MAF - 61 air crashes in 47 years {since 1963}
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Shocking admission in the Malaysian Parliament - as reported in the Malaysian New Straits Times.
Since 1963, the MAF had purchased 308 aircrafts, and only 232 are still in use - with 61 air crashes over the last 44 years !!!
These air crashes cost the Malaysian RM251 Million, not including the RM108 Million paid by the Government to the next-of-kin of those perished in the air crashes.
2007/11/21
Dewan Rakyat: 232 defence aircraft still in use
By : V. Vasudevan and Anis Ibrahim
One of the 18 Su-30MKM Sukhoi fighter jets acquired by the government this year.
THE government has bought 308 aircraft for the Defence Ministry since 1963, of which 232 are still in use.
Seventy-six aircraft have either crashed or no longer operational, said Deputy Defence Minister Datuk Zainal Abidin Zin.
"There have been 61 air crashes involving these aircraft. Fifteen of them involved Nuri helicopters, seven Alouette helicopters, 24 jet-fighters, four transport planes and 11 training aircraft.
"Fifteen aircraft can no longer be used or economical to be repaired," said Zainal Abidin.
Among the acquisitions were 43 Nuri helicopters bought between 1967 and 1978, 18 MiG-29 fighters in 1993 and 18 Su-30MKM Sukhoi fighters in 2007.
Zainal Abidin also said that over the past five years, the government paid RM180 million from the National Warriors Trust Fund to the next-of-kin of those who perished in air crashes.
"Losses from the crashes are estimated at RM251 million," he said in reply to Tan Kok Wai (DAP-Cheras).
To a supplementary question from Tan, Zainal Abidin said the government did not receive any commission from agents for its acquisitions.
"Acquisitions are made based on proposals by the ministry and approvals by the cabinet."
To another question from Lau Yeng Peng (BN-Puchong), Zainal Abidin said the armed forces were prepared to deal with any threat to the country. -
I wonder how many RSAF planes have crash in training/operation
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One May 2004 report had mentioned a F-16C crashed in the USA during training flight - pilot lost. In the same report, it also mentioned an earlier crash in May 2002 of another SAF F-16 flown by a US Pilot in a training area, with the pilot ejecting safely.
From a posting at the forum ''Defending the Lion City'' the following was extracted from some very confused jumble of details titled:
abstracts from:
RSAF has done much to boost flight safety
by David Boey
From 1970 to 1979, the RSAF lost 16 pilots from 21 fighter-aircraft crashes. One Hawker Hunter was damaged in a mid-air collision but managed to return to its airbase safely. More than 70 per cent of the crashes in the 1970s were fatal ones.
The 10 years between 1990 to 1999 saw nine RSAF personnel (six helicopter pilots and three helicopter aircrewmen) die in three helicopter crashes. No fighter pilot died during this period.
From 1990 to 1999, the RSAF lost five choppers, three fighters and three jet trainers. One F-16A fighter, which was badly damaged in a mid-air collision with another F-16A in July 1991, managed to limp back to Paya Lebar Airbase and has been rebuilt.
All RSAF deaths that occurred from 1990 to 1999 involved Super Puma transport helicopters. These carry two pilots and at least one aircrewman in the passenger compartment. -
what so shocking in aircraft crash? USAF ac crash every year...its a dangerous job.
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Originally posted by Atobe:
The "very confused jumble of details" you describe is part of a longer essay published in 2004, which I'm posting here.
From a posting at the forum ''Defending the Lion City'' the following was extracted from some very confused jumble of details titled: [/color]
[/b]
My upcoming book, Defending Singapore - The Singapore Armed Forces, will list crash data in an appendix.
Pub Date: Jun 2, 2004 Pub: ST Page: 25
Author: DBOEY
Headline: RSAF has done much to boost flight safety
By: David Boey, Defence correspondent
Page Heading: Commentary Analysis
Caption:
The RSAF's improved safety record is commendable in view of its more intense
flying schedule and the larger fleet of aircraft when compared to the past.
Corporation: Republic of Singapore Air Force, RSAF
Subject: Aviation Accidents, Safety
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
THOUGH military aviation is inherently dangerous, the Republic of Singapore Air
Force (RSAF) has done much to make air force flights safe.
A study of RSAF aircraft and helicopters lost in aerial accidents shows that
the air force has achieved fewer crashes and fewer fatalities in recent years
compared to the RSAF's formative years.
When air crashes do occur, these accidents tend to be far more survivable
now than air crashes in the 1970s.
The RSAF's improved track record did not pop up overnight but was the result
of a sustained effort to build up safety consciousness among all ranks. Some
other air forces have failed to shrug off their bad flight-safety record
because their senior officers have not remedied safety hazards like poor pilot
training, shoddy aircraft maintenance, improperly scripted standard operational
procedures or inadequately maintained airbase infrastructure.
The RSAF's improved safety record is commendable in view of its higher
operational tempo - which means more intense flying - and the larger fleet of
fighters, support aircraft and helicopters in its order of battle.
From 1970 to 1979, the RSAF lost 16 pilots from 21 fighter-aircraft crashes.
One Hawker Hunter was damaged in a mid-air collision but managed to return to
its airbase safely. More than 70 per cent of the crashes in the 1970s were
fatal ones.
The 10 years between 1990 to 1999 saw nine RSAF personnel (six helicopter
pilots and three helicopter aircrewmen) die in three helicopter crashes. No
fighter pilot died during this period.
From 1990 to 1999, the RSAF lost five choppers, three fighters and three jet
trainers. One F-16A fighter, which was badly damaged in a mid-air collision
with another F-16A in July 1991, managed to limp back to Paya Lebar Airbase and
has been rebuilt.
All RSAF deaths that occurred from 1990 to 1999 involved Super Puma
transport helicopters. These carry two pilots and at least one aircrewman in
the passenger compartment.
Catastrophic helicopter crashes are less survivable than accidents involving
aircraft equipped with ejection seats because chopper crews cannot bail out of
their stricken machines.
The fact that there is a 16-year gap between the previous death of an RSAF
fighter pilot and last month's fatal crash involving Lieutenant Brandon Loo
Kwang Han, 25, underscores the part that safety devices like ejection seats
have played in saving aircrew lives.
The last fatal crash involving an RSAF fighter pilot took place on May 24,
1988, in the Philippines. In that incident, a 23-year-old pilot ejected from a
Hawker Hunter just outside Clark Airbase. He was picked up by a United States
Air Force rescue chopper but died from his injuries.
Unlike ejection seats used today, which can safely extract a pilot even if
his aircraft is stationary on the ground, a Hunter pilot needed to achieve a
minimum height and airspeed for his parachute to open safely. The pilot
involved in the Clark Airbase crash was barely at the safety threshold, so his
injuries were severe.
Between that crash and the death of Lt Loo after his fighter crashed on May
19 during a night-training flight in the Arizona desert, 10 RSAF fixed-wing
aircraft have crashed but their pilots all survived.
Several other aircraft were involved in minor incidents, like veering off
runways, but no serious injuries to pilots were reported.
Such news may be cold comfort to the family, friends and colleagues of Lt
Loo, whose ashes were placed in their final resting place yesterday afternoon
at Foo Hai Ch'an Monastery.
While we mourn his loss, Singaporeans can take heart that the RSAF has built
up a robust safety-management apparatus that will get to the bottom of the
tragic crash and ensure that lessons learnt are disseminated in a proper and
timely manner.
The formation of the RSAF Flight Test Centre means the air force can work
with the defence industry and defence science community to test and install
devices to make RSAF aircraft safer.
These run the gamut from ejection seats and parachutes, to devices that can
launch decoys to protect aircraft against anti-aircraft missiles, thereby
boosting the aircraft's operational safety.
Airbase infrastructure has improved significantly since the 1970s. The
decision to build Changi East Airbase and the runway on Pulau Sudong means RSAF
pilots have alternative landing strips should emergencies arise.
These airstrips are a vital safety feature as flight paths leading to Paya
Lebar Airbase and Tengah Airbase take aircraft over densely populated areas.
One can appreciate the enormity of the task the RSAF faces in managing
safety when one considers that the RSAF is one of the few air forces in the
world where the sun never sets on its flight-training regime.
This is because the RSAF maintains detachments in places as far flung as
Australia, Brunei, France and the United States. So its training management
philosophy must operate not only round the clock, but also round the globe in
different climates and flying conditions.
The RSAF cannot hope for a zero-accident rate. The only way for any air
force to achieve a zero-accident rate is for it to keep its warplanes grounded.
That being an impractical measure, the RSAF must continue to work to manage
the consequences of air accidents by doing all it can to make such mishaps
survivable.
Warplanes can always be replaced, but pilots and aircrew are irreplaceable.
- Ends - -
deleted, extraneous
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Compared to Singapore, news reports about MAF are quite frank.Originally posted by hloc:I wonder how many RSAF planes have crash in training/operation
While this makes the MAF look really bad, our censorship makes SAF look too good.
Take for example their failed missile firing at sea. Their media slaughtered them and them look like fools. THis makes me wonder how well do all our live firings go?
From our own grapevine we hear tons of accidents in SAF that were never reported. SADA nearly shooting down the plane that was towing the target. SAF Arty bombarding Taiwanese villages. Gang fight in Taiwan resulting in shopping area burning down etc etc.
What Straits Times does report is only the tip of a very big iceberg. -
The above article posted make RSAF losses look quite severe, too.
But iof course, RSAF is airborne a hell lot more hours than most other airforces in the world barring those at or in a state of war. -
We didn't lose much of our modern aircraft.
Many of our A4s were lost in the late 70s, early 80s...
Pilots ejected safely in most cases.
Technical problems with the engine, after upgrade to A4-SU, no losses.
Super Puma - 1 or 2 lost (Mechnical failure)
Fennec - I remember at least 1 lost (can't remember)
F-16 (3 lost, 7 given to Thailand, 60 operational):-
Lost 1x F-16A (mid-air collision)
Lost 2x F-16C (in USA, one piloted by USAF MAJ eject safely; the other by RSAF LTA, suspected disorientation, didn't eject, died)
E-2C, none lost (4 operational)
F-50, none lost (9 operational)
F-5, none lost (49 operational)
In comparison, RSAF's safety and maintainence record is very good.
Most of our aircraft are not just flyable/operational, but in good condition. -
Your numbers don't look right leh.Originally posted by specialOps:We didn't lose much of our modern aircraft.
Many of our A4s were lost in the late 70s, early 80s...
Pilots ejected safely in most cases.
Technical problems with the engine, after upgrade to A4-SU, no losses.
Super Puma - 1 or 2 lost (Mechnical failure)
Fennec - I remember at least 1 lost (can't remember)
F-16 (3 lost, 7 given to Thailand, 60 operational):-
Lost 1x F-16A (mid-air collision)
Lost 2x F-16C (in USA, one piloted by USAF MAJ eject safely; the other by RSAF LTA, suspected disorientation, didn't eject, died)
E-2C, none lost (4 operational)
F-50, none lost (9 operational)
F-5, none lost (49 operational)
In comparison, RSAF's safety and maintainence record is very good.
Most of our aircraft are not just flyable/operational, but in good condition.
Also, don't forget the sacrifices of the Hunter community and Strikemaster crews and the UH-1s (biggest one-time loss of SAF personnel was when a UH went down in Brunei). -
CJ,
Speaking of which, when's your new book coming?
Airboss didn't land once as well. Tech saluted him off, but the jet didn't make it back.
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eh? serious?Originally posted by Shotgun:CJ,
Speaking of which, when's your new book coming?
Airboss didn't land once as well. Tech saluted him off, but the jet didn't make it back. -
Coming back to the topic: Does TUDM actually have 232 birds? -
they train for war, we train for show.Originally posted by tankfanatic:what so shocking in aircraft crash? USAF ac crash every year...its a dangerous job.
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nice oneOriginally posted by dragg:they train for war, we train for show. 
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Originally posted by dragg:
Tell me you are only joking ?
they train for war, we train for show.
Do you know how much jet fuel is burnt based on the high tempo of training flights conducted by the Singapore Air Force - which is reputed to have the highest flying hours clocked for training, compared to all the neighboring air force in this part of the world {not including China} ?
That is alot of tax payers money going up in smoke.
Still the Crown Prince of Johor was said to have sneaked into Singapore - at low levels - on his private helicopter and by-passed Singapore ATC, and landed at Singapore Polo Club; and the Air Force was still sitting on the tarmac.
Of course, this was before we had the 'eye in the sky' - and this event had probably pushed the necessity to get the AWACS. -
Yeah. But no details la. I was a kid back then. Remember visiting him, stealing the yucky jelly they gave him in the hospital. Come to think of it, I think I got conned....Originally posted by Moonstriker:eh? serious?
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RMAF have high tempo of training too......1000 hrs of PPRW (Programme for Prevention & Restoration Work) in less than 5 years...now thats high tempo
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For the Mig29N i mean....
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Originally posted by ChineseJunk:
A quick click reference to Wikipedia showed 226 in service and another 36 on order.
Coming back to the topic: Does TUDM actually have 232 birds?
It is interesting to note that with such a wide expanse of territorial space to be defended, the RMAF only has 55 Fighter Aircrafts
Total Fighter Aircraft: 55
Su-30 MKM Flanker {Russia}Strike-fighter 6 - (12 aircraft on order}
F/A-18 Hornet {USA} Strike-fighter - 8
MiG-29N Fulcrum {Russia} Air superiority fighter - 14
MiG-29NUB Fulcrum {Russia} Air superiority fighter - 2
BAe Hawk Mk 208 {UK} Light jet figher - 18
Northrop F-5F {USA} Jet Fighter - 5
Northrop F-5E Tiger II {USA} Jet Fighter - 2
Also interesting is that the RMAF has only three units of propellor driven Lockheed C-130T Herculese for aerial refuelling the fighter jets.
Transport Aircraft: 36 {2 on order}
Airbus 319 {Germany} VIP Transport - 1
Airbus A400M {Spain} Military Transport - {4 on order for delivery from 2013}
Boeing 737-700BBJ {US} - VIP Transport - 1 {for use by PM and/or DPM}
Bombadier Global Express {Canada} VIP Transport - 1
CASA CN235-220M-VIP {Indonesia} VIP Transport - 2
CASA CN235-220M {Indonesia} Light Military Transport - 6
Cessna 402B {USA} Communications Transport - 10
Dassault Falcon 900B {France}- VIP Transport - 1
Fokker F28-1000 {Netherlands} - VIP Transport - 1
Lockheed C-130H-30 {USA} - Military Transport - 6
Lockheed C-130H {USA} - Military Transport - 3
Lockheed C-130MP {USA} - Military Transport -1
Lockheed C-130T {USA} - Military Transport / Aerial Refuelling - 3
Total Maritime Aircraft: 4
Beechcraft Super King Air {B200T MPD} {USA} - 4
Total Helicopter: 45 {10 on order}
Sikorsky S-61 {S61A-4 Nuri} {USA} Multi-purpose - 30 {to be replace}
Aerospatiale SA-316B Alouette III {France} Multi-purpose - 10
Augusta A109C Hirundo {Italy} Mulit-purpose -1 {stored}
Mil Mi-171Sh {Russia} Combat Rescue - {10 on order}
Sikorsky S-70 Black Hawk {USA} VIP Transport -2
Augusta AS-61N1 {Italy} VIP Transport - 2
Total Training Aircraft: 81 {12 on order}
Aermacchi MB-339AM {Italy} - 9
Aermacchi MB-339CM {Italy} - {8 on order}
BAe Hawk Mk108 {UK} - 10
Pilatus PC-7 {Switzerland} - 37
Pilatus PC-7 Mk II {Switzerland} - 5 {4 on order}
MD3-160 Aerotiga {Malaysia} - 20
Total Reconnaissance Aircraft: 5
CTRM Eagle AR-V {Malaysia} - 3
RF-5E Tigereye {USA} - 2 -
shotgun --> Did he visit a neighbouring country without a passport? Lido?
I don't believe a pilot should lose his wings just because he didn't bring home an aircraft.
Michael Teo also lost his bird and he eventually rose to become Commander RSAF.
Some of the more illustrious names in our fighter community have also been members of the "ejection seat club". Like Frank Singam. -
i believe it's no more in use, it's in storage......Originally posted by Atobe:CTRM Eagle AR-V {Malaysia} - 3 -
I believe so, exact location I'm not too sure. But back then, things up north were still sane, and compensations usually hush things up.Originally posted by ChineseJunk:shotgun --> Did he visit a neighbouring country without a passport? Lido?
I don't believe a pilot should lose his wings just because he didn't bring home an aircraft.
Michael Teo also lost his bird and he eventually rose to become Commander RSAF.
Some of the more illustrious names in our fighter community have also been members of the "ejection seat club". Like Frank Singam.
Some of the old jets were notorious for flameouts. So there were probably more ejections than we know.
Goodness... RMAF really has a flying circus. They can have an aircraft exhibition on their own. -
Originally posted by Shotgun:CJ,
Speaking of which, when's your new book coming?
Airboss didn't land once as well. Tech saluted him off, but the jet didn't make it back. 
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My numbers are right leh...hunters, strikemasters and UH...is like decades ago liao lar, i didn't mention at all....but the existing flying aircraft figures are right...Originally posted by ChineseJunk:Your numbers don't look right leh.
Also, don't forget the sacrifices of the Hunter community and Strikemaster crews and the UH-1s (biggest one-time loss of SAF personnel was when a UH went down in Brunei).
RMAF got 200+ aircraft, but mainly transports...their fighting aircraft strength is a small fraction.