Singapore must help malaysia if indonesia attacks
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yeah notice that too!Originally posted by chino65:
U100!! -
Sorry folks have to adjust my write upOriginally posted by tripwire:that is on the assumption singapore is gonna sit there and watch indonesia occupy our northern frontier...
the greater possibility is SAF knocking MAF off the map and try to negotiate with TNI... maybe with a shipload of UMNO leaders for TNI leader's amusement...
It is sucidal for SG to help TNI and let MY goes down. When MY is down, our usefulness no longer required, TNI will take out SG, we will lost the moral justification to seek help within FPDA, because we chop one of our defence partner. The key is to preserve the balance of power so that status quo is unchange.
For some one to proposed taking out MAF is going to end up negociating with TNI isn't that a slap on your own face. why would TNI sit down for negociation when we are surrounded. Do we after expanding our manpower just settle for a negociation with TNI.
And have you considered Aus would not support TNI incursion on MY. Beccause it is not in the interest of AUS to have TNI control half of SEA.
If AUS is not going to support TNI why would they agreed that we support TNI.
If AUS is not on board why would the US be onboard to save our but. They would be here to take us down together with the TNI if we decided to side with TNI. -
if we were to side one of them alone, we are dead.
read up on the militaries of the TNI, MAF and SAF, more specifically, their equipment and numbers. and do not forget about our neighbours' neighbour.
remember that it is actually quite difficult to find Singapore on the atlas. if one of them can wipe the other out, what is stopping our ally from doing the same to us? maybe not immediately, but wat abt the future?
what if they fight halfway then stop? wat will the country that Singapore fought against do when there is peace?
lets say one successfully conquered the other, how are the territories going to be administered/occupied? should Singapore send in an occupation force, this will expose them to even more attacks in a low intensity conflict scenario... wat? u think the JI slept through all this?
wat abt foreign help?
i would like to add on that such issues must never be taken lightly... words like "fight Malaysia", or "fight Indonesia" coming from an adult makes him look like a simple child, unable to comprehend wat is at stake here.
surely, this is a call that would change the fate of Singapore forever so i hope that the people here will not take such things so lightly and speak out without giving this issue enough thought.
Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance to the State.
It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.
The art of war, then, is governed by five constant factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations, when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.
These are:
The Moral Law;
Heaven;
Earth;
The Commander;
Method and discipline.
The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.
Heaven signifies night and day, cold and heat, times and seasons.
Earth comprises distances, great and small; danger and security; open ground and narrow passes; the chances of life and death.
The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom, sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.
By method and discipline are to be understood the marshaling of the army in its proper subdivisions, the graduations of rank among the officers, the maintenance of roads by which supplies may reach the army, and the control of military expenditure.
1) u wanna fight a war? crash the economy? die?
2) hot like hell 24/7, full of mosquitos, dengue, malaria blah blah, need i go on? oh, bird flu too!
3) quite near, actually... open terrain, jungle, swamp, mountain, hilly, urban... u name it, they have it.
4) r u sure u want a studious guy who never went to war, who never (to my knowledge) went to see how the US Generals wage war, to point on the map and say where u n your buddies r going to die?
5) ... no comment.
peace is always better. if we fight, it must be because there are only 2 choices: fight or die. -
its just an exchange of comminuque... its not the signed agreements itself... such exchange is understandable given that the federation of malaysia which including singapore and east malaysia was formed on .16th of september 1963... and AMDA is still in effect until FPDA comes into force in 1971.
ofcourse, i take it from open sourcehowever... such communique made no promise by australia or any powers to come to the defence of all territories of malaysia...
look..the reason is quite simple...in fact its so simple.
1. After the birth of the federation of malaysia, indonesia see singapore and malaysia as enemy.
2. As a new independant elected nation, they ask for help from friendly nation to stop the agression of indonesia as both singapore and malaysia didnt have a strong army yet.
3. Help came from United kindom and its friend.
4. Both army were re equip with better weapon and training by these nation under the AMDA, also commonwealth army came in the defence of both country to delay if not stop the agression of indonesia.
5. bla bla...long story short the agression stop... but the hate and lust remain in the heart of the indonesian leader.(the propaganda didnt stop with the confrontation as right now indonesian leader were in the defensive mode and mobilising its propaganda machine to justified its action in malaysia and to save face)
6. Un easy peace were in effect, yet the AMDA felt that it is emparative to keep that peace with an assurance, so the FPDA were born for just that.
7. But there is a catch, the 5 nation felt that the agression of indonesia will not last long, because sooner or later all have to work together for the benefit of all.
8. From time to time the agreement were changed so that it would not be a total concept. hence...The Five Power Defence Arrangements (FPDA) were agreed in 1971 and committed Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore and UK to consult in the event of an attack on Singapore or Malaysia.
9. While the tone were soften... these 5 country still regularly exercise with each other in an unforseen event of an attack by an 'unknown' enemy. They have a Headquarters of the Integrated Area Defence System. The australia stationed troops and ac in butterworth and the IADS itself were upgraded from time to time.
10. The number of exercise increase even adding annual naval and land exercise.
the 5 nation really seriously consulting each other allright...especially when the flame inside the heart of indonesian politian still burning after all the years of peace.after 8 years of negotiation... i am sorry to inform you... east malaysia was eventually dropped from the FPDA.
look pal, its a journal...a journal could be wrong..back in the 60 & 70 some people still call the peninsular malaysia as malaya and thought the sabah and sarawak belongs to the british... its like when some people still think that malaysian still live in cave. For all the thing that we said it is a typo or flawed research.
here is a short excerpt from singapore MINDEF journal... and i quote:
quote:
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The very fact of its flexible arrangement means that any member who has become "less willing" can leave the FPDA, thus weakening both the indivisible defence of. peninsular Malaysia and Singapore element and the so-called psychological deterrence element. Conceivably, a more assertive Indonesia may in future raise questions about the FPDA's relevance.
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you can use that as your argument but everywhere else in the whole wide world it was written and even acknowledged that the the FPDA were tailored to defend MALAYSIA (as of the entire malaysia...because there were no such thing as East malaysia nor west malaysia, they were called that for the sake of geographical name ) and SINGAPORE from external agression. -
And if SG see such a large formation on radar, nevermind the Malaysian,s the Indonesia will be chopped into bits. I SERIOUSLY DOUBT Singapore will allow ANY LANDING CRAFT, Malaysian or Indonesian near its shores.Originally posted by CM06:I cant resist but say:
I doubt even 70% of that list of transports are actually in ready-to move condition.
I doubt more than 20% of them are at the same port and crewed/manned.
Without air defense measures and sufficient naval deterrence, i doubt any of them would make it to the opposite shore in one piece.
Naturally if you congregate more than 10 of those things together with a few battalion of troops/vehicles at the same port, we will push button once we see it on radar/satellite.
It's a guess on my part of course. -
in ww2... peninsula malaysia forest is probably just as dense as east malaysia today... that didnt stop the japs from using their tanks to good effect....
the tank didnt traveres the forest pal, all tank assault in malaysa were happening along the main road. And its a disaster most of the time and the infantry have to flank the defender by flanking attack.just because east malaysia is mainly forest... it does not mean tanks cannot be used in east malaysia... dont east malaysia have cars? and trucks??
there is no way to compare the phetetic british defence in malaya and the capability of the the MAF 1st Infantry Division 15 thousand heavily armed regular soldier, which currently is the only division that were in the highest alert level at the longest time among the 4 division that they have, because of the all year long Ops Pasir Sarendra. -
sigh..
1. 501 KRI Teluk Langsa
fine with me... can you elaborate each ship condition?
2. 502 KRI Teluk Bayur
3. 503 KRI Teluk Amboina
4. 504 KRI Teluk Kau
5. 508 KRI Teluk Tomini
6. 509 KRI Teluk Ratai
7. 510 KRI Teluk Saleh
8. 511 KRI Teluk Bone
9. 512 KRI Teluk Semangka
10. 513 KRI Teluk Penyu
11. 514 KRI Teluk Mandar
12. 515 KRI Teluk Sampit
13. 516 KRI Teluk Banten
14. 517 KRI Teluk Ende
15. 531 KRI Teluk Gilimanuk
16. 532 KRI Teluk Celukan Bawang
17. 533 KRI Teluk Cendrawasih
18. 534 KRI Teluk Berau
19. 535 KRI Teluk Peleng
20. 536 KRI Teluk Sibolga
21. 537 KRI Teluk Manado
22. 538 KRI Teluk Hading
23. 539 KRI Teluk Parigi
24. 540 KRI Teluk Lampung
25. 541 KRI Teluk Jakarta
26. 542 KRI Teluk Sangkulirang
27. 543 KRI Teluk Cirebon
28. 544 KRI Teluk Sabangbased on the fact that indonesia navy has as many as 28 landing transport ship, how many landing transport ship does malaysia have... dont bother if you cannot even list 3 ship.
1503 Sri Indera Sakti
1504 Mahawangsa
1505 Sri Inderapura
331 Sri Tiga
332 Sri Gaya
Tempur 11-15 (5 unit)
Tempur 21-24 (4 unit)
Tempur 31-34 (4 unit)
Tempur 41-44 (4 unit)
that is more than three but like i said earlier MAF were shaped not in an offensive role but their doctrin were more towards defence. So no need for so many landing transport ship -
such arrogance... from singaporean as well as malaysian forumners...Originally posted by tankfanatic:sigh..
1503 Sri Indera Sakti
1504 Mahawangsa
1505 Sri Inderapura
331 Sri Tiga
332 Sri Gaya
Tempur 11-15 (5 unit)
Tempur 21-24 (4 unit)
Tempur 31-34 (4 unit)
Tempur 41-44 (4 unit)
that is more than three but like i said earlier MAF were shaped not in an offensive role but their doctrin were more towards defence. So no need for so many landing transport ship
allow me to say this... until each and every one of those ships i listed is confirmed sunk... in war.. one must assume the worst... and consider every indonesian ship as sea worthy... and more then capable of doing its duties...
to simply look down on the prepardness, willingness and readiness of the indonesian military professionalism to ready every vessel at its command prior to a war... is gonna be our biggest mistake.
even if 80% of the indonesian transport fleet is down for maintainance or other reason... that is still a military lift capability on par with RSN and definitely superior to RMN.
while i dont think that TNI-AL would actually use those ships in the melaka straits due to geographical reason... i believe that TNI-AL can support a troop rush to kalimantan from every province of indonesia faster then malaysia can to support east malaysia.
not mention the fact that the huge sea lift amphi capabilites would allow indonesia to open and support a second beach front along east malaysia coast to the north and stretch the already overstretch MAF into a bi-front war with a simultaneous assault from across kalimantan.
lastly... i am short of time... allow me to say this... fence sitting is not an option for singapore on the long term.
and neither would making indonesia our enemy a best outcome scenario...
in my opinion... we cannot afford to offend indonesia... as such... we risk making malaysian an enemy... something we cannot afford too...
what we can do within our ability is to wipe MAF off the floor and try to seek peace with indonesia... (unless some genius here can tell us how we can wipe the TNI off the map with our limited resources... with or without MAF assitance)
the good news is... global powers will not want to see an indonesian domination of the melaka strait.. that could work in our advantage. -
quote:
you said if there is more than 3 show it here.. that i did. How the heck that makes me arrogant?
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Originally posted by tankfanatic:
sigh..
1503 Sri Indera Sakti
1504 Mahawangsa
1505 Sri Inderapura
331 Sri Tiga
332 Sri Gaya
Tempur 11-15 (5 unit)
Tempur 21-24 (4 unit)
Tempur 31-34 (4 unit)
Tempur 41-44 (4 unit)
that is more than three but like i said earlier MAF were shaped not in an offensive role but their doctrin were more towards defence. So no need for so many landing transport ship
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such arrogance... from singaporean as well as malaysian forumners...
i even said MAF were not geared for offensive, hence its lack of landing ship.allow me to say this... until each and every one of those ships i listed is confirmed sunk... in war.. one must assume the worst... and consider every indonesian ship as sea worthy... and more then capable of doing its duties...
like i proposed earlier, please show us the condition and if can those listed ship defensive armaments.to simply look down on the prepardness, willingness and readiness of the indonesian military professionalism to ready every vessel at its command prior to a war... is gonna be our biggest mistake.
may be u are right ...the TNI did look prettyeven if 80% of the indonesian transport fleet is down for maintainance or other reason... that is still a military lift capability on par with RSN and definitely superior to RMN.
if that the case there wont be any war in the first placewhile i dont think that TNI-AL would actually use those ships in the melaka straits due to geographical reason... i believe that TNI-AL can support a troop rush to kalimantan from every province of indonesia faster then malaysia can to support east malaysia.
the MAF 1st Infantry Division were capable and professional. I think it can delay or bog down the 4 million TNI pouring from south kalimantan.not mention the fact that the huge sea lift amphi capabilites would allow indonesia to open and support a second beach front along east malaysia coast to the north and stretch the already overstretch MAF into a bi-front war with a simultaneous assault from across kalimantan.
east malaysia have one infantry division, west malaysia have 3, one even a combined armes division, hows that would stretch west malaysia?lastly... i am short of time... allow me to say this... fence sitting is not an option for singapore on the long term.
i say dont involved in the war instead wage the diplomatic war against the confrontation, it makes singapore looks good.
and neither would making indonesia our enemy a best outcome scenario...in my opinion... we cannot afford to offend indonesia... as such... we risk making malaysian an enemy... something we cannot afford too...
singapore have offend indonesia so many times, i dont think kow towing now would look good for the populationwhat we can do within our ability is to wipe MAF off the floor and try to seek peace with indonesia... (unless some genius here can tell us how we can wipe the TNI off the map with our limited resources... with or without MAF assitance)
wipe out MAF? the american cant even wipe the stinking taliban! we can severely punish them..thats the right word (although i dont see the reason why to do that)the good news is... global powers will not want to see an indonesian domination of the melaka strait.. that could work in our advantage.
agree -
Originally posted by tripwire:
such arrogance... from singaporean as well as malaysian forumners...
It's not a matter of just pure numbers. Quantity (and quality as well) makes the difference.allow me to say this... until each and every one of those ships i listed is confirmed sunk... in war.. one must assume the worst... and consider every indonesian ship as sea worthy... and more then capable of doing its duties...
It doesnt matter if it has a working sea-lift capability of MORE than RMN/RSN.
[quote]to simply look down on the prepardness, willingness and readiness of the indonesian military professionalism to ready every vessel at its command prior to a war... is gonna be our biggest mistake.
even if 80% of the indonesian transport fleet is down for maintainance or other reason... that is still a military lift capability on par with RSN and definitely superior to RMN..
It's a matter of Logistics. You can lift troops, you cant lift supplies. You can lift supplies, you cant lift reinforcements. Sea-Lifting takes alot more time to move than say Air-lift. The longer your troops are at Sea, the higher risk of them getting seasick/lack of rest/sanitation/overcrowding.
In other words their fighting condition by the time them disembark will be lowered most definitely. Their vunerability also increases the longer they are in the ocean. the TNI will have to deploy sufficient Naval AND Aerial Cover 24/7 to protect this convoy until arrival? (Which you did not seem to have addressed in my previous post)
Even 100 U-100s wont stop a Harpoon/Exocet or KH-59 from blowing the Transport to bits.while i dont think that TNI-AL would actually use those ships in the melaka straits due to geographical reason... i believe that TNI-AL can support a troop rush to kalimantan from every province of indonesia faster then malaysia can to support east malaysia.
Yes you would need it in fact. Travel by sea takes time. Travel from Coast to inland -objectives takes even more time as well. Travel by land to inland objectives takes alot of time. In other words, you give Defending forces in East Malaysia plenty of time to prepare defense positions. The longer the time they have to prepare defensive positions, the MORE men you need to assualt those objectives you have to take. Also to mention, this is most likely(At most) A light mech aggressor attacking dug-in defensive positions with Artillery Support. It's pretty foolhardy in my honest opinion.not mention the fact that the huge sea lift amphi capabilites would allow indonesia to open and support a second beach front along east malaysia coast to the north and stretch the already overstretch MAF into a bi-front war with a simultaneous assault from across kalimantan.
As stated, even if you have a two-directional war, you being the aggressor -must be able to coordinate movement of troops at sea and on land (because they travel at VERY different speeds) so time planning is a factor to be able to capture your objectives at the same time. Otherwise, your attack will be most likely fail. Moreover, if Indonesia is the aggressor, you have to -attack- your targets. Regardless of how much troops you have, you have to use them to attack - defending positions chosen by Malaysians/well stocked and supplied to let you grind your troops against them. No point telling me you can take CTE/PIE OR just TPE from Yishun to Changi. Even if you come from two directions, you will have to take over Changi right? That's the challenge.lastly... i am short of time... allow me to say this... fence sitting is not an option for singapore on the long term.
Yes to not fence sitting but going all out to not offend indonesia is pretty stupid
and neither would making indonesia our enemy a best outcome scenario...in my opinion... we cannot afford to offend indonesia... as such... we risk making malaysian an enemy... something we cannot afford too...
No. As in. I rather we offend the first than betray a close relative.what we can do within our ability is to wipe MAF off the floor and try to seek peace with indonesia... (unless some genius here can tell us how we can wipe the TNI off the map with our limited resources... with or without MAF assitance)
If we dont have to do the first thing you mentioned here, we have more than enough resources to be able to deter any threats from the latter. I would be even more interested to hear what you say regarding Indonesia's ability to attack us with their military might. Please nothing like insurgents/commando wrecking havoc. If that happens, that's a BIG international boo boo once we capture those people and put them on TV. Remember the macdonald house ka-boom?the good news is... global powers will not want to see an indonesian domination of the melaka strait.. that could work in our advantage.
Of course can you believe, their multi trillion dollar investments becoming smoke over night and they will just allow that? -
This scenario would make Christmas Island a hot piece of real estate. -
Help Malaysia??? hahah.....think we better all pack up our bags and thrown in our Sillypore passports should that day come....no point giving our lives man...
Better get my bags packed so my kids would have to go thru all this NS shit here -
Haiz....Originally posted by Coquitlam:Help Malaysia??? hahah.....think we better all pack up our bags and thrown in our Sillypore passports should that day come....no point giving our lives man...
Better get my bags packed so my kids would have to go thru all this NS shit here -
Congrats on having the financial liquidity and assets to afford such a move. Probably professional qualifications as well. Actually i thought you -left- already.Originally posted by Coquitlam:Help Malaysia??? hahah.....think we better all pack up our bags and thrown in our Sillypore passports should that day come....no point giving our lives man...
Better get my bags packed so my kids would have to go thru all this NS shit here
In other news, thanks for trolling heh. -
I thought you have already fu.cked off from SG? Why are you and your offsprings still here wasting space? It's a small island, do us all a favour and disappear.Originally posted by Coquitlam:Help Malaysia??? hahah.....think we better all pack up our bags and thrown in our Sillypore passports should that day come....no point giving our lives man...
Better get my bags packed so my kids would have to go thru all this NS shit here -
I think even that boondock town in Cannda with the stupid name don't want trash like him.Originally posted by CM06:Congrats on having the financial liquidity and assets to afford such a move. Probably professional qualifications as well. Actually i thought you -left- already.
In other news, thanks for trolling heh. -
still haven't got your bags packed? still holding on to Singapore passport? why can't you just walk the talk and get out of here. You are wasting your life and our time here man.Originally posted by Coquitlam:Help Malaysia??? hahah.....think we better all pack up our bags and thrown in our Sillypore passports should that day come....no point giving our lives man...
Better get my bags packed so my kids would have to go thru all this NS shit here -
Everytime you post you mention this asinine "sillypore" issue. Is your vocabulary that limited?Originally posted by Coquitlam:Help Malaysia??? hahah.....think we better all pack up our bags and thrown in our Sillypore passports should that day come....no point giving our lives man...
Better get my bags packed so my kids would have to go thru all this NS shit here -
All this discussion about sea-lift, reminds me of the Battle of Britain. Any plans for an amphibious operation on a large scale and overt manner will first be a contention for air superiority.
None of the above mentioned sea-life assets that the Indon Navy has will be able to make it through without first neutralizing RSAF and RMAF. They face a hailstorm of Harpoons, Exocets, Mavericks and who knows even Hellfires can be employed as an anti-ship weapon.
And frankly speaking, I do not rate the Indons too highly on their naval anti-missile capabilities.
Personally, I feel that a more plausible situation would be the Malaysians trying to land more reinforcements and supplies on East-Malaysia. The Indons would know better to worry about the troops sitting on their borders FIRST before worrying about the West Malaysian assets. -
i leave for half a day... and there seem to be a misunderstanding already...Originally posted by Shotgun:All this discussion about sea-lift, reminds me of the Battle of Britain. Any plans for an amphibious operation on a large scale and overt manner will first be a contention for air superiority.
None of the above mentioned sea-life assets that the Indon Navy has will be able to make it through without first neutralizing RSAF and RMAF. They face a hailstorm of Harpoons, Exocets, Mavericks and who knows even Hellfires can be employed as an anti-ship weapon.
And frankly speaking, I do not rate the Indons too highly on their naval anti-missile capabilities.
Personally, I feel that a more plausible situation would be the Malaysians trying to land more reinforcements and supplies on East-Malaysia. The Indons would know better to worry about the troops sitting on their borders FIRST before worrying about the West Malaysian assets.
1st.. as mention above.. the indonesian troop lift is far superior to either RSN or RMN irreguardless watever self delusion some of us may have regarding TNI ability.... its suicidal to underestimate the TNI-AL.. especially in war support of a national war...
secondly.. never did i say that TNI would use its ships for support in an amphi assualt on west malaysia or singapore.... in fact.. i stated clearly that the indonesia sea lift would not be suitable for use in melaka straits due to geographical concern...
however... the availability of TNI sea lift capacities would prove useful for a troop rush to kalimantan... say moving troops from the java, celebes or molucus to kalimantan... well within indonesia... well beyond RMAF reach and well within TNI-AU protection. -
Shotgun - yes there is a Anti-ship version of the Hellfire. Taiwan has that deployed on their cobras. I doubt that we have those in enough numbers if at all though. The war head of anti-ship and anti- armour variants explodes differently so they arent that effective against the other.
Then please answer my questions which you have avoided twice already!Originally posted by tripwire:1st.. as mention above.. the indonesian troop lift is far superior to either RSN or RMN irreguardless watever self delusion some of us may have regarding TNI ability.... its suicidal to underestimate the TNI-AL.. especially in war support of a national war...
secondly.. never did i say that TNI would use its ships for support in an amphi assualt on west malaysia or singapore.... in fact.. i stated clearly that the indonesia sea lift would not be suitable for use in melaka straits due to geographical concern...
however... the availability of TNI sea lift capacities would prove useful for a troop rush to kalimantan... say moving troops from the java, celebes or molucus to kalimantan... well within indonesia... well beyond RMAF reach and well within TNI-AU protection.
1) Superior sealift is most definitely -required- by an attacker. Normal defence odds are 3:1. Dug in with arty support can increase to 7:1 or more. The more of troops/supplies/armour/arty/fuel/ammunition you bring.. the less of the previously mentioned other 5 options you have.
2)Troops condition will -drop- the longer they are at sea. They will not be in 100% fighting condition should they have to take a sea-lift then onto a few days trek inland to their objectives.
3) Time coordination between a coastal assault and a land assault must be well coordinated to maximise Firepower else it will might as well be two seperate weaker attacks.
4) I was also clearly stating the usage of TNI-AL sealift at kalimantan - what do you have to protect the LSTs from intrusions of RMN/RSN, RMAF/RSAF units from deploying weapon systems against them.
5) LSTs being used inland doesnt mean it's well "within TNI-AU protection and well beyond RMAF reach" How would you deal with a strike package of F-18s carrying harpoons escorted with a Mig-29s in interceptor role maybe even guided by a E2-C somewhere? <--Consider this is only a RMAF senario.
A worse senario will be that of a screen of F-18s & Mig 29s in interceptor role....followed by a strike package of F-16Ds with close escorts of F-16Cs in fighter/attack arming. The entire movement coordinated by E2-Cs and the F-16s can carry a full-load package due to the tanker hovering in the South China Sea.....That will freaking hurt. -
1st.. as mention above.. the indonesian troop lift is far superior to either RSN or RMN irreguardless watever self delusion some of us may have regarding TNI ability.... its suicidal to underestimate the TNI-AL.. especially in war support of a national war...
aiya..in what way that its troop lift is far superior than the later? numerical?however... the availability of TNI sea lift capacities would prove useful for a troop rush to kalimantan... say moving troops from the java, celebes or molucus to kalimantan... well within indonesia... well beyond RMAF reach and well within TNI-AU protection.
SU MKM have 8000km range with tanker support... so where exactly that in indonesia the RMAF cant reach? -
Well....financial liquidity I have, but not alot...don't need to be very rich to move....as long as you are daring enough and with some cash, you can do the same too....lots of ex-sillyporeans have done the same, come join us....Originally posted by CM06:Congrats on having the financial liquidity and assets to afford such a move. Probably professional qualifications as well. Actually i thought you -left- already.
In other news, thanks for trolling heh. -
That funny. Useless Sinkies can't even help themselve and now they are talking about helping others?
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Singapore got power to help or not?
If we 'help' already, who help us?