If SAR-21 included in USArmy SandTest Shoot-Off...
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For those that are wondering what in the world we are talking about:
Direct Gas Impingement
Gas Piston
The write up is here http://www.lwrifles.com/tech.php -
Apparently we did things differently from the "book".Originally posted by Ponders:The "book" says you must use tools. -
on the battlefield, "bookworms" who insist on whats written in the books will die...Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Apparently we did things differently from the "book". -
[quote]Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:
[b]I've used the SAR-21 under extreme conditions, and by all measures it tests out fine as a reliable piece of kit... which is not surprising given it works on the piston principle.
why don't you share with us here under what extreme conditions? -
Are you a grunt of the infantry sort?Originally posted by Hellraiza:why don't you share with us here under what extreme conditions?
In any case I've used the SAR-21 for a few days outfield, fired hundreds of rounds (blanks no less) from it. Had it go through rain, mud, dust, sand and dirt and it still managed to function without cleaning. Granted the weapon was caked with carbon and rust in some parts, and even with sand (yes the thing still rusts) but it will function and work... certainly more so then the M-16.
Though cleaning the weapon afterwards was not really fun, and it's bad pratice not to clean your weapon as and when you have the time... but the SAR-21 is less reliant on this routine then the M-16, which is what you'd expect from a piston system.
Basically the grunt would probably quit before the weapon in many cases. -
Hellraiza is much more than just a grunt. Let's just put it that way.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Are you a grunt of the infantry sort?
In any case I've used the SAR-21 for a few days outfield, fired hundreds of rounds (blanks no less) from it. Had it go through rain, mud, dust, sand and dirt and it still managed to function without cleaning. Granted the weapon was caked with carbon and rust in some parts, and even with sand (yes the thing still rusts) but it will function and work... certainly more so then the M-16.
Though cleaning the weapon afterwards was not really fun, and it's bad pratice not to clean your weapon as and when you have the time... but the SAR-21 is less reliant on this routine then the M-16, which is what you'd expect from a piston system.
Basically the grunt would probably quit before the weapon in many cases.
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Strange then, but I notice some units seem to have scathing reviews of the SAR... such as the Cdos. Apparently some of them just hate the thing.
Strangely enough, the mono intake people in the SIR and Guards formation that I spoke with who trained first with the SAR and then had TH with the M-16 prefered the SAR.
But in the end if you look at it objectively, the SAR does have a neat bag of tricks that the M-16 does not have, such as length and durability... and most importantly it is far more reliable. -
never used the SAR-21 so far in my 14mths in NS.My unit still using M-16 hah or shotguns or pistols. I dunt mind trying though. So far the M016 was pretty gd to me.
However the only real complain i've heard frm the Sar-21 is the weight of it when doing marches. -
amen to that. lugging 4kg worth of rifle around your neck isnt really fun ..Originally posted by |-|05|:never used the SAR-21 so far in my 14mths in NS.My unit still using M-16 hah or shotguns or pistols. I dunt mind trying though. So far the M016 was pretty gd to me.
However the only real complain i've heard frm the Sar-21 is the weight of it when doing marches. -
x2.. also doing SOC with the SAR is really a b1tch....Originally posted by Lance_han:amen to that. lugging 4kg worth of rifle around your neck isnt really fun .. -
You are right of course.Originally posted by M551Sheridian:chino65 if im not wrong the ak47 was made way back b4 vietnam even started rite???? is the 47 at the back means 1947 ??? or something else
And one cannot tell the sucess story of the AK-47 without also mentioning the SKS.
SKS:
* tested in 1945
* adopted in 1949
AK-47:
* tested in 1947
* adopted in 1949
The Assault Rifle concept adopted by the Germans in 1945 and copied by Kalashnikov almost immediately in 1947.
As a comparison, the US was still using the M1 Garand until 1957. However, in 1957 they adopted a 7.62mm full-power cartridge not that much different from its WW2 predecessors. And the rifle the Americans adopted to replace is the M14 - basically a modernised M-1 Garand. -
The M16 direct gas system is quite a rare oddity in the small arms world isn't it? What other weapon uses this system?Originally posted by touchstone_2000:For those that are wondering what in the world we are talking about:
Direct Gas Impingement
Gas Piston
The write up is here http://www.lwrifles.com/tech.php
Can anyone remember why Eugene Stoner picked this system for his M16? Was it for the accuracy or something? -
Ya, as far as i know M16 is the only DI gas system in small arms. He did it apperently because it reduces recoil by directing the recoil force of the bolt directly into the shoulder (so no rotation aka muzzle climb.). You can find Youtube vids about this, try "Top 10, Guns. M14 & M16", Discovery channel show.Originally posted by chino65:The M16 direct gas system is quite a rare oddity in the small arms world isn't it? What other weapon uses this system?
Can anyone remember why Eugene Stoner picked this system for his M16? Was it for the accuracy or something?
Why is barett's M468 not in? The whole US specs ops ASK for the round to be chambered right? I'm with LazerLord with the H&K 416/417 thing.(H&K rox on!) They didnt mention SCAR-H/L right? Hmmm..... Oh ya, did any one heard? Colt is developing a piston-stroke version of M16 to "address" the stoppage....................
Slick....
Aiya, the weight is everybody's complain... Dialect time "Singaporean ai pi, ai qi, ai guen lore."
Transcript: Singaporean's want it cheap, light and close(dist wise). Nvr carry garand happy liao lor....
(I wish i have one....)
Btw Sig550 also can adjust the gas regulator on-the-fly with no tools wat. Using tools is for regulation(equipment lifespan), doubt they'll practice it in actual wartime.
XM8 XM8 XM8!!!
Why happened to the Augs our buds up north had??
Edit: I think Mk16 rifles is SCAR-L...