More Leo 2s
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Note this was during 1997 at a congressional hearing:
AFFORDABLE HEMP PROTECTION
We understand how to provide effective protection against EMP effects. The basic approach is to provide a shield that prevents damaging electrical pulses from entering a system. This requires protection at all electrical and mechanical penetrations. EMP hardening protocols have been published in standard handbooks and computer programs have been developed to facilitate system hardness designs.
EMP protection is also affordable. If accomplished during the design phase, the cost of EMP protection is a small fraction, one-to-five-percent, of overall system development costs. Done after the fact, when the unprotected system has already been fielded, it can be significantly more expensive.
To contribute to cost savings, we have an effort underway to develop integrated hardening methodologies that provide protection against multiple hazards. Our initial work focuses on integrated protection against the effects of both high altitude EMP and high powered microwaves produced with non-nuclear sources.
SIMULATION TO VALIDATE HEMP PROTECTION
We acquired much of our understanding of high altitude EMP effects and the protection needed from the development and effective use of nuclear weapon effects simulators. DoD currently operates a suite of simulators that provides the needed capabilities for large area, threat-level field illumination, direct current injection techniques, and low-level, continuous wave (CW) illumination to evaluate shield integrity and energy coupling efficiencies. These simulators are used in combination to validate a system's overall EMP protection.
STATE OF UNDERSTANDING
High Altitude EMP, System Generated EMP, and Radiation Effects are genuine, widespread hazards produced by even one nuclear weapon. We know how to protect against these EMP and radiation threats. Such protection is affordable, if provided for at an early stage in system design and development. For a tactical system, the cost can be as little as 1% of the total development investment; for strategic systems, a target of 5% is reasonable. Retrofitting protection after a system has been deployed can be considerably more expensive.
The pace of new developments in the fields of electronics and computers can be daunting. There is a new generation of microelectronics technology every eighteen months. Some of these new technologies are inherently more susceptible to nuclear threats. DoD has recognized and responded to these and other challenges. As outlined in the SecretaryÃs May 1997 report on Nuclear Weapon Systems Sustainment Programs, additional funds have been programmed to ensure that core DoD requirements for advanced radiation hardened microelectronics technology are met. More recently, a Radiation Hard Oversight Council was established to ensure these efforts have appropriate visibility and oversight.
EMP does not distinguish between military and civilian systems. Unhardended systems, such as commercial power grids, telecommunications networks, and computing systems, remain vulnerable to widespread outages and upsets due to HEMP. While DoD hardens assets it deems vital, no comparable civil program exists. Thus, the detonation of one or a few high-altitude nuclear weapons could result in devastating problems for the entire U.S. commercial infrastructure. Some detailed network analyses of critical civil systems would be useful to better understand the magnitude of the problem and define possible solution paths. -
are you done editing and adding to your post now ? ... or shall I wait for you and google ? ...
okiez ... so you agree that it's highly unpredictable then ? ... then why do you put what you say like some dogma ? ... you're like some petulant little kid playing masak and saying "my toy solider pwnz" yours, eh ? ...
I have nothing to root for the yanks, what I am pointing out is that like the Chinese, they have a measure of common sense and will move to prepare themselves against any technologies the Chinese will prepare, just as the Chinese are moving in kind in response. How the thing actually plays out will be highly unpredictable.
ah ... I like this one .... so General Tyranosaur ... where do you get yours ? ... I suppose in real life you're a SID/CIA/KGB special forces agent, with a first hand completely accurate info right from the horses mouth ? ... you're cute lah ...
So we must trust your words over what we can find in the media?
Where do you get your ideas and info on the inevitable rise of China anyway... oh wait... the media. Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing ... don't you love google ... ... like you're getting some secret first hand info ? ... 
go on ... google somemore ... your post's not long enough yet ... I'll wait ... -
Your standard modus operandi seems to be ad hominen attacks, strawmaning etc.Originally posted by Fatum:I detected a frantic burst of googling activity a little while ago ....
isn't google fantastic ? ...
in case you didn't realize yet ... what we're engaging in, is called "zhi shang tan ping" ... you're a military buff, and just that ... but if you think the stuff that you google out are better than the stuff that others read ... or that everything from your source is correct, then it's being a bit naive isn't it ? ... ... I don't profess to be an expert, cos I'm not a defense scientist, but if you'd like to be General google know-all, by all means go ahead ... but it is obvious that you have a thing for the US ...
fact of the matter is, the rise of china is a reality ... that a stealth fighter was shot down was a reality ... that now you can book tours in China to tour the spratleys is a reality ... that china has designs on the south china sea is a reality ... that china has spent time and effort to specifically take down carrier battle groups is known ...
you say that stealth cannot be detected, I say an F-117 has been shot down before ... you think attack choppers are invulnerable, I tell you to read about the 2003 war .... you say EMP can be defeated with protection ... I say wait and see .... you say China has more to loose in terms of infrastructure, I say she isn't stupid enough to fight over her cities, but on taiwan and the taiwan straits ...
oh well, this is getting silly .... we can go on till kingdom come, but of course, you'd always be the General in your own mind, eh ? ...
My conclusion? You have an inferiority complex, and obviously, you are too much full of bullshit pride to admit this. -
hmm......thought this TS was about SAF getting more LEO2s. And not some other topics being discussed right now........this gets boring....what i wanna read is about whether the SAF is getting more LEO2s and to what perceived numbers? That would be much much more interesting that all the arguments about EMP etc.
Totally off target to the TS, would'nt you agree guys?? Unable to illuminate the actual TS due to TS's stealthy features for the original topic to continue i guess....hehehe....
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Leos Live firing... cool stuff...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Quxslfa4Av0 -
okiez ... so you agree that it's highly unpredictable then ? ... then why do you put what you say like some dogma ? ... you're like some petulant little kid playing masak and saying "my toy solider pwnz" yours, eh ? ...
As I said, I get my from the media, the world wide web, and what I read in books, as well as decent common sense... which no different from where the layman gets his knowledge. There is nothing I posted here there is secret first hand info, only that a certain person is trying to paint it that way to discredit it. Who is the one acting like the rise of china and her secret undefendable EMP technologies are undeinable dogma?
I am putting up dogma, or common sense? Are you suggesting all the literature out there on EMP protection in military hardware since the Gulf War is nothing but one big conspiracy and propangada? Or does it simply suit your purpose to deny it by assuming whoever quotes it as a gogglemaster?
[quote]ah ... I like this one .... so General Tyranosaur ... where do you get yours ? ... I suppose in real life you're a SID/CIA/KGB special forces agent, with a first hand completely accurate info right from the horses mouth ? ... you're cute lah ... ... don't you love google ... ... like you're getting some secret first hand info ? ...
On the other hand, one might seriously question where you got your opinions on China's military capabilities like her EMP warfare-taking-out-American-Carriers from.
The question remains as this, fine you don't believe or accept what I say and think it's all gibberish and nonsense then please educate me.
Why do you think China's EMP is so effective?
What kind of non-nuclear EMP weapons will China employ, and how powerful are they?
Why will all the NCB and EMP experience and measures taken since the Cold War will be ineffective against it?
Why EMP protection impossible to achieve?
Why will the Americans do nothing about it and leave themselves useless and vulnerable to it?
Please, I await your enlightenment. -
Hmmm.... if China have EMP, wouldnt US have EMP too?
which means china would be sitting in the same boat albeit USN will be in a whole lot more pain if it hits em first -
The main problem with EMP warfare, as it has been pointed out before, is that EMP is a lot more effective on civillian infrastructure the military targets, because military targets, especially those designed from lessons during the Cold War were built with EMP protection in mind.Originally posted by Idle_King:Hmmm.... if China have EMP, wouldnt US have EMP too?
which means china would be sitting in the same boat albeit USN will be in a whole lot more pain if it hits em first
Hence logically speaking, if both sides were to engage in EMP warfare at China's doorstep, China would have far more to lose and get damaged then the USN, for the basic reason your average USN warship and military equipment is EMP protected while the Chinese civillian power grid and communications is not.
The thing about exotic technologies is that they tend to have very specific applications. Unlike what we see in the movies, EMP weapons have very real limitations in real life that limit their tatical applications. An M1 Abrams is not going to stall and be unable to shoot or your F-22 fall out of the sky from an EMP attack, but your civillian cellphone or non milspec laptop will be fried on the other hand. -
IÂ’m not an EMP advocator but certainly your comment contradicts what the Pentagon believes on its Navy shipÂ’s anti-EMP capability. Actually I do believe many of US forces equipments being COTS orientated, are not EMP proven. What I can recall is that some millimeter radar like the one on AH-64 or APG-70 of F-15E etc are EMP proven, but the rest of it I doubt can withstand EMP attack.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:The main problem with EMP warfare, as it has been pointed out before, is that EMP is a lot more effective on civillian infrastructure the military targets, because military targets, especially those designed from lessons during the Cold War were built with EMP protection in mind.
Hence logically speaking, if both sides were to engage in EMP warfare at China's doorstep, China would have far more to lose and get damaged then the USN, for the basic reason your average USN warship and military equipment is EMP protected while the Chinese civillian power grid and communications is not.
The thing about exotic technologies is that they tend to have very specific applications. Unlike what we see in the movies, EMP weapons have very real limitations in real life that limit their tatical applications. An M1 Abrams is not going to stall and be unable to shoot or your F-22 fall out of the sky from an EMP attack, but your civillian cellphone or non milspec laptop will be fried on the other hand.
http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/57462.pdf2004 EMP commission report.
The above quoted is from page 62 onwards. More information can be obtained in this congressional report.
The end of the Cold War relaxed the discipline for achieving EMP
survivability within the Department of Defense, and gave rise to the perception
that an erosion of EMP survivability of military forces was an acceptable risk.
EMP simulation and test facilities have been mothballed or dismantled, and
research concerning EMP phenomena, hardening design, testing, and
maintenance has been substantially decreased. However, the emerging threat
environment, Â… have combined to place the risk of EMP attack and adverse consequences on the US to a level that is not acceptable.
Current policy is to continue to provide EMP protection to strategic [i.e.,
long-range nuclear] forces and their controls; however, the end of the Cold War
has relaxed the discipline for achieving and maintaining that capability within
these forces....
The situation for general-purpose forces (GPF) is more complex.... Our
increasing dependence on advanced electronics systems results in the potential for an increased EMP vulnerability of our technologically advanced forces, and if unaddressed makes EMP employment by an adversary an attractive asymmetric option.
Â…
The current capability to field a tactical force for regional conflict is
inadequate in light of this requirement(EMP proof). Even though it has been US policy to create EMP-hardened tactical systems, the strategy for achieving this has been to use the DoD acquisition process. This has provided many equipment components that meet criteria for durability in an EMP environment, but this does not result in confidence that fielded forces, as a system, can reliably withstand EMP attack. Adherence to the equipment acquisition policy also has...
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Yes, the article is half-correct, but it has to be taken in its context. Since the end of the cold war the threat of EMP has been significantly reduced as a possible threat, as well as the military relying more on off-the-shelf technology that were came from civillian items. Also one must note that using civillian electronics has become more commonplace as the US military is currently making the transition to a Future Force Concept.
As a result, a lot of their newer stuff like laptops and the like that are basically civillian conversions are more vulnerable to EMP attack then a system that was designed with milspec in mind from the start. But once these technologies mature EMP protection will certainly be a part of their newest equipment all over again.
However in context of their key weapons systems like their carriers and the like EMP protection is still standard as part of their design. The F-22 is certainly EMP protected, as is their naval ships and the like. It's the grunt that has to worry most about EMP affecting his equipment.
But then again in any case, the most effective way to use EMP on a wide scale is to go nuclear, which isn't really an option in most conflicts, not to mention most people don't use nukes with the EMP effect in mind.
The useage of EMP on a tactical scale (conventional E-bombs) deal far less damage and are more limited in their scope. Not to mention ineffective against properly protected equipment. Certainly not the kind of one-shot gives us victory against them kind of weapon.
As the article pointed out, the Yanks are aware of the danger and that they slacking about it. And it's hardly any stretch of the imagination that they can, if they want, to do something about it. -
As the article pointed out, the Yanks are aware of the danger and that they slacking about it. And it's hardly any stretch of the imagination that they can, if they want, to do something about it.
its like when they knew the danger of Bio and Chemical weapon..but not untill 911 that measures were taken to protect the population.... the russian were even releasing the impact of simulated chemical attack on the 10th Corp in germany after evaluating the readiness and efectiveness of US army in dealing chemical attack. And the result were not pretty. You see they bought protection equipment from the lowest bidder. The GW1 shows the inefectiveness of those chemical suits.
EMP were dangerous indeed.. but during the cold war the navy reckon that after an EMP blast they can replace all the burnt circuits in mere hour or even minutes if trained well....any way if we say the American were not ready for EMP weapon ..i say the chinesse were even more so not ready..... -
Actually you know our own SAF also, how ready are we exactly for any threats despite all the stuff we see in the media?
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I think tat it something we should not talk on e net
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oh dont worry i can tell you that singapore are better prepared than the american (in terms of defending the population)
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LOL, apples and oranges. Not every american male has to serve and know what to do in a time of war.Originally posted by tankfanatic:oh dont worry i can tell you that singapore are better prepared than the american (in terms of defending the population) -
my bad..i meant singapore government have goes to great lenght to provide protection for the civilian population in terms of protection bunkers (NBC) and central core requirements in building construction against nuclear and bio chemical threatOriginally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:LOL, apples and oranges. Not every american male has to serve and know what to do in a time of war. -
No - american are better at it why ? because it is so easy to buy and own a gun there . When there is no war - they go shoot at each other, thus they have more shooting practiseOriginally posted by tankfanatic:oh dont worry i can tell you that singapore are better prepared than the american (in terms of defending the population)
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hai meh?Originally posted by storywolf:No - american are better at it why ? because it is so easy to buy and own a gun there . When there is no war - they go shoot at each other, thus they have more shooting practise .
how to shoot antrax with armalites? -
No insult to our own abilities, but I seriously do not think we are prepared for a large scale (and not terrorist) NBC attack. There are no lack of HDB estates that are not up to the task.Originally posted by tankfanatic:my bad..i meant singapore government have goes to great lenght to provide protection for the civilian population in terms of protection bunkers (NBC) and central core requirements in building construction against nuclear and bio chemical threat -
not to discourage you but American are not better at preparing for "coordinated event" they are good at individual.Originally posted by storywolf:No - american are better at it why ? because it is so easy to buy and own a gun there . When there is no war - they go shoot at each other, thus they have more shooting practise .