RSAF search for new fighter to replace the F-5s
-
Don't fire me on this, SU is a great piece of hardware, but the software is as important. training, strategies development, tactics, maintenance, optimise in the utilisation of the avionics, etc, etc. All contributes to the how potent this weapons will be in the battle space.
Plausibly true my friend. I do not regard thier airforces very highly. hehe. Take the Malaysians for example. The airforce and government should be sued numerous times over the deaths of countless pilots and servicemen due to shoddy servicing and derelict aircraft. You know that it is like so because even relatively newer aircrafts like the hawks are raining from the skies. A Sukhoi crash(god forbid) would literally turn the airforce into a practical joke.
But you are not going into battle with this presumption would you? So, I disagree with you in this respect. We need more hardware baby.
-
You also have to understand, maintaining a zoo with various species is really not easy. So accident figures are understandable...
-
frm the looks of F-15....even if we are the LAST order for the strike eagles, avioincs and engines upgrade might become costly too.....since we are so call the "last" strike eagle operator to operate the massive a/c we have. our procurement has somewhat asked the USAF to upgrade their F-15C radars to our standards for their ANG if you do not know the news.......Originally posted by Arthas79:The F-15SGs can remain viable for a long time still. Can our Blk 52/54 vipers be viable in the long run(say post 2015)against newer opponents ? We would not buy Vipers for them to last less than ten years and watch them become obsolete. And you would need newer planes to operate and synergise better with newer over-arching systems like the CAEWs.
If you are looking at the newer vipers, I think they can cost as much as > $60 million a pop with AESA, CFTs, etc. You might as well get the F-15SGs which has greater range(hence more flexibility), greater carriage and a more powerful(second only to the F-22`s radar i think) AESA radar.
UAE`s 80 Blk 60 vipers which comes with the latest avionics(including AESA) and systems cost as much as 8 billion USD in 2000(excluding inflation). Are you willing to fork out that much money when you can get just as many F-15s which would increase your capabilities significantly? Why do you think the latest F-16s were dropped during the competition? We could have gone for an all F-16 fleet. But we did not.
.................................................................................................................
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/global_strike/news/2007/q4/071009c_nr.html
Boeing Awarded $70 Million Contract for Enhanced F-15C Radar
ST. LOUIS, Oct. 09, 2007 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] has been awarded a $70 million contract to begin upgrading U.S. Air Force and Air National Guard F-15C Eagles with the APG-63(V)3 Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar. The upgrades will begin in first quarter 2009.
The Raytheon APG-63(V)3 AESA radar combines the operationally-proven APG-63(V)2 AESA software and the revolutionary hardware advances of the F/A 18E/F Super Hornet's APG-79 AESA radar to create a high performance system that is reliable and affordable.
"The AESA radar greatly improves the Eagle pilot's situational awareness, targeting range and accuracy," said Jim Means, director of Proprietary Programs for Boeing Global Strike Systems.
The AESA radar will ensure the F-15Cs continue their combat-proven air supremacy well into the 21st century. The AESA radar also will reduce the cost of maintaining the F-15C due to its improved reliability.
The APG-63(V)3 radar is the latest addition in planned upgrades to the F-15C, which have included a fighter-to-fighter data link, GPS navigation and the Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System, enabling network centric operations while employing the latest air-to-air weapons. -
Im not aware that our procurement has nudged the US into upgrading the F15s. I doubt that we will be the last of the F-15 buyers. The Koreans still would want to buy more. Tha Japanese might buy although that there is talk about getting the Typhoons but the US influence is strong. The House of Saud might get some more. Same with the other Gulf states.
Also, present operators would want to upgrade the current batch of F-15s since they still have long life-span left.
All in, you are talking about thousands of F-15s available in the market now and in the near future. I do not think the cost of parts would be that expensive. Conversely, it might have been the case if we had purchased the Rafale which have found few suitors. My two cents..
-
Saudi is getting Typhoons for their Tornadoes replacement.....i can tell you this,if you read the latest AFm issue on USAF 60th anniversary, they having a lot of budget problems for their a/c upgrades & replacments.....F-15 is 1 of the most exp a/c to sell & i can tell you not a lot of countries will be getting it, even if is 2nd hand.....i say is either us or S Korea. Japan is already considering to built their Stealth fighter to replace F-4 phantoms since Uncle Sam would not want to sell F-22A to them.Originally posted by Arthas79:Im not aware that our procurement has nudged the US into upgrading the F15s. I doubt that we will be the last of the F-15 buyers. The Koreans still would want to buy more. Tha Japanese might buy although that there is talk about getting the Typhoons but the US influence is strong. The House of Saud might get some more. Same with the other Gulf states.
Also, present operators would want to upgrade the current batch of F-15s since they still have long life-span left.
All in, you are talking about thousands of F-15s available in the market now and in the near future. I do not think the cost of parts would be that expensive. Conversely, it might have been the case if we had purchased the Rafale which have found few suitors. My two cents.. -
Saudi is getting Typhoons for their Tornadoes replacement.....i can tell you this,if you read the latest AFm issue on USAF 60th anniversary, they having a lot of budget problems for their a/c upgrades & replacments.....F-15 is 1 of the most exp a/c to sell & i can tell you not a lot of countries will be getting it, even if is 2nd hand.....i say is either us or S Korea. Japan is already considering to built their Stealth fighter to replace F-4 phantoms since Uncle Sam would not want to sell F-22A to them.
the Saudis have a rather large aircraft inventory. Tornadoes, F15s, etc. So, what is going to replace their F-15s? Boeing would have more than enough opportunity to sell the F-15s to the Sauds. Add a little arm wrestling and you have a deal. The Sauds are in a rather precarious position. They got somewhat downgraded F15s from the US because of Israel. But who knows? They might be sold newer versions of the F-15s(when the situation permits )to work with the Typhoons because obviously they would not be getting the F-35s anytime soon. I am surprised they are having budget problems. Well, they only need dip into thier oil kitty to get more dollars. I hardly think that is an issue with them. They had just spurlged on 80(?) Typhoons.lol. Just like that.
The other rich Gulf states could be nudged to buy the F-15s as well. Recently, there was even a report which commented on Iraq`s airforce buying F15s and F16s; via its oil money.
It will be many more years before anything concrete comes out of the Japanese stealth fighter project; if any. If anything, they are trying to leverage on that to get access to the F-22s. Meanwhile, what are thier choices? Typhoons? Possible. F-15SGs. Likely due the fact that they already operate F-15s and the US lobby(which is stronger than S.K incidentally).
F-15 has good company with the Typhoons, Rafale, Gripen, F-16 blk 60 and even the sukhois when it comes to high upfront costs. -
i am not saying abt exports...i am saying abt USA having budgetary problem in regrds of maintining their a/c into nxt gen warfare...indeed they have F-22 now in their arnesal, but did you know that while the SDM testing, F-22 actually flameout twice during testing? now the F-35 is being delayed even longer due to the sensors problem. F-15 they only upgrade not all , just a portion of the strength into AESA capable and engine epgrade ( PW engines to GE engines, Lantirn to Sniper XR) A-10 also a certain no iinto A-10C, with upgraded avioics, but the engine issues(underpowered) is still there. KC-135 , they are still thinking abt replacing with it.....CV-22 just operational.... etc etc...Originally posted by Arthas79:the Saudis have a rather large aircraft inventory. Tornadoes, F15s, etc. So, what is going to replace their F-15s? Boeing would have more than enough opportunity to sell the F-15s to the Sauds. Add a little arm wrestling and you have a deal. The Sauds are in a rather precarious position. They got somewhat downgraded F15s from the US because of Israel. But who knows? They might be sold newer versions of the F-15s(when the situation permits )to work with the Typhoons because obviously they would not be getting the F-35s anytime soon. I am surprised they are having budget problems. Well, they only need dip into thier oil kitty to get more dollars. I hardly think that is an issue with them. They had just spurlged on 80(?) Typhoons.lol. Just like that.
The other rich Gulf states could be nudged to buy the F-15s as well. Recently, there was even a report which commented on Iraq`s airforce buying F15s and F16s; via its oil money.
It will be many more years before anything concrete comes out of the Japanese stealth fighter project; if any. If anything, they are trying to leverage on that to get access to the F-22s. Meanwhile, what are thier choices? Typhoons? Possible. F-15SGs. Likely due the fact that they already operate F-15s and the US lobby(which is stronger than S.K incidentally).
F-15 has good company with the Typhoons, Rafale, Gripen, F-16 blk 60 and even the sukhois when it comes to high upfront costs.
btw did you really followup news or just by hearsay? I am seriously not optimistic the way US is handling their aviation industy....the Europeans n India,China n yes Russians are catching up........they are just too complacement at the moment..... -
Surely, you would not expect tests to be successful all the time? The typhoon has even crashed and is very late. You do not hear much about Russian tests or developments because thier media is less adventurous but it does not mean it is not there.
Oh i see. You were talking about the USAF`s budgetary issues. They have a huge industry that can recover and pick up very fast if they want. A large part of the monies have gone to the operation in Iraq. But it does not mean that the US is unable to ramp up the production of these planes. I am absolutely certain that they do not want to lose thier aerial dominance. There`s always a lot of talk going on. At the end of the day, the US would get thier defence priorities right. -
The fact is, other countries wld rather go for 2nd hand F-16 rather than F-15. Just now you mention about Saudi F-15, they just opted to reengine their F-15 into GE ones.
...............................................................................................................
http://www.defense-aerospace.com/cgi-bin/client/modele.pl?prod=86878&session=dae.30079619.1192016563.@9EO5n8AAAEAAGFOZ50AAAAI&modele=jdc_1
Royal Saudi Air Force Selects General Electric Company to Re-engine F-15S Aircraft
(Source: GE Aviation; dated Oct. 3, web-posted Oct. 9, 2007)
EVENDALE, Ohio --- The Royal Saudi Air Force has selected General Electric Company's F110 fighter engine to begin to re-engine its twin-engine Boeing F-15S aircraft.
The agreement calls for the purchase of 65 of GE's F110-GE-129C engines and a logistic support package, with deliveries to begin in 2008, at a total value of more than $300 million.
In selecting the GE engine, the Royal Saudi Air Force cited the F110's high performance, safety and reliability, and cost effective operation. The Royal Saudi Air Force decision marks the first time an F-15 operator has switched engine models.
For more than 20 years, GE's F110 family has been the best-selling engine on single-engine F-16C/Ds worldwide, including in the Middle East. Recently, the F110 engine has made important progress in powering the twin-engine F-15. The F110 was first selected for 40 F-15K aircraft in 2002 by the Republic of Korea Air Force, followed by Singapore's selection last year for its new F-15SG fleet.
The F110 has considerable experience on the F-15. In 1999, the U.S. Air Force completed a highly successful field service evaluation of the F110-GE-129 powering the F-15, during which time the engine surpassed 1,900 engine flight-hours. First flight of the Korean F-15K occurred in early 2005.
"This is an important day in the history of the F110 engine program," said Russ Sparks, president of Military Engine Systems at GE Aviation. "For decades, GE has supported Royal Saudi Air Force aircraft, but this is an opportunity to power and support its front-line fighters."
The F110-GE-129 engine model to power the Royal Saudi aircraft incorporates GE's Service Life Extension (SLEP) hardware, which includes the core of a successful CFM56 commercial engine, 3D aero technology and upgrades to the combustor and high-pressure turbine. The enhancements can help provide up to a 25 percent improvement in cost-per-flying hour, a significant on-wing increase and elimination of special inspections.
GE Aviation, an operating unit of General Electric Company, is a world-leading provider of commercial and military jet engines and components as well as integrated digital, electric power, and mechanical systems for aircraft. GE Aviation also has a global service network to support these offerings.
..................................................................................................................
i say it again. We are the LAST Eagle operator. -
Lots of countries are watching RSAF selection of our next gen fighter. So the 'lot of countries' that is watching the selection will have sometime to make their decision on replacements. furthermore these countries have much bigger air space as compared to us. So opt the 15s will be much more to their advantages.
But why do we need such a long leg strike bomber ?? -
Originally posted by justcooler:But why do we need such a long leg strike bomber ??
So that our fly boys can take off from somewhere "far" to hit somewhere "near".
Same reason why your GST going to a bunch of KC-135.
Get it?
-
-
The fact is, other countries wld rather go for 2nd hand F-16 rather than F-15. Just now you mention about Saudi F-15, they just opted to reengine their F-15 into GE ones.
That`s good. That is one more reason as per why parts will be plentiful which is what i am talking about anyway.
Tell me. How many countries have bought second-hand F16s and they are planning to do so? Im just curious to know.
Urm. No. Once the Koreas buy the next batch. They would become the last buyer. We`ll become the previous last buyer. If iraq buys it subsequently, then they will be the last buyer. But then again, we might buy another batch so we`ll become the last buyer agsin. But I guess the Japanese might opt for new batch, then they`ll be the last buyer. And seeing as how the Iraqis are having the Fteens to counter iran, the other gulf states might join in too (ahem with that added special nudge from uncle sam )and buy the Fteens so they will be last. So, how about putting aside the crystal ball because you look funny.lol
My point is that there are many many F-teens now and in the future. So parts will be plentiful and so the price would not be that expensive. Conversely, a brand new F16 with all the bells and whistles can be very exhorbitant and can cost just as much. So you get more bang for buck with the Fteens; relatively speaking. It confers a distinctive strategic advantage with its range, weapons carriage, larger sensors, etc. -
Chile just brought MLU F-16 from Belguim though they also brough the Blk 50 F-16C/D...soon to be Morroco....Pakistan get the stall batches of F-16A/B plus C/D procurement.....India is dangling between MiG-35, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, Super Hornet and F-16.Originally posted by Arthas79:That`s good. That is one more reason as per why parts will be plentiful which is what i am talking about anyway.
Tell me. How many countries have bought second-hand F16s and they are planning to do so? Im just curious to know.
Urm. No. Once the Koreas buy the next batch. They would become the last buyer. We`ll become the previous last buyer. If iraq buys it subsequently, then they will be the last buyer. But then again, we might buy another batch so we`ll become the last buyer agsin. But I guess the Japanese might opt for new batch, then they`ll be the last buyer. And seeing as how the Iraqis are having the Fteens to counter iran, the other gulf states might join in too (ahem with that added special nudge from uncle sam )and buy the Fteens so they will be last. So, how about putting aside the crystal ball because you look funny.lol
My point is that there are many many F-teens now and in the future. So parts will be plentiful and so the price would not be that expensive. Conversely, a brand new F16 with all the bells and whistles can be very exhorbitant and can cost just as much. So you get more bang for buck with the Fteens; relatively speaking. It confers a distinctive strategic advantage with its range, weapons carriage, larger sensors, etc.
You miss my point: i said LAST OPERATOR, not last BUYER. Japanese opted for F-15Es? you got to be joking....they is a high tendecy of them getting the EUROFIGHTER TYPHOONS if they can't get the RAPTORS, plus is totally different roles. High not likely Iraqis will get any Uncle Sam a/c. C'mon , be practical now, do you think is possible? Let me tell you this, our procurement of F-15SG so that we can have Strategic Strike capability: F-15E have longer ranger than F-15C/D, F-16 n F-22. The weapons procurement is indeed very nice.
Most ppl thought that Russians a/c got trouble with spare parts, but i am surprise that recent Poland brought the F-16 Advanced blk 50 ver got problem with spares.....
Do you know why ISDF( Formally IDF) opted F-16I instead of gettingmore F-15I Raam? Since UAE has already funded the CFT tech n AESA trechnology into the falcon, thus bringing the cost down for them to procure.
i got tons of links to show if i want? do you want to see it? Whatever aircraft we see in Davis-Monathon AB in Arizona, have to see Uncle Sam Congress whether they approve the sales of "sensitive" equipment to other countries, is not you suka suka say i want that means they give it to you...... -
Chile just brought MLU F-16 from Belguim though they also brough the Blk 50 F-16C/D...soon to be Morroco....Pakistan get the stall batches of F-16A/B plus C/D procurement.....India is dangling between MiG-35, Typhoon, Rafale, Gripen, Super Hornet and F-16.
Pakistan is about to get brand new F16s. Even if it does get the older F-16s, why is that second hand? It was emabargoed on them.
This does not prove that everyone else is buying second hand F16s. In fact, it just goes to show they are buying brand new ones. lol.You miss my point: i said LAST OPERATOR, not last BUYER. Japanese opted for F-15Es? you got to be joking....they is a high tendecy of them getting the EUROFIGHTER TYPHOONS if they can't get the RAPTORS, plus is totally different roles. High not likely Iraqis will get any Uncle Sam a/c. C'mon , be practical now, do you think is possible? Let me tell you this, our procurement of F-15SG so that we can have Strategic Strike capability: F-15E have longer ranger than F-15C/D, F-16 n F-22. The weapons procurement is indeed very nice.
Lol. dont be silly. You do not have exclusive knowledge for that. And yes, that is being practical. And no, there is every possibilty of Japan buying a multi-role F15 plane. Just like Korea. Well, it is the same case with the rest as well.
I know why we bought the F15s. I had just said something to that effect up there. Same with some of the other forumners.
Lol. What are you talking about dude ?
i got tons of links to show if i want? do you want to see it? Whatever aircraft we see in Davis-Monathon AB in Arizona, have to see Uncle Sam Congress whether they approve the sales of "sensitive" equipment to other countries, is not you suka suka say i want that means they give it to you......
-
Originally posted by Arthas79:
not really brand new
[quote]Pakistan is about to get brand new F16s. Even if it does get the older F-16s, why is that second hand? It was emabargoed on them.
This does not prove that everyone else is buying second hand F16s. In fact, it just goes to show they are buying brand new ones. lol.
REFURBISHLol. dont be silly. You do not have exclusive knowledge for that. And yes, that is being practical. And no, there is every possibilty of Japan buying a multi-role F15 plane. Just like Korea. Well, it is the same case with the rest as well.
Do you know Japan miltary concript or not? they have limited offensive capability. If they brought F-15E, it will spark a row between China/Korea.
I know why we bought the F15s. I had just said something to that effect up there. Same with some of the other forumners.Lol. What are you talking about dude ? [img]http://www.blueblood.net/boards/images/smilies2/rolling_eyes.gif[/img
What i am saying that what ever a/c in storage in USA, in Davis Monathan AB, have still need FMS approval from US Congress, be it leased, refurbish to other countries.
]
]quote] -
^
Err....ok..whatever rocks your boat lol -
do your research before you start this debate......Originally posted by Arthas79:^ Err....ok..whatever rocks your boat lol -
What is the F-2 then? It is a strike aircraft. I seriously doubt the Japanese are going to care about what the rest of them think given the new strategic picture.
Actually, you have not exactly proven anything. The F15s remain a viable option for many countries; including Japan. The F15s remain in the service of many nations. So parts are plentiful. We may not even be the last operator. Especially, if these other nations choose to maintain thier planes for much longer or when there are future purchases. Meanwhile, countries are not buying second hand F16s in droves. To the contrary, they are buying brand new F16s. In short, i do not know what you are talking about.
You are simply speculating; notwithstanding your claims for research et al. But I guess we can agree on one thing. We had sound reasons for buying the F15s. That is because we have an obvious need.; obviously. But then again, the other posters have already mentioned that long before you decided to pitch in. -
F-2 is an oversized, overprice Blk 40 F-16 with main purpose of Anti-shipping role with limited bombing capabilities.....aka dumb bombs...though they have AESA radars.Originally posted by Arthas79:What is the F-2 then? It is a strike aircraft. I seriously doubt the Japanese are going to care about what the rest of them think given the new strategic picture.
Actually, you have not exactly proven anything. The F15s remain a viable option for many countries; including Japan. The F15s remain in the service of many nations. So parts are plentiful. We may not even be the last operator. Especially, if these other nations choose to maintain thier planes for much longer or when there are future purchases. Meanwhile, countries are not buying the F16s in droves. To the contrary, they are buying brand new F16s. In short, i do not know what you are talking about.
You are simply speculating; notwithstanding your claims for research et al. But I guess we can agree on one thing. We had sound reasons for buying the F15s. That is because we have an obvious need.; obviously. But then again, the other posters have already mentioned that long before you decided to pitch in.
F-15 in service in MANY NATIONS? lets see....we got USA, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Japan, South Korea and soon us Singapore....you call that MANY? Is a pinch compared to the sales of MiG-21, MiG-29s or even F-16s.
you got your facts wrong again....... -
F-2 is an oversized, overprice Blk 40 F-16 with main purpose of Anti-shipping role with limited bombing capabilities.....aka dumb bombs...though they have AESA radars.
The F-2 is still a strike aircraft. Wow..they have AESA too. Nice.
F-15 in service in MANY NATIONS? lets see....we got USA, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Japan, South Korea and soon us Singapore....you call that MANY? Is a pinch compared to the sales of MiG-21, MiG-29s or even F-16s.
you got your facts wrong again.......
Why are`nt those nations a lot where aircrafts of the F-15 category is concerned? And why are you comparing the F-15s to the F-16s. mig-21, etc ? They are in a different category.
Still, you have not proven your arguments above apart from speculating. -
i am not speculating, i am stating the facts. you are the ones that keep diverting it. Do i have to spoonfeed you with every info i found? Let the audience decide.Originally posted by Arthas79:The F-2 is still a strike aircraft. Wow..they have AESA too. Nice.
Why are`nt those nations a lot where aircrafts of the F-15 category is concerned? And why are you comparing the F-15s to the F-16s. mig-21, etc ? They are in a different category.
Still, you have not proven your arguments above apart from speculating.
This argument here is more like buying toys than anywhere else -
You miss my point: i said LAST OPERATOR, not last BUYER. Japanese opted for F-15Es? you got to be joking....they is a high tendecy of them getting the EUROFIGHTER TYPHOONS if they can't get the RAPTORS, plus is totally different roles. High not likely Iraqis will get any Uncle Sam a/c. C'mon , be practical now, do you think is possible?
The fact is, other countries wld rather go for 2nd hand F-16 rather than F-15.
Lol. How are these facts? Since that is our bone of contention. You were speculating. -
I suppose in your own world you decide who will be last buyer or operator. And you decide why many countries decide to buy second hand f16s rather than new ones.
-
http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/articleinvesting.aspx?type=allBreakingNews&storyID=2007-10-17T101801Z_01_T350585_RTRIDST_0_JAPAN-DEFENCE-FIGHTERS.XMLOriginally posted by Arthas79:Lol. How are these facts? Since that is our bone of contention. You were speculating.
Japan may buy Eurofighter, defence minister says
Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:18 AM BST
TOKYO, Oct 17 (Reuters) - Japan is considering buying Eurofighter Typhoons to replace part of its ageing air force fleet, Defence Minister Shigeru Ishiba said in an interview on Wednesday.
Tokyo had shown interest in buying the Lockheed-Martin (LMT.N: Quote, Profile , Research) F-22 Raptor, which boasts stealth capabilities far superior to those of any other aircraft available, but the U.S. government is reluctant to allow the technology to be exported, even to a close ally such as Japan.
"The F-22 is an exceptional aircraft," Ishiba said. "But we at the Defence Ministry have not decided that it is absolutely necessary for Japan."
Ishiba said the strongest alternative among planes manufactured by other countries was the Eurofighter.
"The French Rafale is difficult to use. We certainly wouldn't choose a Russian fighter plane. So I think it would be the Eurofighter Typhoon," he said.
The Eurofighter is built by a consortium including BAE Systems (BAES.L: Quote, Profile , Research), Airbus parent firm EADS (EAD.PA: Quote, Profile , Research) and Alenia Aeronautica, a unit of Italy's Finmeccanica (SIFI.MI: Quote, Profile , Research).
Ishiba denied that U.S. reluctance to export the F-22 to Japan was linked to a leak of classified information relating to the joint U.S.-Japanese ballistic missile defence system. But he said Tokyo nevertheless needed to improve its handling of classified data.
A scandal erupted this year when Japanese naval officers were reported to have leaked classified information about the Aegis radar system used on U.S. and Japanese missile-defence capable ships.
"It is a fact that Aegis information was leaked. So I feel strongly that Japan's information management system is not good enough," Ishiba said, adding that tougher penalties and more reliable ways of detecting leaks were needed.
© Reuters 2007. All Rights Reserved. | Learn more about Reuters