Leopard 2A6, how many rounds can it survive?
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In a FIBUA, in Singapore, how many rounds from a squadron of T-90s can it withstand?with no anti tank personnel around the T-90s.
Noting if that countries around us become hostile and amphibious landings have been made, a squadron of Abrams can handle a squadron of T-90s better than a Leo 2 if the SAF were to use it?
Just concerned about the AP rounds of the t-90 and its defence capibilities,
In a air attack whereby self propelled howitzers, such as Primus tanks do attack the 2A6 from a far, which type of rounds would they use to inflict damage? -
A squadron of Abrams can handle a squadron of t-90s better then a leo 2 ?Originally posted by Shanghai_Grand:In a FIBUA, in Singapore, how many rounds from a squadron of T-90s can it withstand?with no anti tank personnel around the T-90s.
Noting if that countries around us become hostile and amphibious landings have been made, a squadron of Abrams can handle a squadron of T-90s better than a Leo 2 if the SAF were to use it?
Just concerned about the AP rounds of the t-90 and its defence capibilities,
In a air attack whereby self propelled howitzers, such as Primus tanks do attack the 2A6 from a far, which type of rounds would they use to inflict damage?
Boy you damn wrong !!!! Leo 2 will more then give Abrams a run for their money, in fact a lot more tanks expert will rate leo 2 better than Abrams !!! Given a choice of M1 and leo 2 - I take the leo 2 !!! -
Primus are SPH so its not right to call them tanks. Therefore its an artillery attack and not an air attack.Originally posted by Shanghai_Grand:
In a FIBUA, in Singapore, how many rounds from a squadron of T-90s can it withstand?with no anti tank personnel around the T-90s.
Noting if that countries around us become hostile and amphibious landings have been made, a squadron of Abrams can handle a squadron of T-90s better than a Leo 2 if the SAF were to use it?
Just concerned about the AP rounds of the t-90 and its defence capibilities,In a air attack whereby self propelled howitzers, such as Primus tanks do attack the 2A6 from a far, which type of rounds would they use to inflict damage?
I don't think any of our immediate neighbours have T-90s, at least not for the moment.
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Take note that howitzer is not a point weapon, thou that is a procedure for howitzer to fire at tank column but the barrel evalation is so high that it act like a mortar fire and must use high charger which is very back for the gun barrel & create higher change for red force to locate our location as well as waste of ammo.Originally posted by Shanghai_Grand:In a air attack whereby self propelled howitzers, such as Primus tanks do attack the 2A6 from a far, which type of rounds would they use to inflict damage?
Unless you are talking about the Copper head rd which is used by US but it need to have commando to infiltrate deep in red force & using lazer beam to guide the rd till it impact. Doubt is cost & opertional effective? -
Why people like Vs thread so much *cough* Anyway let's play a game of IFs a round hits a tank.
if the round miss, 100 rounds also can survive.
if the round deflect/glance off. the modular part can dislocate or warp weakened in structure against a second hit
if it hits the armour but fails to penetrate completely like you have a wedge in a piece of wood, easier to split if you fire a second round and heng heng hit the same area.
if it hits the commander/gunner sights, it's a combat kill because they cannot counter fire
if it hits the engine/drivetrain, it's a mobility kill because the tank cannot move
if it hits the sprocket/tracks and shatters that, it's a laming(bai kar) tactic
if it hits the barrel and dents/damages it, you would get marksmanship badge
if it hits the fuel tank and the diesel catches fire. BOOM
if it hits the ammo and manages to start multiple ammo cook off, Happy CNY!
if it hits between the turret and bustle area, the tank will survive one shot, that one shot. (The crew wont survive though)
if AP round hits and penetrates the crew area - bah chor
if it was a HEAT round that did that - Free cremation.
I know not funny.
Some SPHs can direct fire but it's NOT meant for it. Artillery is NOT tank.
Our Neighbour has laser guided artillery rounds, shown during their Merdeka Parade. If they can have those toys, why we dont have? -
Oops.. But with the advent on increasing hostilities, it may be time to consider that our neighbouring contries can attack us.. Treaties are useless in an event of war, as any country can violateOriginally posted by tankee1981:Primus are SPH so its not right to call them tanks. Therefore its an artillery attack and not an air attack.
I don't think any of our immediate neighbours have T-90s, at least not for the moment. 
Hmm Singapore is a vital location for any trade import, export, so although small, has many benefits.. worth aobut US 2.3 Bil a year.(Trade).
Well if im not wrong,.. but i have heard of some rifle that can pierce tank armor?
Hmm so Primus can actually take out a tank if a lucky mortar hits the engine?
Hmm probably Malaysia has T-65 tanks or older?
A tank wont be much use against a fighter jet, so is there any warning systems to warn of a GPS bomb dropped by a hostile aircraft? -
don't think the tanks will get to see each other in FIBUA arh...highly unlikely with our apaches and the airforce...
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There's very few SANE neighbours who wants to attack us and can attack us.Originally posted by Shanghai_Grand:Oops.. But with the advent on increasing hostilities, it may be time to consider that our neighbouring contries can attack us.. Treaties are useless in an event of war, as any country can violate
Hmm Singapore is a vital location for any trade import, export, so although small, has many benefits.. worth aobut US 2.3 Bil a year.(Trade).
Well if im not wrong,.. but i have heard of some rifle that can pierce tank armor?
Hmm so Primus can actually take out a tank if a lucky mortar hits the engine?
Hmm probably Malaysia has T-65 tanks or older?
A tank wont be much use against a fighter jet, so is there any warning systems to warn of a GPS bomb dropped by a hostile aircraft?
Rifle can pierce tank armour? Sure but the thinner parts that's for sure. Afterall a tank barrel is but a "bigger" rifle.
Primus does not fire mortar. An artillery round landing on most tanks will probably kill it..dont even need to just be the engine.
We have SM1, your grandfather time already have it.
Do you know what's GPS? Would you know if a bird is crapping on your head? -
To be honest, the Leo2's are much faster, much much much more manoeverable, and can engage more accurately than any "best" russian tank.
It is unlikely that a Leo2 has to take repeated hits.
Moreover, in the Singapore scenario, the intelligence picture from AWACS, HUMINT, GSR, etc. will have enabled us to know far beforehand where enemies are, and our Leos are unlikely to be caught by surprise.
even if caught by surprise, the aggressor would be rapidly destroyed, simply by our sheer numerical and technological advantage, plus our F-16 and Apaches ready.
It would be very very very stupid for a small russian tank equipped force to try and beat around with our Leo2 + bionix + F-16 + Apache.... -
By the way...I do not know if you purposely mismatched all the weapon names for figurative purposes...I think you mean artillery and not air attack right?
In a air attack whereby self propelled howitzers, such as Primus tanks do attack the 2A6 from a far, which type of rounds would they use to inflict damage?[/b]
Anyway, to add, the Leo2s will not suffer much damage from Conventional artillery....you would need superb accuracy plus armour piercing type of artillery rounds.
The type of rounds and the mode of operation that the Primus or any other Singapore artillery gun will use in operations should not be discussed in public. -
So you have driven the L2, the "best" russian tank, BX, F 16 and Apache to give your opinion?Originally posted by specialOps:To be honest, the Leo2's are much faster, much much much more manoeverable, and can engage more accurately than any "best" russian tank.
It is unlikely that a Leo2 has to take repeated hits.
Moreover, in the Singapore scenario, the intelligence picture from AWACS, HUMINT, GSR, etc. will have enabled us to know far beforehand where enemies are, and our Leos are unlikely to be caught by surprise.
even if caught by surprise, the aggressor would be rapidly destroyed, simply by our sheer numerical and technological advantage, plus our F-16 and Apaches ready.
It would be very very very stupid for a small russian tank equipped force to try and beat around with our Leo2 + bionix + F-16 + Apache....
Anyway, to add, the Leo2s will not suffer much damage from Conventional artillery....you would need superb accuracy plus armour piercing type of artillery rounds.
The type of rounds and the mode of operation that the Primus or any other Singapore artillery gun will use in operations should not be discussed in public.
You also know how good our "intelligence picture from AWACS, HUMINT, GSR, etc. " is too?
You also know L2 can withstand a direct hit from a 155mm round?
So you dabbled in Arty and have close knowledge in their munitions and usage too?
What are you? -
And what's wrong with what he's said?Originally posted by CM06:So you have driven the L2, the "best" russian tank, BX, F 16 and Apache to give your opinion? You also know how good our "intelligence picture from AWACS, HUMINT, GSR, etc. " is too? You also know L2 can withstand a direct hit from a 155mm round? What, you from Germany?
What are you? -
What he gives an impression that SAF will win a conflict with a snap just because we have all the glitzy toys.
That's not true?
The true picture is that alot -more- people will die if they believe that as well? -
[double post
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Originally posted by specialOps:I cannot reveal my actual vocation, because I'm not allowed to.
Nope, not many people will die. Most of us will be alive. Casualty will be minimal.
Why I know? Because I belong to a special vocation, and I would say yes to most of the answers you have asked, but no, i've not driven a Russian tank, but I know exactly how it works, its capabilities and weaknesses.
You just don't know what u're asking. If you curious and ask, people who knows answer, you should accept.
If you don't accept answers from people who know, why do you bother asking? you might as well just blow your own trumpet. -
Then thank god for your special vocation.
On my end i'm still looking at more than single digit% casualties.
I dont blow my own trumpet. I care for every single father/son who dies if the red button is pushed.
1% is a small number 1% of 300K men is 3000 men. That's what i'm talking about. And read my PM. -
He's merely repeating what is theorised.Originally posted by CM06:What he gives an impression that SAF will win a conflict with a snap just because we have all the glitzy toys.
That's not true?
The true picture is that alot -more- people will die if they believe that as well?
Cut him some slack lah.
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Rifles can't penetrate tank armour, but 25mm and 30mm guns can. Its been tested before.Originally posted by Shanghai_Grand:Well if im not wrong,.. but i have heard of some rifle that can pierce tank armor?
Hmm so Primus can actually take out a tank if a lucky mortar hits the engine?
Hmm probably Malaysia has T-65 tanks or older?
A tank wont be much use against a fighter jet, so is there any warning systems to warn of a GPS bomb dropped by a hostile aircraft?
In public, no comments on our "friendly" neighbour.
Actually you won't use a GPS-guided or even laser-guided bomb on a tank, it is abit too costly, unless absolutely necessary, you would use something more economical. GPS won't be of use, unless you're dropping armour-piercing JDAM.
There are tanks with warning receivers against lasing, but that's just warning, the only reaction is to try and hide/run, but with modern weapons so fast and able to receive mid-course update, its unlikely they can run fast. -
From his answers it's not too hard to tell what vocation he's in.Originally posted by CM06:Then thank god for your special vocation.
On my end i'm still looking at more than single digit% casualties.
I dont blow my own trumpet. I care for every single father/son who dies if the red button is pushed.
1% is a small number 1% of 300K men is 3000 men. That's what i'm talking about. And read my PM.
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Well i'm too stupid to know what vocation he is in.
I know -roughly- what kind he can be in but that's that.
I dont like to paint bad picture but here this forums, you have lots of kids. Paint too rosy a picture and *sigh* I'm much of a pessimist. I said appropriate stuff to specialops in PM. -
Sounds alright then.Originally posted by CM06:Well i'm too stupid to know what vocation he is in.
I know -roughly- what kind he can be in but that's that.
I dont like to paint bad picture but here this forums, you have lots of kids. Paint too rosy a picture and *sigh* I'm much of a pessimist. I said appropriate stuff to specialops in PM.
Honestly, there's always a pissing contest in military forums. Take a look at Defencetalk and it's also going down the drain. -
My mood was pretty much because of defensetalk.
GfAus is getting pissy lately if you noticed his tone and increasingly longer and no nonsense replies.
Cant help but jump onto that bandwagon -
Ya, u're right, I'm just a kid, 14 yrs old, if you believe. I would be very happy to be 14.
My vocation, you can't guess one la...haha, its so rare, less than 0.001% of people. Its the only vocation that as a specialist, you're allowed to know almost as much as the highest ranked officers.
Its perfectly alright !
No-nonsense is just for facts la....online discussion just for talk talk...no need to take seriously.
The real serious things, can't even post here to discuss. Here just talk and piss. -
No mahz What i prefer is you can go -technical- but dont go specific mahz.
EG can rifle bullet penetrate tank armour?
Depends: Does the engine cover/track shroud counts as armour.
Dont entertain questions like can PT 91 penetrate L2 armour:
reply: I dont know.
I like your previous post regarding the GPS bomb and stuff. That type of reply i 100% approve and wont complain unless i know it's wrong imo then can debate. -
haha...ok lor....
bronco, yah, counted as armour. it is armoured.
the good old BV-206 could take 7.62mm at point bank range....the bronco is almost twice as good....but the specs are classified.