Qns on SG arms exports.........
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Both America and Russians sell diluted version of a particular version of weapons to other countries. This is even so towards those nations very close to them. The Russian are also known to sell "monkey" versions of MBT and BMPs to the other countries and they equipped the satellite states with weaker weapons during USSR era.
So my qns is, so does ST sell diluted version of their weapons to other countries? Eg. if lets say country X is interested in the Bionix IFV, will MINDEF allow ST to sell a thinner armour, weaker firepower BX to them? Similarly, ST is working with OTOKAR to market the TERREX IFV to Turkey armed forces. But, MY purchases and is interested in purchasing more equipment from Turkey. Will this compromise our security if one day OTOKAR decides to sell the TERREX to MAF?
Another issue is the protection of sensitive info on military equipments. How much info will ST be willing to disclose to the buyer? I mean any foreign country can come forward to ST as a potential buyer, but in fact, they are trying to get info on some sensitive data on eg. BX or Tx.............. -
You are asking questions that crosses into the line of Strategic Intelligence.
The questions you ask can only be answered by people of at least LTC rank and above, with experience in weapon co-development with DSTA and ST, and of course they will not be authorised to make public such information.
It will be impossible for any civilian here to answer your question here without breaching security in the very first place.
I don't think you will get your answer, at least not a genuine one. -
We bought diluted versions of the apache, f-15s and f-16s, and possibly alot of diluted leopard tanks coming our way.
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The MAF purchasers will have to be pretty dumb to buy it. But then they are!Originally posted by equlus84:Both America and Russians sell diluted version of a particular version of weapons to other countries. This is even so towards those nations very close to them. The Russian are also known to sell "monkey" versions of MBT and BMPs to the other countries and they equipped the satellite states with weaker weapons during USSR era.
So my qns is, so does ST sell diluted version of their weapons to other countries? Eg. if lets say country X is interested in the Bionix IFV, will MINDEF allow ST to sell a thinner armour, weaker firepower BX to them? Similarly, ST is working with OTOKAR to market the TERREX IFV to Turkey armed forces. But, MY purchases and is interested in purchasing more equipment from Turkey. Will this compromise our security if one day OTOKAR decides to sell the TERREX to MAF?
Another issue is the protection of sensitive info on military equipments. How much info will ST be willing to disclose to the buyer? I mean any foreign country can come forward to ST as a potential buyer, but in fact, they are trying to get info on some sensitive data on eg. BX or Tx.............. -
The SAF had no problem to purchase 'diluted' Apache, F-15s and F-16s but will insist on being given the rights to access the 'software source codes' that operate these platforms.Originally posted by ditzy:We bought diluted versions of the apache, f-15s and f-16s, and possibly alot of diluted leopard tanks coming our way.
MINDEF, DSTA and the SAF will insist on the rights also to make changes and upgrades from third party sources, as well as from our own R+D.
Sometime back, our PIONEER magazine featured the 'Black Lab' of DSTA, which had an article of our own Singapore Electrical Engineer - {bonded SAF Scholar} - successfully building an on-board computer, which is a fraction of the original US made size, and with double the processor used in the original unit in the F-16. It allowed mission plans to be programmed into the on-board computer at half the time needed.
Singapore is not the only country demanding such rights to control assets that have been purchased - as can be seen from a 2005 report concerning the dispute that UK has with the USA over the F-35 JSF program.
Singapore is a paying participant to the F-35 JSF program, and we should be taking a serious view if the UK Government cannot succeed in convincing the US to change its policy concerning the treatment of its partners when protecting military technologies used in joint military development projects.
If we can make local upgrades to the more sophisticated flying platforms, we will have less problems in upgrading the Leopards - especially with the huge amount of experience gained from the Bionix and Primus programs.
Soon our submarines will perform like dolphins too.
On the question of 'Arms Exports' - like all very intelligent manufacturer, the equipment will have built-in obsolescence feature, and self-degrading material.
The end-user will have to return to the original source for change and upgrades, unless they have a similarly capable team of designers and engineers to perform reverse engineering.
The time taken in the process will result in new technological development overtaking their efforts. -
Unless you are deeply involved in the industry, you never know if the stats of the hardware are real...
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The TS was asking if Singapore sells diluted stuff to others....this is something nobody here can answer. The question is very high-level, but these are strategic and political matters that it is not possible to have an answer through public means.
If anybody here can answer that, he would be lying, because this is something beyond discussion in public.
As for whether we got diluted stuff...no I don't think we got them diluted. We have the the best Apache, the best F-16D+.
As for Leopards from Germany...come on, tanks are just tanks, how diluted can they get? Singapore Armour is not stupid you know? like what? 120mm gun is actually 118mm? Or they removed 1cm of the armour? Oh please! -
in actual factOriginally posted by Atobe:
Sometime back, our PIONEER magazine featured the 'Black Lab' of DSTA, which had an article of our own Singapore Electrical Engineer - {bonded SAF Scholar} - successfully building an on-board computer, which is a fraction of the original US made size, and with double the processor used in the original unit in the F-16. It allowed mission plans to be programmed into the on-board computer at half the time needed.
this on-board computer can only last a shorter time than the original US one
agree ?
singapore arms exports are super transparent, crystal clear... -
Originally posted by Atobe:
in regards to source code for our fighters prior to 911. i m not sure if the US release to us during the initial purchase. Bare in mind that when US sell weapon to SG they do not want to unintentionally create arm race in the region.
The SAF had no problem to purchase 'diluted' Apache, F-15s and F-16s but will insist on being given the rights to access the 'software source codes' that operate these platforms.
MINDEF, DSTA and the SAF will insist on the rights also to make changes and upgrades from third party sources, as well as from our own R+D.
Sometime back, our PIONEER magazine featured the 'Black Lab' of DSTA, which had an article of our own Singapore Electrical Engineer - {bonded SAF Scholar} - successfully building an on-board computer, which is a fraction of the original US made size, and with double the processor used in the original unit in the F-16. It allowed mission plans to be programmed into the on-board computer at half the time needed.
Singapore is not the only country demanding such rights to control assets that have been purchased - as can be seen from a 2005 report concerning [b]the dispute that UK has with the USA over the F-35 JSF program.
Singapore is a paying participant to the F-35 JSF program, and we should be taking a serious view if the UK Government cannot succeed in convincing the US to change its policy concerning the treatment of its partners when protecting military technologies used in joint military development projects.
If we can make local upgrades to the more sophisticated flying platforms, we will have less problems in upgrading the Leopards - especially with the huge amount of experience gained from the Bionix and Primus programs.
Soon our submarines will perform like dolphins too.
On the question of 'Arms Exports' - like all very intelligent manufacturer, the equipment will have built-in obsolescence feature, and self-degrading material.
The end-user will have to return to the original source for change and upgrades, unless they have a similarly capable team of designers and engineers to perform reverse engineering.
The time taken in the process will result in new technological development overtaking their efforts.
[/b]
I hear that SG get the source code from another place. -
Really? And they send you an annual report every year issit?Originally posted by I_love_my_toilet:singapore arms exports are super transparent, crystal clear... -
I saw one photo that Sar 21 exported to morroco for their imperial guards or what..
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wahahaha nopeOriginally posted by chino65:Really? And they send you an annual report every year issit?
but i get to see the report annually -
U get to see the number on the annual report but u do not see what is the menu on the annual report.Originally posted by I_love_my_toilet:wahahaha nope
but i get to see the report annually -
Tank armour... Different types...Originally posted by specialOps:The TS was asking if Singapore sells diluted stuff to others....this is something nobody here can answer. The question is very high-level, but these are strategic and political matters that it is not possible to have an answer through public means.
If anybody here can answer that, he would be lying, because this is something beyond discussion in public.
As for whether we got diluted stuff...no I don't think we got them diluted. We have the the best Apache, the best F-16D+.
As for Leopards from Germany...come on, tanks are just tanks, how diluted can they get? Singapore Armour is not stupid you know? like what? 120mm gun is actually 118mm? Or they removed 1cm of the armour? Oh please! -
hahaha okOriginally posted by Arapahoe:U get to see the number on the annual report but u do not see what is the menu on the annual report.
type, number, customers name, time inclusive -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moroccan_Royal_GuardOriginally posted by crusader91:I saw one photo that Sar 21 exported to morroco for their imperial guards or what.. -
we need to import chuck norris
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Yes.. we buy diluted stuff. But we modify on our own.Originally posted by specialOps:The TS was asking if Singapore sells diluted stuff to others....this is something nobody here can answer. The question is very high-level, but these are strategic and political matters that it is not possible to have an answer through public means.
If anybody here can answer that, he would be lying, because this is something beyond discussion in public.
As for whether we got diluted stuff...no I don't think we got them diluted. We have the the best Apache, the best F-16D+.
As for Leopards from Germany...come on, tanks are just tanks, how diluted can they get? Singapore Armour is not stupid you know? like what? 120mm gun is actually 118mm? Or they removed 1cm of the armour? Oh please!
Like PLAAF buy some lousy Su-27SK and now they come up with J-11B which has modern cockpit and multi role abilities... -
that is when we 1st brought our F-5 and A-4...even (our )F-16A/B is using blk 40 C/D airframe instead of the usual Blk 15 airframe......Originally posted by zenden9:Yes.. we buy diluted stuff. But we modify on our own.
Like PLAAF buy some lousy Su-27SK and now they come up with J-11B which has modern cockpit and multi role abilities...
As of now...i can say that our current Air Force is pretty up to date..... -
would it be correct to assume that is what they want to show you. what about those in the black.Originally posted by I_love_my_toilet:hahaha ok
type, number, customers name, time inclusive -
sorry theres no blackOriginally posted by Arapahoe:would it be correct to assume that is what they want to show you. what about those in the black.
sure abt that