Will China help?
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Maybe I wasn't clear.Originally posted by sgdiehard:The fact that Singapore was the last ASEAN nation to establish diplomatic relationship with China is clear that Singapore never play the Chinese card. Singapore also turned down the offer by Teng Xiao Peng to train our troops in Yunnan and Guangxi province to avoid having any possible misinterpretation of our relationship with China. ASEAN is not made up of Chinese, no Chinese in any ASEAN country ever tried to give that impression. But Mahathir ever tried to advocate the use of Malay/Indonesian language as the official language of ASEAN because by population, more people in ASEAN speak Malay/Indonesian than any other language. Why should there be any fear for the chinese?
About ASEAN solidarity, the ball is not in our court. We are but a small dot to our ASEAN neighbours. We can talk till cow comes home about putting aside difference, until our neigbours see that they need ASEAN, see the need to cooperate, the need to be united.....but will they ever see such a need, even in their own country?
Honestly, if the elites in all these countries care for their own countrymen, especially the minority race, these people will not have to hope for outside help, China or USA. But you expect their elites to look after the minority? not even in Singapore.
We may be small, but there are other areas which, in times of crisis, will ensure that we gain the upper hand in ASEAN due to certain capabilities we have that they don't.
Don't mistake the size of Malaysia and Indonesia for strength. From what I see, they cannot defend ASEAN against many things. -
i do not believe that Singapore can ever play the chinese card. The neighbour will not agreed to it and we will be subjected to more political pressure onto Singapore or by force to change. Similarily SG will not allow extremist of regime in our neighbour i believe if PAS took over Umno in MY Parlimentary we will reject that regime by force.
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x2.Originally posted by Arapahoe:i do not believe that Singapore can ever play the chinese card. The neighbour will not agreed to it and we will be subjected to more political pressure onto Singapore or by force to change. Similarily SG will not allow extremist of regime in our neighbour i believe if PAS took over Umno in MY Parlimentary we will reject that regime by force. -
so at the end of the day is about who can help singapore and restore the balance of power. And that would be a party that is outside of this political arena. U can pick your choice of countries and it has to be outside of Asia.
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PAS will want to maintain a peaceful relationship with Singapore if elected. They need some peace to gain credibility in foreign affair. They were even wooing the chinese community during election. Too early for us to say that PAS equal extremists. But we can't meddle in the internal politics of our neighbors, definitely not by force, unless we have reason to believe that the new government, any government become hostile to us and threaten our survival. In fact, even UMNO may play the racial card which we will object strongly, if they sense the chinese votes going to the oppositions.Originally posted by Arapahoe:i do not believe that Singapore can ever play the chinese card. The neighbour will not agreed to it and we will be subjected to more political pressure onto Singapore or by force to change. Similarily SG will not allow extremist of regime in our neighbour i believe if PAS took over Umno in MY Parlimentary we will reject that regime by force.
If Indonesia and Malaysia both got extremists government, we may then have to play the China card.
Nobody can be sure in politics. Don't identify our enemy too early. LHL is right, we don't identify our enemy, our enemy identifies themselves. -
And that is the true nature of the politics in this region keeping each other from being too extremist. I think perharps at some point in history after the racial riot to keep the peace both gov has come to that conclusion.Originally posted by sgdiehard:PAS will want to maintain a peaceful relationship with Singapore if elected. They need some peace to gain credibility in foreign affair. They were even wooing the chinese community during election. Too early for us to say that PAS equal extremists. But we can't meddle in the internal politics of our neighbors, definitely not by force, unless we have reason to believe that the new government, any government become hostile to us and threaten our survival. In fact, even UMNO may play the racial card which we will object strongly, if they sense the chinese votes going to the oppositions.
If Indonesia and Malaysia both got extremists government, we may then have to play the China card.
Nobody can be sure in politics. Don't identify our enemy too early. LHL is right, we don't identify our enemy, our enemy identifies themselves.
because you see consistantly it keep showing in both domestics policy. -
If Indonesia and Malaysia goes extremist, I think we will play both China and USA cards.
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When our enemy identify themselves, it would be too late.Originally posted by sgdiehard:PAS will want to maintain a peaceful relationship with Singapore if elected. They need some peace to gain credibility in foreign affair. They were even wooing the chinese community during election. Too early for us to say that PAS equal extremists.
Nobody can be sure in politics. Don't identify our enemy too early. LHL is right, we don't identify our enemy, our enemy identifies themselves.
The nature of all religions is to be non-negotiable and to stop you thinking for yourself: Do this, you will go to hell. Don't do that, you will go to hell... blah blah blah.
The nature of a political party using religion as its ideological tool and weapon, will never be a resonable one.
These PAS freaks can't even stand couples holding hands in public. If you give your gf a peck on the cheek they will give you a warning (happened to me in KL). They cover up their women in scary black cloth that makes other people feel uneasy even in broad daylight.
That PAS is not extremist and will want to make friends with Singapore is probably the optimist's view.
The PAS is not interested in building up Malaysia's economy etc. They haven't got a clue even if they want to. All they know are religious mambo jumbo. he only thing these guys know how to do is to try and spread their ideology even further once they have succeeded in Malaysia. Reference Mao's China and Pol Pot's Kampuchea. After they won they started demolishing their own country to get rid of the old ways. And then they start to export their revolution.
Any revolution based on an ideology whether Communist or Islamic, will want to spread like a cancer.
If you think about how BADLY our char-siew-pao eating Singapore Chinese culture, values, etc clashes with PAS Islamic culture and values, you will know that for them, we are a "haram" nation - a stain in an Islamic SEA.
So it's a matter of time before they turn to bite us. -
And if we have to battle extremist ideology, we need a society that is willing to shed blood to defend itself.
And looking at the policies introduced by the government, I fear for this nation's social fabric.
What they deem as right, may eventually be our downfall. -
just a couple observation :
1) few years ago LKY hinted that the political landscape has change in MY. he was concerned enough for him to raise his voice.
2) In Order for PAS to get vote into Parliment it will need chinese registered voter in MY. so right now it appear to be friendly but just to get votes. -
i think this is a contradiction that the gov has given out since the 80. especially when we grew up going in primary school saying pleges as one united people ......after grow up we see policy to de emphasis of Singaporeness as a southeast country. But emphasis of the traditional ties. I am always wonder which social report or what undesirable factors that give an about turn to gov policy from developing nation identity to tradditional social identity.Originally posted by LazerLordz:And if we have to battle extremist ideology, we need a society that is willing to shed blood to defend itself.
And looking at the policies introduced by the government, I fear for this nation's social fabric.
What they deem as right, may eventually be our downfall.
The newly arrived immigrant are more educated and more culturely diversed. So Singaporeness is basically changing. Because the new immigrant will have different perspective as they grew up.
I saw few years ago in 1 of MRT station banner it state tradditional chinese but politically Singapore.
the contridiction never ends. -
Nobody identify themselves as our enemy does not mean we will have no enemy. We certainly don't start preparation only when we see clearly who are our enemies.Originally posted by chino65:When our enemy identify themselves, it would be too late.
The nature of all religions is to be non-negotiable and to stop you thinking for yourself: Do this, you will go to hell. Don't do that, you will go to hell... blah blah blah.
The nature of a political party using religion as its ideological tool and weapon, will never be a resonable one.
These PAS freaks can't even stand couples holding hands in public. If you give your gf a peck on the cheek they will give you a warning (happened to me in KL). They cover up their women in scary black cloth that makes other people feel uneasy even in broad daylight.
That PAS is not extremist and will want to make friends with Singapore is probably the optimist's view.
The PAS is not interested in building up Malaysia's economy etc. They haven't got a clue even if they want to. All they know are religious mambo jumbo. he only thing these guys know how to do is to try and spread their ideology even further once they have succeeded in Malaysia. Reference Mao's China and Pol Pot's Kampuchea. After they won they started demolishing their own country to get rid of the old ways. And then they start to export their revolution.
Any revolution based on an ideology whether Communist or Islamic, will want to spread like a cancer.
If you think about how BADLY our char-siew-pao eating Singapore Chinese culture, values, etc clashes with PAS Islamic culture and values, you will know that for them, we are a "haram" nation - a stain in an Islamic SEA.
So it's a matter of time before they turn to bite us.
Agree with you religion and politics shouldn't mix.
It may be optimistic to think that PAS can be our friends, but any use of force against another country with a new government elected, would be reckless and rush and probable irresponsible, such action is a clear cut invasion, and is internationally unacceptable, especially if PAS won with majority votes in an election that is legal in the Malaysian court of law.
Unless, the present government were toppled with a revolution similar to the one in Iran, when Ayatolla Khomeini took power, and if Abu Bashir were to take over Indonesia with the "people's power", there would be strong reasons for us to take action, but what action, will partly, or very much depend on what kind of support we get internationally, in the region?
If you were diagnosed with cancer, there is still a choice to operate or to heal with chemotherapy, or radiotherapy.
will USA use force to prevent PAS from taking over the Malaysian government? will China help, help who? to evacuate the malaysian chinese or help Singapore to invade Malaysia? Hope enough is done to prevent that day from coming. Don't bring your girlfriend to KL, so you don't need to 'peck' her in the public, then you don't have to be warned.