their own supply line security. If they choose to do so by force, the choice is simple for us.Negotiation with China in times of a military conflict is pointless. What leverage do we have?
ThatÂ’s quite interesting comments, considering the commenter full of fighting mood with China.We may be trading partners, but don't assume Singapore or any of the ASEAN partners will roll over and play dead if China decides to turn crazy down south. SEA has seen the impact that China already has on this region in peacetime, and consequently, will always hedge against any unfortunate change in relations.
Empty salvo as one virtually can change the China to any other non asean nation while affects nothing in this emotional expression. While the motivation of some one always singles out a certain country for sabre rattle is quite obviousWe still have memories of the Japanese pushing southwards. The security of region will be decided by us to the best of our combined abilities, and those allies of our choosing.
Where got something to do with Imperial Japan with today’s China, ya, China is offending massively/crazy south bound equipped no warship/fighter bombers but FTA/Trades/capitals for less developed Asean members like Indon/ Philippines, so what are u going to do? “roll over and play dead or something even more fun?” 
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I often wonder if Thaksin were still in power, would the result of recent Asean conference turn out different? Thailand is by far one of the most critical countries for SG in terms of regional stabilities. Its inaction result in what u said. Role over and play dead, and affect the south.Originally posted by sgdiehard:Thailand rolled over and play dead when Japan pushed southwards. We have seen indon terrrorists turned crazy down south, bombed and killed hundreds of oz. We are spared so far certainly not because of good brotherly love and neighborhood spirit of our neighbors in the region.
What leverage do we have in negotiation with MY and Indon in times of war?
The security of the region is decided by those whose interests are affected, and Singapore will only be involved to protect Singapore's interest, we choose the allies that will help protect our interest. Singapore can and will assist in the negotiation for peaceful settlement in the region, but we don't fight for others. -
I think you may have misunderstood LazerLordz.Originally posted by coolant:Where got something to do with Imperial Japan with today’s China, ya, China is offending massively/crazy south bound equipped no warship/fighter bombers but FTA/Trades/capitals for less developed Asean members like Indon/ Philippines, so what are u going to do? “roll over and play dead or something even more fun?”
Perhaps the concern is that China forcefully take over the Spratly's and unilaterally declares an Exclusive Economic Zone over the area.
If Pedra Branca can be regarded as our doorway to the South China Sea, the sea around the Spratly can be thought of as the main gate of our South East Asian "Condo." It is cannot be disputed that it is a very busy shipping lanes. Instability in that region, Will affect us.
Its definitely hard to imagine that we would immediately opt for a military confrontation with the Chinese. Any Chinese expansion will probably be regarded as part of the current dispute over the region. A dispute that we are not a part of and essentially no logical right of intervention. If anyone wants to fight with China over the Spratlys, it will be the Philippines, and Vietnam.
We'll probably be there "urging" everybody to settle the dispute peacefully so that commerce traffic will not be diverted away from Singapore to bypass the region. -
I ever saw on chinese forum that show an air strip on the island of course not sure which part of the south sea island is that, was just wondering what kind of military garrsion and what kind of defence capabilities..and how far a spread the chain of island. Some map show the claim as far south that cross path with Indo. Without any carrier projection i wonder how the PLN plan to be able to defence these islands and these days there are smart bomb there would not be any the letter of Iwo Jima left in the Sand.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Singapore will not want to choose sides, but like I said.. SLOCs are our lifeline.
China's stated goal in any Spratley conflict is to secure these SLOCs for their own supply line security. If they choose to do so by force, the choice is simple for us.
Negotiation with China in times of a military conflict is pointless. What leverage do we have?
We may be trading partners, but don't assume Singapore or any of the ASEAN partners will roll over and play dead if China decides to turn crazy down south. SEA has seen the impact that China already has on this region in peacetime, and consequently, will always hedge against any unfortunate change in relations.
We still have memories of the Japanese pushing southwards. The security of region will be decided by us to the best of our combined abilities, and those allies of our choosing. -
I think you may have misunderstood LazerLordz.
Oh really? ThatÂ’s what a political science stream undergraduate can tell apart the EEZ, territorial waters & their relation to international law governing SLOC & EEZ? As I said, the significance of Spratly is its ability to generate a Vast EEZ with abundant oil & gas beneath its seabed. International law of sea entitles the country owns such EEZ to claim such precarious resources but has no right to claim whatever SLOC that crosses the EEZ. So what he claimed Spratly for SLOC securing is legally groundless. For the rest, using Spratly as a logistic midpoint & base for any naval blockage is also meaningless as the Spratly is a series low tide elevations/obstacles providing no vessel replenishing & theater air defense function for naval fleet.
Perhaps the concern is that China forcefully take over the Spratly's and unilaterally declares an Exclusive Economic Zone over the area.
If Pedra Branca can be regarded as our doorway to the South China Sea, the sea around the Spratly can be thought of as the main gate of our South East Asian "Condo." It is cannot be disputed that it is a very busy shipping lanes. Instability in that region, Will affect us.
Pedra Branca case is different, It lies in the narrow and only waterway that links Malacca strait to South China Sea, while Spratly lies in the open sea. By securing Pedra Branca, u have secured the total 24 NMs territorial waters which overlay the SLOC. Territorial water of course is different from EEZ, which is only governed by national law instead of international law, am I right or the Political science student is right?Its definitely hard to imagine that we would immediately opt for a military confrontation with the Chinese. Any Chinese expansion will probably be regarded as part of the current dispute over the region. A dispute that we are not a part of and essentially no logical right of intervention. If anyone wants to fight with China over the Spratlys, it will be the Philippines, and Vietnam.
Obviously is not our political educated student’s way to figure out things, who naïvely thinks a war initiated by Sg because of the Spratly will only affect the trade between these 2 countries. I would ask again what the primary precondition is for a city to become the financial/trade/communication center? STABILITY. For superpowers, it’s easy, their superior fire power can ensure no other military force can touch their financial centers like New York & London. Not every country has that super muscle, then how to do, look at Switzerland, by declaring forever neutral standing for whatever matter that is irrelevant to its internal affair, Switzerland also achieves reputed financial capital status. Then see what our political educated tenant will do, thinking a dozens of long haul fighter strikes can score some hits on PLAN and think only trade will be affect. I would say, sorry, such hits towards a giant will only have the itch scrap effect. But the returned fire by their much superior projection firepower will easily cause your life.
We'll probably be there "urging" everybody to settle the dispute peacefully so that commerce traffic will not be diverted away from Singapore to bypass the region. -
so the conclusion to the title of this topic is no
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no? don't be too sure of the scenarios not bearing fruits.
the very existence of the SAF meant that there are possible wars. but currently not the expeditonary kind.
its doctrines dictates the extent of preparation. these may change over time depending on the political climate - internal and external.
so, keep the ball rolling. u might get a strike soon. -
According, to Wikipedia, the following claimants have constructed airstrips of various sizes on these islands/reefs. This list does not include the other man-made structures. Looks like a fiercely contested piece of prime real estate with sea view to me!Originally posted by Arapahoe:I ever saw on chinese forum that show an air strip on the island of course not sure which part of the south sea island is that, was just wondering what kind of military garrsion and what kind of defence capabilities..and how far a spread the chain of island. Some map show the claim as far south that cross path with Indo. Without any carrier projection i wonder how the PLN plan to be able to defence these islands and these days there are smart bomb there would not be any the letter of Iwo Jima left in the Sand.
Philippines have bulit airstrips on these islands Nanshan Island,Northeast Cay and Thitu Island.
Vietnam's airstrips are on Southwest Cay and Spratly Island (proper).
Malaysia's airstrip is on Swallow Reef.
PRC's airstrips are on Fiery Cross Reef/Northwest Investigator Reef and Subi Reef(helipad)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands -
I should have been clearer with my words and not fudged our SLOCs with the Spratleys.
My intention was to say if China were to engage in a Spratley conflict, they will definitely try to secure their "energy transport corridor", which happens to also be our SLOCs.
I didn't intend to mix the Spratley's as part of our SLOCs. My bad. -
OMFFFFFFFFFFG YOU ALL CONFUSING ME ARRRRRRRRR
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dont be confused, because we are the best, in the SAF.Originally posted by Alphapunk2:OMFFFFFFFFFFG YOU ALL CONFUSING ME ARRRRRRRRR