Malaysian Tanks
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Originally posted by gary1910:
yes as i mention earlier
[b]It is old news abt the Polish decision as stated by a Pole it is matter of nationalisation or Leopardization.If it is for political reason then go for upgrade of those old T-72.
it depend..like i said there were 2 group...one that favour the twardy and another who favour leo (or i might say not to pisss off the Nato)
But it it is military,reason, then Leo 2 wins hand down.
Reasons are:1) Getting the firesales ex-German warstock Leo 2A4 ( < USD1m per unit) is actually much cheaper than to upgrades the T-72M1.
its true...but an industry that can provide jobs is important too2) T-72 and PT-91 suspension are crap as compare to Leo2A4, likewise for PT-91M becos there is no upgrades done for it as well.
so true..no doubt about it3) PT-91M has no opportunity to further upgrades of it's armour as it has reached the weight limitation for the T-72 design whereas Leo2A4 is designed to be able to handle even higher weight, from 55tons of A4 to 62tons A6, and A6M should be even higher due to more armour upgrades.
this one is vast... and can be debatable....miniturisation and lightweight material is the thing that scientist aim ...and usually a tank designer want the tank to be as light as posible (depending on its usage).
But you are right...a heavy armored tank is more favourable in an open country as poland.4) The infamous popping turret still exist in the T-72 and all it's variant including PT-91M( no upgrade could solve this unless you change the whole turret), the reason is the crammed turret where tank ammo are stored all over the turret, whereas the roomy Leo2 turret not only much more comfortable for the crew, all it's ammo is compartmentalised so lesser the chance of popping turret like T-72 that make it infamous in GW1.
turret can be redesigned..the indian have done it5) The L44 is gun and ammo is already much better than in any T-72 variant, if you need better gun for Leo 2, you could still install the best tank gun in the world currently, the L55 gun.
well its true ..but the PT91m use a more modern gun with new type of roundSo in reality, I think what your friend said is full of BS, regardless whether MY buy more PT-91M or not, becos getting ex-German warstock Leo 2A4 is still much cheaper than upgrading the T-72M1 to PT-91M and Leo 2A4 is much better than PT91M for some of the reasons I have given above!!!
dont call other people BS just because he doesnt parallel with your opinion. My friend express his first acount and opinion because it is his country. So far his information more reliable than any of us....because well he is there.
he says there were one group of nationalist who think the german were not trustworthy and also want to protect poland tank industry and its worker...then there is another group who think poland wouldnt survive without the help of nato and EU...and think that they should kow tow to what ever they demand.
one of them are gonna lose...its not about which tank is better anyway. -
3) PT-91M has no opportunity to further upgrades of it's armour as it has reached the weight limitation for the T-72 design whereas Leo2A4 is designed to be able to handle even higher weight, from 55tons of A4 to 62tons A6, and A6M should be even higher due to more armour upgrades.
upgrades can be done regardless
if the upgrade added weight.... increase its engine power capacity a lot of country done that.
the turet of t72 were crappy..fine change it...the indian have done it.
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this one is vast... and can be debatable....miniturisation and lightweight material is the thing that scientist aim ...and usually a tank designer want the tank to be as light as posible (depending on its usage).
Yes, everyone want something like that, composite armour is one of the example, but the same thing hold true for Leo2 too.
But you are right...a heavy armored tank is more favourable in an open country as poland.
Let's say new material that not only light weight but also give superior protection, it could also be applied to both tanks.
But Leo 2 will still better becos it could carry more of that new material, T-72 with weight at 46tons vs Leo2 at weight 60+ tons, which one will be better protected?
turret can be redesigned..the indian have done it
Yeah, but PT-91M dun!!!
As I have already said , unless a new and more roomy turret is installed, the problem remain.well its true ..but the PT91m use a more modern gun with new type of round
It could be better with better penetrator, but by how much ?
Remember that the 125mm gun with their autoloader are forced to use a 2 part ammo which limit the length of the penetrator~ which also means limit the penetration power.
L44 have no such problem, that is why L44 of the M1 outperformed the larger calibre 125mm gun of the T-72!!! -
Additional weight does not means just engine power will do, the suspension and ground pressure may need to be addressed as well.Originally posted by tankfanatic:upgrades can be done regardless
if the upgrade added weight.... increase its engine power capacity a lot of country done that.
the turet of t72 were crappy..fine change it...the indian have done it.
More weight mean suspension will fail more than at lower weight.
Higher weight also mean higher ground pressure which also affect in mobility in soft ground.
As German design their Leo 2, from the very start, they already considered for future upgrades, from A4 upgraded to A6, there is no need for higher power engine, ungrades of suspension and the ground preesure is still below 1Kgf/sq cm!!!
Anyway for the Tank-Ex (modified Arjun turret in t-72 hull) which only weight 47 tons( perhaps due to limitation I have stated?), Indian Army is not even interested in it , has it gone thru extensive trial? What is it performance on the field?
With only 2 prototype plus only the info is from the infamous DRDO of India which also design the Arjunk tank, I rather buy other tank than to try that!!!