What if you are a pow?
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Originally posted by Heliakaon:
You will cause the death of your fellow singaporeans but you are the only one who is intact.Even if you left one bullet, you may not shoot yourself because there will always be fear.
Juz wanna explain myself although a bit long... SORRY
[b]go ahead then. we simply do not need people like you
Its not as though I chose to be in SAF. Its b'cos of some law enacted b4 I was even born and I did not chose to be a Singaporean and neither can I choose where I will be born
This is treason.Even though the government will not be there,but you will probably be skinned by some loyalists for collaborating.Or any surviving singaporeans after the war
Well, if I am going to turn rogue... do u think I am going to broadcast it to everyone? Maybe u treated fairly and with dignity during ur service but given my rank, I am always on the end bearing all burden... Can u imagine, ur promotion which u put in ur heart and soul to earn is revoked juz b'cos some idiotic ppl reverse and hit ur vehicle and all the blames on u cos as my OC who does not to help stated 'YOU DID NOT DO YOUR PART TO PREVENT THE ACCIDENT BECAUSE YOU NEVER HORN THEM' where got justice... LOL...can't imagine the look on my OC who dun treat us like human beings when he see me prying the info out of him...
With 1 crappy weapon with 2 mag !! you can take out at least 10 person . I am sure you be able to grab 1 weapon + spare ammo from at least 1 of the dead guy ....
Given my exp from ATAC, usually the few of us juz enough to form a section all armed with the same weaponary and ammo r faced with a few sections fully armed while the ppl who r tasked at protecting us are out there searching for the enemy... ITS A LOST COST TO RESIST... 1 bullet from u and u will see a hail of bullets and maybe a few grenades coming back at u... NO CHANCE of grabbing 1 weapon + spare... I will be the dead guy and my 'crappy' weapon and 2 magazine will be grabbed
Juz tell the enemy where is main camp and who the commander is and lead them there... Although chances of there killing me is high, there is still some probability of them sparing me to help them... but it is 0% of survival if I oppose them... and reduce the casualty to minimum when the war ends early
And there is something which I really dun understand... we r all graded during our BMT we r all graded with those good ones going to the leadership schools and the rest going to different units... SO IF WAR BEAKS OUT, shouldn't those 'good ones' be the ones going to the frontlines instead of us them deemed as lousy soldiers?
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I reckon there are more Asians in Canada than whitesOriginally posted by mhcampboy:what happens if you captured by america??
much bigger the land area.... and the people majority all whites... so how? what happens if they sell you away? escape where? canada? whites...again...
how?
. Seriously have you been there? ahhaaha -
With our grunts getting (good) body armour, the chances of getting captured will be higher...
The question:
Will you be the one who throw down his weapon and surrender when the odds get ugly?
Or will you fight till your last?
In a war, the lucky ones die first... -
You Malaysian ar? They give you BB gun and send you back to tuas to do OTOriginally posted by Heliakaon:Given my current vocation... I'm only armed with a crappy weapon and 2 magazines... If the enemy really comes... might as well throw down my weapon and help them... might be able to save my own skin... Pay me pittance and expect me to be cannon fodder.... DREAM ON SAF!!! -
Heliakoen, you can pass yourself up as a sacrifice. No opposing Army celebrates turncoats as well.
Once you've outlived your usefulness.. well..go figure. -
You will cause the death of your fellow singaporeans but you are the only one who is intact.Even if you left one bullet, you may not shoot yourself because there will always be fear.
Life is precious, even ants struggle to live and here u shoot urself b'cos you r left with only 1 bullet... Why not do something useful like reducing the casualties by leading the enemy straight to the commander as usually it is the commander who refuses to surrender and send his men to their deaths while they sit in the main camp and PLAN and when the enemy really comes charging... they SURRENDER... During my ATAC, I've nvr seen any CO taking up arms and fighting with the men when the enemy comes knocking on their doors
Heliakoen, you can pass yourself up as a sacrifice. No opposing Army celebrates turncoats as well.
Once you've outlived your usefulness.. well..go figure.
Do u think me stupid to release all the secrets to the enemy before the war ends without first securing my escape?
You Malaysian ar? They give you BB gun and send you back to tuas to do OT
Ya I used to be a M'sian until my parents betrayed Malaysia and become Singaporeans... Btw my great-grandparents also betrayed China and became M'sians... so whats the BIG deal about being turncoat? -
Ya I used to be a M'sian until my parents betrayed Malaysia and become Singaporeans... Btw my great-grandparents also betrayed China and became M'sians... so whats the BIG deal about being turncoat? [/b][/quote]
My Grandparents were from South Thailand but my father joined the RAF in Penang and later became a Singaporean in 1965.He taught me what is loyalty and patriotism .I was a soldier myself in the SAF but migrated to another country.Unlike you,I feel like I belong to 3 countries and so if any of these three is being attacked I would fight.I quote a patriotic solidier who said this before he died 'I only regret that I have one life to give for my country'. -
Heng ahz Helikaon's a man in a section in a platoon in a company.
Cheers for UAV and all the other goodies we have now.
Yo dude you are only useful and can do what you said you will do if you know where the HQ is. ATAC and real ops, alot more difference in terms of procedure, security. Alot of stuff you never seen before will suddenly appear so you can kiss your "betrayal" attempts good bye.
And thanks for leading the enemy to where they can be captured for bargaining at the end of the war. You will be charged until jialat jialat by the way. Kekeke. -
Originally posted by Heliakaon:
Your exp at ATAC suck !!! - and you never use brain.
Given my exp from ATAC, usually the few of us juz enough to form a section all armed with the same weaponary and ammo r faced with a few sections fully armed while the ppl who r tasked at protecting us are out there searching for the enemy... ITS A LOST COST TO RESIST... 1 bullet from u and u will see a hail of bullets and maybe a few grenades coming back at u... NO CHANCE of grabbing 1 weapon + spare... I will be the dead guy and my 'crappy' weapon and 2 magazine will be grabbed
Juz tell the enemy where is main camp and who the commander is and lead them there... Although chances of there killing me is high, there is still some probability of them sparing me to help them... but it is 0% of survival if I oppose them... and reduce the casualty to minimum when the war ends early
And there is something which I really dun understand... we r all graded during our BMT we r all graded with those good ones going to the leadership schools and the rest going to different units... SO IF WAR BEAKS OUT, shouldn't those 'good ones' be the ones going to the frontlines instead of us them deemed as lousy soldiers?
Not asking you engage a damn company or platoon ... just look for small group of soldiers ... There is alway some idiot that wonder out to pee ... or to do something funny .... there is alway someone that drop behind..
You just have to plan where you ambush - a section size - the most ... with thick veg all over. Space out the shooting, when they look other side shoot, they will never find you, by the time you drop the 3rd guy, they will run like mad and leaving behind their fallen friends for you to pick !!! -
Originally posted by Heliakaon:
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[b]You will cause the death of your fellow singaporeans but you are the only one who is intact.Even if you left one bullet, you may not shoot yourself because there will always be fear.
Life is precious, even ants struggle to live and here u shoot urself b'cos you r left with only 1 bullet... Why not do something useful like reducing the casualties by leading the enemy straight to the commander as usually it is the commander who refuses to surrender and send his men to their deaths while they sit in the main camp and PLAN and when the enemy really comes charging... they SURRENDER... During my ATAC, I've nvr seen any CO taking up arms and fighting with the men when the enemy comes knocking on their doors
Heliakoen, you can pass yourself up as a sacrifice. No opposing Army celebrates turncoats as well.
Once you've outlived your usefulness.. well..go figure.
Do u think me stupid to release all the secrets to the enemy before the war ends without first securing my escape?
You Malaysian ar? They give you BB gun and send you back to tuas to do OT
Ya I used to be a M'sian until my parents betrayed Malaysia and become Singaporeans... Btw my great-grandparents also betrayed China and became M'sians... so whats the BIG deal about being turncoat? [/b] -
My Grandparents were from South Thailand but my father joined the RAF in Penang and later became a Singaporean in 1965.He taught me what is loyalty and patriotism .I was a soldier myself in the SAF but migrated to another country.Unlike you,I feel like I belong to 3 countries and so if any of these three is being attacked I would fight.I quote a patriotic solidier who said this before he died 'I only regret that I have one life to give for my country'.
Gd for u... but to be a patriotic soldier u must first love that country as the direct chinese tranlsation of patriotic is 'ai guo' love country'. Then how to love that country when u had suffered injustic, unfair treatment and from hypocrisy from that country's government... Try asking the Sunnis in Iraq to be patriotic to the new government now... maybe u might find some who actually are... those who helped the US topple the saddam regieme... (turncoats)
I also wan to migrate but first I must make myself useful for them to accept me and not to any country la... but counties that take care of their citizens when they r old and useless... not use the money of those who die early to support them... and no such thing as mandatory military service... its slavery in disguise... cannot choose wat to do and cannot quit if I dun like the job...
I wouldn't want to be in a situation like u where u fight for all the countries you lived in... when either of the countries get into conflict with another u cannot join either side as they will view u with suspicion... best to stick to one
Heng ahz Helikaon's a man in a section in a platoon in a company.
Cheers for UAV and all the other goodies we have now.
Yo dude you are only useful and can do what you said you will do if you know where the HQ is. ATAC and real ops, alot more difference in terms of procedure, security. Alot of stuff you never seen before will suddenly appear so you can kiss your "betrayal" attempts good bye.
And thanks for leading the enemy to where they can be captured for bargaining at the end of the war. You will be charged until jialat jialat by the way. Kekeke.
SAF is a defensive (cowardly) army meaning they will not attack other countries so the war will most likely take place in Singapore... some things like the positions of the anti-air guns and entrances into the underground fortress in Bt Timah r not likely to change as that who require a lot of resources... and to u in to a small secret... maybe u noe... the ST building at the end of rifle range road which cannot be seen on street directory... is actually a ammo dump... I actually saw a ballastic missile there... Ya... maybe I will be CHARGED until JIALAT JIALAT by the enemy for HELPING them DEFEATING SAF... anyways I wouldn't be sticking ard when the war ends or even b4 the war begins which I think might anytime soon given S'pore's foreign policies when situated in mostly muslim region
Your exp at ATAC suck !!! - and you never use brain.
Not asking you engage a damn company or platoon ... just look for small group of soldiers ... There is alway some idiot that wonder out to pee ... or to do something funny .... there is alway someone that drop behind..
You just have to plan where you ambush - a section size - the most ... with thick veg all over. Space out the shooting, when they look other side shoot, they will never find you, by the time you drop the 3rd guy, they will run like mad and leaving behind their fallen friends for you to pick !!!
Ya maybe my exp at ATAC suck... maybe u have not seen a combat driver during ATAC but usually we ferry the combatants to the frontline and we when they r out there SEARCHING for the enemy... we r ORDER to STAY at the extraction pt and WAIT (sitting ducks)... dunno why the enemy recce always coms their HQ our location when the combatants who should be ones protecting us r out there... I tried to pick a spot a distance away from the vehicles among the foilage but kena suan by my sergeant 'HOW TO PROTECT YOUR VEHICLE FROM THERE'... in the end the whole section were positioned in a trench in front of the vehicle... when the enemies comes... a grenade flew into the trench and the umpire whistle... the whole section was KIA on the second day... spent another few days waiting in the main camp... imagine getting killed b'cos u follow the orders of some son of a b*t*h... life is too precious to be lost at another's folly -
Originally posted by Heliakaon:
Should u even be talking abt wat u saw in the course of u'r NS experience? And I don't think u've seen enuff to call the SAF a cowardly army;none of us had for the matter.In any case, famed armies since Hannibal's had advocated attack as the best form of defence;what makes u think that ours is any different? Besides,depending on the circumstances,being in a trench when you're in a fixed defensive position would actually make some sense, isn't it?
[b]My Grandparents were from South Thailand but my father joined the RAF in Penang and later became a Singaporean in 1965.He taught me what is loyalty and patriotism .I was a soldier myself in the SAF but migrated to another country.Unlike you,I feel like I belong to 3 countries and so if any of these three is being attacked I would fight.I quote a patriotic solidier who said this before he died 'I only regret that I have one life to give for my country'.
Gd for u... but to be a patriotic soldier u must first love that country as the direct chinese tranlsation of patriotic is 'ai guo' love country'. Then how to love that country when u had suffered injustic, unfair treatment and from hypocrisy from that country's government... Try asking the Sunnis in Iraq to be patriotic to the new government now... maybe u might find some who actually are... those who helped the US topple the saddam regieme... (turncoats)
I also wan to migrate but first I must make myself useful for them to accept me and not to any country la... but counties that take care of their citizens when they r old and useless... not use the money of those who die early to support them... and no such thing as mandatory military service... its slavery in disguise... cannot choose wat to do and cannot quit if I dun like the job...
I wouldn't want to be in a situation like u where u fight for all the countries you lived in... when either of the countries get into conflict with another u cannot join either side as they will view u with suspicion... best to stick to one
Heng ahz Helikaon's a man in a section in a platoon in a company.
Cheers for UAV and all the other goodies we have now.
Yo dude you are only useful and can do what you said you will do if you know where the HQ is. ATAC and real ops, alot more difference in terms of procedure, security. Alot of stuff you never seen before will suddenly appear so you can kiss your "betrayal" attempts good bye.
And thanks for leading the enemy to where they can be captured for bargaining at the end of the war. You will be charged until jialat jialat by the way. Kekeke.
SAF is a defensive (cowardly) army meaning they will not attack other countries so the war will most likely take place in Singapore... some things like the positions of the anti-air guns and entrances into the underground fortress in Bt Timah r not likely to change as that who require a lot of resources... and to u in to a small secret... maybe u noe... the ST building at the end of rifle range road which cannot be seen on street directory... is actually a ammo dump... I actually saw a ballastic missile there... Ya... maybe I will be CHARGED until JIALAT JIALAT by the enemy for HELPING them DEFEATING SAF... anyways I wouldn't be sticking ard when the war ends or even b4 the war begins which I think might anytime soon given S'pore's foreign policies when situated in mostly muslim region
Your exp at ATAC suck !!! - and you never use brain.
Not asking you engage a damn company or platoon ... just look for small group of soldiers ... There is alway some idiot that wonder out to pee ... or to do something funny .... there is alway someone that drop behind..
You just have to plan where you ambush - a section size - the most ... with thick veg all over. Space out the shooting, when they look other side shoot, they will never find you, by the time you drop the 3rd guy, they will run like mad and leaving behind their fallen friends for you to pick !!!
Ya maybe my exp at ATAC suck... maybe u have not seen a combat driver during ATAC but usually we ferry the combatants to the frontline and we when they r out there SEARCHING for the enemy... we r ORDER to STAY at the extraction pt and WAIT (sitting ducks)... dunno why the enemy recce always coms their HQ our location when the combatants who should be ones protecting us r out there... I tried to pick a spot a distance away from the vehicles among the foilage but kena suan by my sergeant 'HOW TO PROTECT YOUR VEHICLE FROM THERE'... in the end the whole section were positioned in a trench in front of the vehicle... when the enemies comes... a grenade flew into the trench and the umpire whistle... the whole section was KIA on the second day... spent another few days waiting in the main camp... imagine getting killed b'cos u follow the orders of some son of a b*t*h... life is too precious to be lost at another's folly [/b]
Edited for missing out on a word. -
Yes... bring in a trench when in a fixed defensive position is a gd idea but not when u have limited firepower and ammo and not to mention manpower... For me I would rather hide among the foilage a distance away and pick the enemies from a distance... something like how a sniper fightOriginally posted by FiReDuKe:Should u even be talking abt wat u saw in the course of u'r NS experience? And I don't think u've seen enuff to call the SAF a cowardly army;none of us had for the matter.In any case, famed armies since Hannibal's had advocated attack as the best form of defence;what makes u think that ours is any different? Besides,depending on the circumstances,being in a trench when you're in a fixed defensive position would actually make some sense, isn't it?
Edited for missing out on a word. -
like i said befor this topic is stupid...now it getting dangerous...close it
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double post
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Now i understand from your description - I do not blame you for having so poor military thinking - all thanks to some idiot instructors ! You should have shot them yourself.Originally posted by Heliakaon:Yes... bring in a trench when in a fixed defensive position is a gd idea but not when u have limited firepower and ammo and not to mention manpower... For me I would rather hide among the foilage a distance away and pick the enemies from a distance... something like how a sniper fight
First you ferry combatants to the frontline ... if it is the damn front line, you are suppose to drop them and get the hell out of there, back to a more secured area to wait for call to pick them up again !!! You do not move into extraction point till destinated time or called.
For all my combat drivers - my theory to them is alway vehicle is your asset ! Without it = what the use of driver ! If i want the place to be defended - i would have left protection party ! The best way to protect vehicles is first sign of trouble jump on it and get it hell out of there. Whole section in front of in a foxhole is not the smart way ! The better way is to station people out to some foilage so to detect enemy, first sign of them - got all the vehicle out ..... !!! Take the vehicle and run - that the best protection... fight only when you have no choice.
Your sergent should be shot ! I agree there is some idiots commander out there who are nuts and not practical ! -
If it is stupid to you, go away and stop critisizing for the second time. Why do you bother to come back to this post again?Originally posted by tankfanatic:like i said befor this topic is stupid...now it getting dangerous...close it
If you want to discuss some other things,go to the defence talk forum and post your "wonderful' insights.
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thread has substance....but heliakon damn boliaoOriginally posted by crusader91:If it is stupid to you, go away and stop critisizing for the second time. Why do you bother to come back to this post again?
If you want to discuss some other things,go to the defence talk forum and post your "wonderful' insights. -
the more u layan this Heliakaon...god knows what ever secret he will spit next.
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Heliakaon if you consider the SAF to be a lau lan and farked up Army, by all means keep that yourself. I'm not suppressing your freedom of speech,by all means go ahead. But let me remind you, our young men serve for a purpose. 2yrs of our lives are not for nothing, for when the time comes for us to bear arms and stand firm to show our resolve, I have no doubt that many of us will.
Not because we are protecting the govt.,we will not be fighting as soldiers but as citizens protecting what's ours. We are not fighting simply for the material gain of ground, but we are fighting for our families, friends,values, believes and way of life. I'm not asking you to defend the govt. , I'm simply asking you to take responsibility as a citizen to protect what is yours. Call me an idealist, but in this country, where almost everything is controlled, the only free thing left to protect is our ideas. If you wish to be a turn coat, I won't call you a coward, I believe you are entitled to your believes, and you can choose whatever choices you wish to make. However, would you want to live a life where there's nothing you value? When during times of difficulty, you do not stand firm on your own believes and simply cross over to the simpler or winning side?Whats the point of living then I ask you?
Trust me, what you encountered in ATEC, is not the best representation of actual warfare. Its a "carefully" scripted list of events thats supposed to happen according to the timeline. And that 3SG that told you to form up with the rest...is doing what's "SOP". Also, from what you elaborated, it doesn't make tactical sense to me for you to get out of the vehicle and to dig a foxhole, fire trench. You should simply stay in your vehicle, at the first sign of trouble if you can help it, you are NOT TO ENGAGE THE ENEMY, but simply to drive away. There's a saying "He Who Runs Away Today, Lives To Fight Another Day". Your primary job isn't to be engaged as a combatant, its to drive. So drive away as fast and as far as you can! Simple as that.
And the reason for posting this, its because I feel after interacting with the exchange students in my school from Mexico and France. I feel that they are people who live for today and what happens tomorrow, we will worry about it when it comes. And that's a bloody wrong mentality, its like why do we save and not spend every cent we have? The Mexicans and French have conscription as well, but on a "luck-draw" basis. But thing is, if either countries go to conflict, Mexico can rely on the Big Brother next door the good ol' USA while the French have the FFL and their European Union friends to give them a hand. What about us? Yes we have the FPDA, Aussie, UK, NZ, M'sia. I can assure you if we go into conflict, sensitive as it may be, it would be our neighbours from up north or down south. How long do you reckon it will take for any aid in the form of Aussie, UK, NZ to arrive? If the US wants a share of it, how long do they need to arrive as well? We have to rely on nobody but our own friggin selves for at least 1wk. In this day and age, 1wk in war is helluva long time. Thus, I hope you put some thought into what I posted, for I know that the only free people are those whom are willing to fight for their freedom. And when I fight, its not because I have to or voted for the government, but its because I believe that giving your life for something you believe in is the greatest thing anybody can do. And I believe.
**PS. whatever you see, please keep them to yourself.** -
North and South eh.
One theory is that they might end up being our allies. -
Originally posted by LazerLordz:North and South eh.
One theory is that they might end up being our allies. 
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Regarding the five power defence arrangement ,i think it is as uneffective as un. No one would be willing to send their soldiers to die for other country..........
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Unless that country's existence and safety directly affects their own's existence.Originally posted by crusader91:Regarding the five power defence arrangement ,i think it is as uneffective as un. No one would be willing to send their soldiers to die for other country.......... -
Well, maybe all of u had misinterpreted my posts... like the forum title says... "What if you are a pow?"... that means I will try to strike a deal with the enemy when I am captured and my life is in DANGER... dun take it as though I will betray SAF at the start of the war... I dun do things that harms others and dun benefit me... that includes taking up arms to defend S'pore if there nothing worthy left to defend...