Indonesia, Thailand seek new fighters
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DATE:20/07/07
SOURCE:Flight International
Indonesia, Thailand seek new fighters
By Siva Govindasamy
Indonesia and Thailand are making moves towards acquiring new fighter jets, although industry sources say that any procurement is unlikely to begin until the start of the next decade.
Thailand is the likelier of the two South-East Asian countries to make the first move, with its air force chief saying the service is seeking $1 billion over the next five years to buy new helicopters and aircraft. The priority, Air Chief Marshal Chalit Pukphasuk says, is to replace the kingdom's two fleets of Northrop F-5Es that have been in service since the 1970s and are due to be decommissioned around 2011.
While a competition is not officially under way, aircraft manufacturers have held informal talks with Bangkok for the initial sale of up to 12 fighters. However, Chalit rules out Russia's MiG-29, which is in service with neighbours such as Malaysia, saying: "You wouldn't want a fighter jet that your neighbours have more experience on. You would want one that is a little bit more advanced than what your neighbours have."
Saab, producer of the Gripen, is believed to be one of the frontrunners because of the growing defence ties between Sweden and Thailand. The company is seeking its first Gripen sale in Asia, and industry sources say that it is offering Thailand a competitive package that includes cheap loans. Others are not resting on their laurels. Boeing's F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and Lockheed Martin's F-16 are also likely to be considered and both companies will look to capitalise on long-standing defence ties between the USA and Thailand. The Sukhoi Su-30 and Dassault Rafale could also take part in a tender.
Indonesia is also looking to refresh its air force, and the service's chief of staff says the country wants to replace the Rockwell OV-10 Bronco, BAE Systems Hawk 53, F-5 and possibly upgrade its F-16A/Bs. Among the aircraft being considered are the Aero Vodochody L-159, Chengdu K-8 and Korea Aerospace Industries KO-1B turboprop trainer.
"A team has already conducted a study and provided some input which we will submit after 2009," says Marshal Herman Prayitno. "The air force still has to consider the capability of the new aircraft. We hope they could perform various missions, especially to replace the ground attack role of the OV-10, the ambush function of the F-5, as well as the trainer function."
The problem, however, is financing. While the Indonesian economy has been growing over the past few years, poverty alleviation remains a government priority. "It might be difficult for the government to justify spending a billion dollars on new aircraft when sections of society are still struggling," says an observer.
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/07/20/215588/indonesia-thailand-seek-new-fighters.html -
aircraft manufacturers have held informal talks with Bangkok for the initial sale of up to 12 fighters. However, Chalit rules out Russia's MiG-29, which is in service with neighbours such as Malaysia, saying: "You wouldn't want a fighter jet that your neighbours have more experience on. You would want one that is a little bit more advanced than what your neighbours have."
Lol. Surely, he meant the dubious track record the Malaysians have had with the Migs. Then again, it probably applies to other platforms as well.
Edit: Maybe not so much the Thais. You will defintely see the RSAF procuring more planes if neighbouring countries puchase more. Remember the good ole days when we were flying 200 jets. That was because both the Malaysians ans Indons were flying more jets then. -
The Thai Generals are a bunch of self-serving pricks. First they totally take over some government linked companies, next they drive the economy into the abyss, now they are trying to buy new toys for themselves.
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toys.!!! 
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Of course, Military defense spending has increased by (if i remember correctly) 23% TWENTY THREE that's almost a quarter more for this years budget after the coup. Everyone in their country lan lan suck thumb cannot complain at all. I feel sad for the thais.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:The Thai Generals are a bunch of self-serving pricks. First they totally take over some government linked companies, next they drive the economy into the abyss, now they are trying to buy new toys for themselves.
I hope they dont buy gripen. I am still hoping WE buy those for F-5 replacement rather than the more expensive F-16 C/Ds Blk52+. -
I wonder who is the idiot who suggested buying an aircraft carrier.Originally posted by CM06:Of course, Military defense spending has increased by (if i remember correctly) 23% TWENTY THREE that's almost a quarter more for this years budget after the coup. Everyone in their country lan lan suck thumb cannot complain at all. I feel sad for the thais.
I hope they dont buy gripen. I am still hoping WE buy those for F-5 replacement rather than the more expensive F-16 C/Ds Blk52+.
Now it is has the damn dubious honour of having to sit at the pier side and rust.
These damn generals are just a bunch of .... useless two-face jerks. And the idiotic left-wing intelligentsia thought Thaksin was bad. -
can we take back our old F-16s given to the Royal Thai Air Force?
I prefer to throw them away than to give it to the Thai generals.
Our SAF also should break all relations with the Thai army.......why does Singapore govt lan lan do nothing when they made it clear we are not welcomed.
Singapore got no self respect.......Singapore already kena molested and yet keep opening her legs in front of the Thai military robbers. Asking to be farked further....pui..... -
Considering how we love to buy American, I think the Gripen is unlikely to enter service with RSAF. Have a feeling it will simply be F-15SG and F-16C/D one day.Originally posted by CM06:Of course, Military defense spending has increased by (if i remember correctly) 23% TWENTY THREE that's almost a quarter more for this years budget after the coup. Everyone in their country lan lan suck thumb cannot complain at all. I feel sad for the thais.
I hope they dont buy gripen. I am still hoping WE buy those for F-5 replacement rather than the more expensive F-16 C/Ds Blk52+.
A rojak air force is not wise but IMO it isn't wise to put all our eggs in one basket too. Look what happened when the US suspended military ties with Indonesia. How can we be sure we will be chummy with the US forever? Would personally feel more at ease with just one non US fighter jet. -
I wonder the people who supported the coup think about their situation now!!Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:The Thai Generals are a bunch of self-serving pricks. First they totally take over some government linked companies, next they drive the economy into the abyss, now they are trying to buy new toys for themselves. -
It's funny how the Thais talk about their nieghbour - the Malaysians - like a potential enemy than friend, when referring to the MiG-29.
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Reality no. 1: The Thai Military has always been very nationalistic. They actually allied with the Japs to invade Burma and nearby. It should be no wonder to anyone that the neighbouring countries do not like Thailand too much, even historically.Originally posted by chino65:It's funny how the Thais talk about their nieghbour - the Malaysians - like a potential enemy than friend, when referring to the MiG-29. -
To quote yr first pointOriginally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Reality no. 1: The Thai Military has always been very nationalistic. They actually allied with the Japs to invade Burma and nearby. It should be no wonder to anyone that the neighbouring countries do not like Thailand too much, even historically.
Can you tell me which Armed Forces in the world isn't nationalistic??Armies are there for the sole purpose of either making war or defending the countries,if there's no nationalism imbue in the Army,where are they going to find the purpose and morale to fight a war against other countries.
Secondly, I think that we shdn't discount the fact that there are rivalries with ptjer countries too. The French dun like the British..the Canadian dun particulary take a liking to the Americans and Malaysia have the occassional tift with Singapore from time to time...Thus....to simple discount tis dislike due to Thailand's military is simply over generalising. -
malay states have been vassals to the colonist siamese for centuries. satun was a state in the kedah kingdom and all four southern thai provinces were part of a malay kingdom. none really bowed to the siamese then. and definitely not now.
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Thai military - king of the road......
Robber on the road.....
Dreamers - trying to teach Muslim women to fight against Muslim rebels......using pump gun.........brainless Thai army -
You are right but now they are the ones in power and thus they espouse their nationalism. More so when the generals have a history of plundering the state. This isn't the first time they took power and now they are back. However, these days, most Western militaries observe their place and keep their mouths shut; they simply serve the state and don't indulge in too much politics. In countries where this is not observed however, militaries tend to be assertive and disrespectful of their own governments and tend to be involved in politics. Examples would be Indonesia, Turkey and perhaps Russia.Originally posted by mozzi190:To quote yr first point
Can you tell me which Armed Forces in the world isn't nationalistic??Armies are there for the sole purpose of either making war or defending the countries,if there's no nationalism imbue in the Army,where are they going to find the purpose and morale to fight a war against other countries.
Secondly, I think that we shdn't discount the fact that there are rivalries with ptjer countries too. The French dun like the British..the Canadian dun particulary take a liking to the Americans and Malaysia have the occassional tift with Singapore from time to time...Thus....to simple discount tis dislike due to Thailand's military is simply over generalising.
Inter country rivalry is something of a cultural thing I think, though in general most countries have some degree of rivalry one way or another. Americans probably come across brusque by their European etc. But that aside, the Thais have always viewed themselves historically as masters of region. Besides, in most recent memory, it was the Thai Military that led the charge in invading neighbouring Burma etc. with Japanese blessings. It is one thing to call it a rivalry, it is another to actually invade someone. -
Actually, we always think MAF is doing this or that becos of SAF. As we do publicly quarel with them all the time.Originally posted by mozzi190:Malaysia have the occassional tift with Singapore from time to time...
But in the end, it is just family squabble. Not that family squabbles cannot turn ugly...
MAF's biggest security concerns are Thailand in the North and Indonesia in E Malaysia and across the sea from Aceh, where all kinds of things get smuggled over including Illegals Immigrants by the thousands and possible TNI operatives or spies.
MY have real territorial disputes with Thailand and INDO and at stake are some real LARGE chunks of real estate - like an entire state. The Filipinos also claim Sabah but they are militarily in no position to say anything.
What dispute MY got with us is just some stupid lighthouse which they dun really need but like to use it to make us feel uncomfortable from time to time.
Between us and MY, it's just wayang wayang cos they dun dare wayang with TNI or the Thais.
If they buy PT-91, it's not just becos SAF got Tempest etc etc. It's more becos Thailand's got some serious armour in their inventory and MAF had only little Scorpions.
Though intel suggests they had some MBTs for a long time which they kept secret. -
Originally posted by chino65:
May i know what kind of dispute with the Thais?
MAF's biggest security concerns are Thailand in the North and Indonesia in E Malaysia and across the sea from Aceh, where all kinds of things get smuggled over including Illegals Immigrants by the thousands and possible TNI operatives or spies.
MY have real territorial disputes with Thailand and INDO and at stake are some real LARGE chunks of real estate - like an entire state. The Filipinos also claim Sabah but they are militarily in no position to say anything.What dispute MY got with us is just some stupid lighthouse which they dun really need but like to use it to make us feel uncomfortable from time to time.
that "stupid" lighthouse represent the border mind uBetween us and MY, it's just wayang wayang cos they dun dare wayang with TNI or the Thais.
and what's the case with indon confrontation in the 60's?wayang?and ambalat?If they buy PT-91, it's not just becos SAF got Tempest etc etc. It's more becos Thailand's got some serious armour in their inventory and MAF had only little Scorpions.
what armour?they don't have credible force with problematic chinese tank & stingray? think assymetric dude..ATGW
Though intel suggests they had some MBTs for a long time which they kept secret. -
so is singapore going to buy it for them ?
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Erm who are you? You create account just to shoot him? Intro yourself lar.Originally posted by mmmbop:what armour?they don't have credible force with problematic chinese tank & stingray? think assymetric dude..ATGW -
You can go check up the history of the border demarcation between Thailand and Malaysia and enlighten yourself. You may even understand the root cause of the raging insurgency in Thailand's deep south.Originally posted by mmmbop:May i know what kind of dispute with the Thais?
If you research the history of the border issue between Thailand and Malaysia, you'll know why our lighthouse pales in comparison.Originally posted by mmmbop:that "stupid" lighthouse represent the border mind u
Philippines claim the ENTIRE state of Sabah and Marcos trained infiltrators to destabilize Sabah as part of his invasion plan. Of course, it was not launched. Search the internet for the stories. History is fun.
You are being very challenging in your attitude but you don't bother to check the facts. I was saying that Indonesia is the aggressive one and Malaysia avoid wayang with the Indonesians unless confronted. And even then, they try not to be loud about it.Originally posted by mmmbop:and what's the case with indon confrontation in the 60's?wayang?and ambalat?
Check your history. Indonesia launched the Konfrontasi attacks, not the other way round. Malaysia was fending off attacks by the aggressive Indonesians.
In Ambalat, it was Indonesia accusing the Malaysians of violating "their territory". The ship collision is also Indonesia's aggression as suggested by this quote:
"Indonesian Navy Chief Admiral Salamet Soebijanto commented that the incident occurred when the Indonesian vessel “tried to drive the Malaysian vessel out of our maritime territory”, indicating a robust, confrontational approach from the TNI."
http://www.asiaquarterly.com/content/view/160/
All throughout the dispute, Malaysia tried to play things down, Indonesia was the aggressive one calling for war.
Hey...Originally posted by mmmbop:what armour?they don't have credible force with problematic chinese tank & stingray? think assymetric dude..ATGW
Do the Thais NOT have any ATGW? They have ATGW AND more tanks than MAF.
C'mon "dude"... Use your common sense before you try something hard like "think assymetric".
Sorry hor... other people's armour don't live up to your standard.
But...
Are the Stingrays immobile? Can their guns NOT FIRE? Are the 'problematic" Chinese tanks nothing unable to shoot back? How problematic are the Chinese tanks? Are the CHinese tanks the ONLY other tanks the Thais have? Do you know their whole inventory? Do you know how many tanks with guns above 100mm the Thais have? Did the Thais forget to update you?
Are the Thais NOT PERMITTED to buy new tanks?
Next time, don't have to register a new handle just to answer my post. -
You can go check up the history of the border demarcation between Thailand and Malaysia and enlighten yourself. You may even understand the root cause of the raging insurgency in Thailand's deep south.
The history is well known.but you see you said yourself that's history & Msia don't give a fuss and claiming it like what the Phillippines intend to for Sabah.border line within thick forest with 4X4 rock as the point obviously never been easy to manage.but did ever Msia & Thai take it so serious till they need to present their case at the Hague?NOpe.because they know the case is not that demanding. as for the southern problems, its their internal problems and got nothing to do with Msia.If you research the history of the border issue between Thailand and Malaysia, you'll know why our lighthouse pales in comparison.
Wo..this is not about comparison.vast or not the area it's still national issue. and if it's not that important why Sg bother arguing?because they know it will control the forward north border.that if you still said it's just some stupid lighthouse.and what Phillipine got anything to do with this?
Philippines claim the ENTIRE state of Sabah and Marcos trained infiltrators to destabilize Sabah as part of his invasion plan. Of course, it was not launched. Search the internet for the stories. History is fun.You are being very challenging in your attitude but you don't bother to check the facts. I was saying that Indonesia is the aggressive one and Malaysia avoid wayang with the Indonesians unless confronted. And even then, they try not to be loud about it.
frankly i don't understand your rojak english with wayang & all that.my understanding is that you're proposing that msia got no balls to stand against the duo.and since you say msia wayang only with Sg may i know what aggression had been made towards Sg?any air intrusion, boat gunshot?since there's nada, it's should been clear that Msia play diplomacy in hand for every conflict.that even with back-up plan like ambalat case, the laksamana class and F18 had been deployed there for any untoward incident.even the corvette seems to play no role in the incident, take note that the corvette located finely within the otomat missile to act.
Check your history. Indonesia launched the Konfrontasi attacks, not the other way round. Malaysia was fending off attacks by the aggressive Indonesians.
In Ambalat, it was Indonesia accusing the Malaysians of violating "their territory". The ship collision is also Indonesia's aggression as suggested by this quote:
"Indonesian Navy Chief Admiral Salamet Soebijanto commented that the incident occurred when the Indonesian vessel “tried to drive the Malaysian vessel out of our maritime territory”, indicating a robust, confrontational approach from the TNI."
http://www.asiaquarterly.com/content/view/160/
All throughout the dispute, Malaysia tried to play things down, Indonesia was the aggressive one calling for war.Hey...
The fact they have thousands in relative to msian is well-known.but the fact that most are obsolete and ageing is also well-known.if that's not the case why do you think the thais even bother to consider buying junkie tank from Swiss if all of their mighty tank still operational?why speed up a plan on gettin new (or 2ndhand "new") tank in reacting to Msia getting of only 48 tanks?and how many still operational?
Do the Thais NOT have any ATGW? They have ATGW AND more tanks than MAF.
C'mon "dude"... Use your common sense before you try something hard like "think assymetric".
Sorry hor... other people's armour don't live up to your standard.
But...
Are the Stingrays immobile? Can their guns NOT FIRE? Are the 'problematic"; Chinese tanks nothing unable to shoot back? How problematic are the Chinese tanks? Are the CHinese tanks the ONLY other tanks the Thais have? Do you know their whole inventory? Do you know how many tanks with guns above 100mm the Thais have? Did the Thais forget to update you?
the cracking stingray and the old m60 and the chinese tank, can they really stand against new tank?without ERA?and have you ever think why thai the only operator of Stingray?with this sad condition do you think Msia really need to activate it's ATGW hunter killer team?it's possible RPG will knock them dead.which malaysia have in big numbers.Are the Thais NOT PERMITTED to buy new tanks?
Huh? this is the future possible case. then might as well we say WHAT IF Msia buy additional tank?Next time, don't have to register a new handle just to answer my post.
Dont be arrogant.the forum does not belongs to you and i can reply to anyone i want to -
Lol , you can call people arrogant by reading his post?
Not bad -
Wow... this has went seriously off topic and become a d!ck size comparison debate.
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Originally posted by mmmbop:
[b]frankly i don't understand your rojak english with wayang & all that.my understanding is that you're proposing that msia got no balls to stand against the duo.and since you say msia wayang only with Sg may i know what aggression had been made towards Sg?any air intrusion, boat gunshot?since there's nada, it's should been clear that Msia play diplomacy in hand for every conflict.that even with back-up plan like ambalat case, the laksamana class and F18 had been deployed there for any untoward incident.even the corvette seems to play no role in the incident, take note that the corvette located finely within the otomat missile to act.
yes, and yours is the Queen's English.
.... get a life. -
the thais sure are rich