RSAF search for new fighter to replace the F-5s
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Advantage of the F/A-18D:
- Better low-speed manoeverability
- Better reliability (Two-engine + made-for-carrier engineering)
Disadvantege:
- Expensive
- Higher maintenance (two-engine + more expensive parts)
- Can't share technology and "special equipment" with a special ally.
Advantage of F-16:
- Much better agility.
- Technology and equipment sharing with a special ally
- Low cost
- Outwardly more defensive rather than offensive weapon (Less likely for political hoo-haa)
Disadvantage:
- Very slightly lower payload
- Shorter range
Overall ... F-16 still more worthwhile buy. -
Interesting. Thanks!
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F-16 shorter range ? Sorry from what i know F-16 have longer range then F-18 ! F-18 both engine - eat up fuel faster !! Also F-18C/D is so short on range that they have to use F-14 in Afangistan to do bombing instead which was a total embrassement , the super hornet F-18E/F increase in size to extend the range but give up some performance - still they lost in range of the F-16Originally posted by specialOps:Advantage of the F/A-18D:
- Better low-speed manoeverability
- Better reliability (Two-engine + made-for-carrier engineering)
Disadvantege:
- Expensive
- Higher maintenance (two-engine + more expensive parts)
- Can't share technology and "special equipment" with a special ally.
Advantage of F-16:
- Much better agility.
- Technology and equipment sharing with a special ally
- Low cost
- Outwardly more defensive rather than offensive weapon (Less likely for political hoo-haa)
Disadvantage:
- Very slightly lower payload
- Shorter range
Overall ... F-16 still more worthwhile buy.
F-18C/D
Ferry: 1,546 nautical miles (1777.9 miles/2,844 km
F-18EF
Ferry range: 1,800 nmi (2,070 mi, 3,330 km) (range without ordnance)
F-16
Ferry range: >3,200 mi (2,800 NM, 4,800 km) -
No leh...F/A-18D is listed at 1800nm, and F-16C/D at 1740nm.
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according to the US navy fact file...
the F-18D with 2 sidewinder and max external fuel tank has a ferry range of 1,546 nautical miles.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=1100&tid=1200&ct=1
while the F-16C/D block 52+ with max external fuel tank (no 600 gal tank, no CFT) has a ferry range of 2,450 nautical miles.
the 3,200 nautical miles quoted for F-16C/D is the ferry range of the F-16C/D or F-16I using CFT or CFT + 600 gal external tank. -
in short F/A-18 eat up fuel pretty fast....thus shorter leg...the only wow for hornet is better agility n higher AoA
The hornet is actually based on the design of F-5 if you see carefully...... -
The Hornet is not as agile as claimed, really. Comparing a Cat I loaded hornet against viper, the Viper just has to avoid the hornet's first turn. At least IMO, hornets only get to make snaphots. Vipers can really work the vertical to give the hornet drivers hell.Originally posted by duotiga83:The advantage of Hornet at that time is slightly more agile & higher AoA than F-16 also -
interesting comparison between Hornet and Falcon
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1782-sid-0fe2787dc85936b684725068df627041.html
Shotgun, you are correct. Hornet eat up more fuel and lesser range, agility than hornet, and is a maintenance hog also.... -
guys,Originally posted by tripwire:according to the US navy fact file...
the F-18D with 2 sidewinder and max external fuel tank has a ferry range of 1,546 nautical miles.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=1100&tid=1200&ct=1
while the F-16C/D block 52+ with max external fuel tank (no 600 gal tank, no CFT) has a ferry range of 2,450 nautical miles.
the 3,200 nautical miles quoted for F-16C/D is the ferry range of the F-16C/D or F-16I using CFT or CFT + 600 gal external tank.
does the F-16C/D block 52+ the latest version with all that bump and added fuel capacity?
if thats the case it should be F-16C/D block 52+ versus F/A-18E/F Super Hornet ......and not F/A-18C/D Hornet
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I check out the forums once in a while. Very heated discussions and quite funny too. The "INO" user claims to be a hornet driver, and likes to insist on his "9g" point.Originally posted by duotiga83:interesting comparison between Hornet and Falcon
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-1782-sid-0fe2787dc85936b684725068df627041.html Shotgun, you are correct. Hornet eat up more fuel and lesser range, agility than hornet, and is a maintenance hog also....Fourth. There is a 7.5g limiter on the Rhino. It can also be lower depending on the aircrafts configuration, but not higher so 7.5 is a hard limit. "I" and other Rhino drivers can spike it over 7.5 during certain situations. This is called an overstress and make the maintainers unhappy as it gives them extra work to do.
Our viper maintenance aren't worried until it crosses the 9.5 mark.
There are certain aircraft you don't get into a scissors with, the hornet's one of them.
Off-boresight weapons capability changes the playing ground quite a bit. But my initial post was in speculation of the RSAF-hornet assessment. -
Originally posted by tankfanatic:
Not all Block 50/52s have Conformal Fuel Tanks. We do have them though. Really neat. 11000lbs of fuel instead of the usual 7000lb w/o external fuel tanks. Minimal drag penalty too. I bet the hornet drivers would love something like that.
[b]
guys,
does the F-16C/D block 52+ the latest version with all that bump and added fuel capacity?
if thats the case it should be F-16C/D block 52+ versus F/A-18E/F Super Hornet ......and not F/A-18C/D Hornet
Block 50/52 and Super Hornets aren't comparable except in handling though. Superbug's radar, avionics, man-machine interfaces outclasses any F-16 C/D.
One problem with the F-16 in high G manuevers would perhaps be (strangely enough) the reclining seats. If I don't hear wrongly, the neck strain is pretty bad when pulling G's while maintaining eyeballs on the target. Add a heavy off-boresight helmet, multiply that helmet's weight by the number of G's u're pulling... OUCH. -
You have no idea how wrong you are.Originally posted by specialOps:Advantage of the F/A-18D:
- Better low-speed manoeverability
- Better reliability (Two-engine + made-for-carrier engineering)
Disadvantege:
- Expensive
- Higher maintenance (two-engine + more expensive parts)
- Can't share technology and "special equipment" with a special ally.
Advantage of F-16:
- Much better agility.
- Technology and equipment sharing with a special ally
- Low cost
- Outwardly more defensive rather than offensive weapon (Less likely for political hoo-haa)
Disadvantage:
- Very slightly lower payload
- Shorter range
Overall ... F-16 still more worthwhile buy.
Try getting an F-16 to carry one of the following:
1. Harpoon
2. AMRAAM
3. AMRAAM + Harpoon
Pull 3G, lucky the wings are still there. -
it shld be F-16E/F vs F/A-18E/F as the Rhino just going to have AESA radar operational also.....Originally posted by tankfanatic:guys,
does the F-16C/D block 52+ the latest version with all that bump and added fuel capacity?
if thats the case it should be F-16C/D block 52+ versus F/A-18E/F Super Hornet ......and not F/A-18C/D Hornet
btw this is 1 hell of a nice Air to Air shot of Poland Blk 52+ F-16
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I don't get your point.Originally posted by touchstone_2000:You have no idea how wrong you are.
Try getting an F-16 to carry one of the following:
1. Harpoon
2. AMRAAM
3. AMRAAM + Harpoon
Pull 3G, lucky the wings are still there.
Air launched harpoon weighs about 1100lbs. The F-16s is cleared to carry GBU-24s which are in the 2000lb class AND carry 2 AMRAAMs and perhaps 2 winders. And naturally, the flight computer prevents the aircraft from pulling excessive Gs in a Cat III config. How will the wings fall off?
Certain F-16s are integrated with the Harpoon. IIRC, they belong to norway. So getting F-16s to carry harpoons is clearly not an issue.
F-16s can lug up to 6 AMRAAMs and pull 9 Gs. 6 AMRAAMs are considered Cat I.
I don't doubt F-16s ability to carry Harpoons and AMRAAMs on wingtip either. -
Sure does not look like the wings are coming off soon - maybe you are the one that is wrong !!!Originally posted by touchstone_2000:You have no idea how wrong you are.
Try getting an F-16 to carry one of the following:
1. Harpoon
2. AMRAAM
3. AMRAAM + Harpoon
Pull 3G, lucky the wings are still there.
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South Korean and Taiwanese F-16s can fire AGM-84 Harpoon. Norwegian F-16s use their own Penguin anti-ship missiles, AFAIK.Originally posted by Shotgun:I don't get your point.
Air launched harpoon weighs about 1100lbs. The F-16s is cleared to carry GBU-24s which are in the 2000lb class AND carry 2 AMRAAMs and perhaps 2 winders. And naturally, the flight computer prevents the aircraft from pulling excessive Gs in a Cat III config. How will the wings fall off?
Certain F-16s are integrated with the Harpoon. IIRC, they belong to norway. So getting F-16s to carry harpoons is clearly not an issue.
F-16s can lug up to 6 AMRAAMs and pull 9 Gs. 6 AMRAAMs are considered Cat I.
I don't doubt F-16s ability to carry Harpoons and AMRAAMs on wingtip either.
Cheers,
Sunho -
if i am not wrong that is not Harpoon, that is PGM-2000 from MDBA. It is called Al Hakeem-B locallyOriginally posted by storywolf:Sure does not look like the wings are coming off soon - maybe you are the one that is wrong !!! -
Yep that is not harpoon.Originally posted by duotiga83:if i am not wrong that is not Harpoon, that is PGM-2000 from MDBA. It is called Al Hakeem-B locally
I post another picture on top of it that is harpoon. -
ok, thank you my error for having old info.
Does anyone have a photo of RSAF blk 52+? The model with the extra bulges near the radome. At about 10 and 2'o clock seen from the front. -
RoCAF F-16 with Harpoon
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Originally posted by touchstone_2000:ok, thank you my error for having old info.
Does anyone have a photo of RSAF blk 52+? The model with the extra bulges near the radome. At about 10 and 2'o clock seen from the front. -
Nice shots!Originally posted by duotiga83:
The lil bulges located around the F-16s in certain Israeli models are sensors for detecting missile launches. As for the RSAF models, I can't say.
I think last AA2006 someone posted up some static display shots of our Viper-Ds with the bulges in full view.