That was LTC Herbert Jones, CO 2 Para. The battle at Goose Green wasn't a mess because of Jones' death - the BBC had announced that the Paras had taken Goose Green when they were actually still preparing to attack, and this gave the Argentineans warning and the opportunity to dig in and make it a hard fight.Originally posted by wisefool83:During the Falkland Wars, the CO of the Para troops, Colonel H (if my memory serves me well) undertook similar actions and lead his men from the front. He was KIA and the unit nearly scrumbled into chaos because of a lack of leader. His 2IC took over and eventually the battle was won. Colonel H was awarded the Victoria Cross, but insiders agreed that if he was not KIA, he would be court martial as and I quote "a CO has no business in the front."
Yes "Establishing the Chain of Command" A much discuss SAF topics.Originally posted by Gedanken:That was LTC Herbert Jones, CO 2 Para. The battle at Goose Green wasn't a mess because of Jones' death - the BBC had announced that the Paras had taken Goose Green when they were actually still preparing to attack, and this gave the Argentineans warning and the opportunity to dig in and make it a hard fight.
Much as I hate to, I'd agree that a CO has no business being in front. OCs can lead from the front, but if a CO is too busy shooting to coordinate the battalion's actions, he's simply not doing his job.
i believe his 2nd command was down. the thing with military situation is that officer do get kill. So how does the next person assume responsibilities are equally essential.Originally posted by sir sickolot II:a mark of a good commander would not need him to chiong out front with his men in the heat of battle.. as said before, this would mean he's not doing his duty of coordinating and overseeing the assault
Rather, a good commander should have a team of well trained officers under his wings to guide the unit. The commander should also be an excellent tactician and have the intelligence to outwit the opponent.
I have to say a commader who has risen through the ranks and has fought long and hard with the men at platoon level/coy level would make a more well respected commander when he reaches command appointments.
As I have said in a previous response, a good example is the officer potrayed in the "Band Of Brothers" - the good one who fought for his men all the way from recruit training till the end of WW2. When he was promoted to Major, he delegated the fighting/leading part at the front to his ltas and sergeants.Originally posted by sir sickolot II:a mark of a good commander would not need him to chiong out front with his men in the heat of battle.. as said before, this would mean he's not doing his duty of coordinating and overseeing the assault
Rather, a good commander should have a team of well trained officers under his wings to guide the unit. The commander should also be an excellent tactician and have the intelligence to outwit the opponent.
I have to say a commader who has risen through the ranks and has fought long and hard with the men at platoon level/coy level would make a more well respected commander when he reaches command appointments.
The Sun is quite prone to exaggerating...Originally posted by CPL:>> A very well-written article abt the Brits army in Iraq.
>> I hope for God's sake our SAF boys will have the same type of "chiong"
>>spirit like these angmo kias when put into similar situations.
>>We shouldn't ever lose out to them.. these angmo kias are not even SAS
>>but normal Infantry unit material.
March 09, 2007
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007110295,00.html
COMMENT ON THIS STORY
ITÂ’S been 16 years since SAS hero and Sun Security Advisor Andy McNab was captured behind enemy lines in Iraq after a Scud-hunting mission went wrong.
For this special dispatch, he agreed to go back on to the war-torn nation’s mean streets to join up with his old regular infantry unit – the 2nd Battalion, the Rifles.
Here, he reveals the truth about what life is really like for Our Boys on the ever-more dangerous front line that is Basra today.
RIFLEMAN Steve Turner pokes his head round a gap in a wall, knowing full well it could be taken off by a 7.62mm round any second.
ItÂ’s B CompanyÂ’s third visit in as many weeks to check on Al Asher police station in the heart of BasraÂ’s rebel stronghold. On both previous occasions, a lone sniper put a bullet into one of their soldiers. It was odds on that he would strike again.
Sticking your head out to cover open and hostile ground to look out for your mates takes guts. And this lad from Liverpool is only 20 years old.
For Steve, though, it was nothing special.
With a shrug he told me: “It’s me job, Andy. If I didn’t do it, who else would be looking out for the lads?”
Sniper zone ... Andy joins patrol at police station where two soldiers were shot
I spent eight years with the Rifles before I passed SAS selection and went down to Hereford. Back then, they were known as the Royal Green Jackets, and had a strong reputation for being a tough and highly professional unit.
These days, though, all you ever hear in the UK is doom and gloom for troops in southern Iraq.
The TV news makes it sound like theyÂ’re about to top themselves with misery and are begging to come home.
Oh really? Well, thatÂ’s not the infantry I knew and loved. The more I thought about it, the more the suggestion of it p***ed me off.
Rather than hearing from the dozens of armchair generals, I wanted to come out and see it for myself. Living and taking fire with the guys for seven days, it became clear that the cr*p I thought the talking heads were spewing was just that.
I saw with my own eyes just how up for the fight these young men really are.
That’s no bad thing — because they’ve got one big fight on their hands all right.
'Take cover' ... our brave troops constantly look out for one another in Basra
Bush hats, smiles and giving out sweets to kids is history. Instead, itÂ’s helmets, bullets and only heavily armoured fighting vehicles on the streets now. The battalion is half-way through the bloodiest six-month tour of duty in the city since the 2003 liberation.
Sick of taking hit after hit from the Shia extremists, commanders have told troops to take the fight back to them.
For B Company alone, that has meant brassing up the fanatics with an incredible 15,000 rounds already — and they’ve still got three months to go.
As one warrant officer from Yorkshire put it to me: “First we tried softly softly, but that didn’t work. Then we did hearts and minds, and that didn’t work either.
“Now we’re giving them a f***ing slapping. They’ll listen to that all right.”
Going after the bad guys means strike operations — tracking the insurgents down, kicking their doors in and nicking them. To date, troops have launched a total of 55 different strike ops in the last five months. When I was in, that sort of highly skilled work was the preserve of the Special Forces, but the Rifles proved themselves more than capable of it.
In turn, when they are attacked, they turn the battle round and kill them.
Rifleman Paul Livingstone, 20, from Somerset, is a fantastic example.
He has only fired six rounds from his SA80 assault rifle so far, but has killed three enemy fighters.
That means an extraordinary coolness under fire, professionalism and guts.
Then there was selfless Kingsman Michael HargreavesÂ’s story.
Serving with a company from the 2nd Battalion, the Duke of LancasterÂ’s on attachment to the RiflesÂ’ battle group, the menÂ’s task is to hold a small outpost bang in the middle of the city.
Nobody can decide whether to nickname it the Alamo or RorkeÂ’s Drift, after 325 different attacks on it since they arrived on November 15 last year.
Kingsman Hargreaves was shot in the chest three weeks ago while manning the same sangar (sandbagged positions on the roof of a compound) where a friend, Kingsman Jamie Hancock, was shot dead two months earlier.
The bullet shattered on his body armour and peppered his neck and face with shrapnel.
Medivacked home for treatment, he could have spent the rest of his tour with his feet up in an English hospital bed.
But the 22-year-old father of two from Manchester begged nurses to send him back to Iraq early — and yesterday he was back up in that same sangar on guard duty, taking fire again.
On asking him why, he told me: “I just wanted to get back with the lads.”
Attacked ... Tom Newton Dunn and Andy hit the deck at Basra Palace
That made me feel very humble.
Success has a cost and, in turn, the enemy have fought back harder too.
If only the ever more accurate sniper fire — which killed two soldiers and wounded four more in the last week alone in Basra — was the only threat Rifleman Turner and his rifle company have to face.
On the way back to and from their tasks, they also have to contend with shaped-charge roadside bombs, RPG shoots and heavy automatic gunfire.
Then, when they’re back at their base — Saddam’s former palace in the city — they get on average three rocket and mortar bombardments a day. I learned that the hard way on my first morning there on the way to the cookhouse for breakfast.
Just after 7.30am, six mortar rounds piled into the complex and we hit the dirt.
“Bet that wasn’t in the travel brochure, eh Andy?” one gobby young rifleman said as I dusted myself down.
Attacks on the 7,000 troops in southern Iraq have rocketed to more than 100 a week from less than 40 a week before the start of the offensive.
Raid ... Andy sees our boys move in to arrest insurgents who killed Brit soldiers
A total of 15 servicemen and one woman have been killed and 74 troops have also been wounded in action, 27 seriously.
For the four months previous to that, the casualty figure was just 14. Yet still that hasn’t put them off. I even met three mates — Chris, Joe and Shane — on their second consecutive tour in Basra.
They liked the work and the money so much they had volunteered to transfer to 2 Rifles from a previous battalion so they could stay out here.
And all this from todayÂ’s iPod and PlayStation generation, derided by the old and bold as a bunch of soft sh*tes.
What the RiflesÂ’ CO, Lt Col Justin Maciejewski, told me summed it all up.
The colonel said: “You know, never before have I been less interested in what the media are saying back in Britain about this place.
“All the hand-wringing is all well and good, but it’s just simply wrong.
“We’re not victims, and we are actually making a difference here. We’ve taken the fight to them and we’re winning it.”
What I witnessed here was the most professional, motivated and well-armed generation of soldiers our country might have ever seen.
Yes, they are under constant 24-hour threat, theyÂ’re knackered, run ragged and some are even losing mates.
But the truth is most of these guys are also having the time of their lives.
They are closing in on the enemy, killing them, and they’re loving it — it’s what they’re paid to do and it’s why they joined the infantry.
IÂ’m not saying everybody has to like it. Just understand it.
Then the liberal hand wringers might just realise these soldiers donÂ’t want their sympathy after all.
Well that type of officer may be popular with the men, but he is doing them more harm then good. With him hanging around, first lower commanders have less chance of growth and lead !!! He may even undermine the authority of the lower commanders as the men will alway compare him and his orders with his lower commanders .... !!!Originally posted by SpecOps87:Before my encounter with wisefool, I would argue that this is the kind of CO I would die to fight under. The very kind of officer, all officers should be. A soldier's soldier.
But upon explaining to me, I realized that yes such officers hold the utmost respect from their men, being in the crap and getting shot at as well. But with rank, and appointment comes certain privileges, such as calling for immediate arty, air-strikes, naval support or hot extracts. And if he's out...who else can call for such support? Thus I would say that he makes a good PC, PS, Sec.Commander or Sergeant Major.