Leopard 2A4 MBT in town
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--------------------------------------------------Originally posted by CM06:They are here means the few things liaoz...alot of $$$ paid upfront
1) From moment deal -decided- we arrange to send people(regular) there to train in maintainence, driving, doctrine
2) From the moment deal announced and finalised, we pay $$ upfront and prepare to choose the vehicles.
3) Immediate arrangement of transport shipping back to our country. <--this takes several months at least.
Now, it's here, we have trained people here to look after the Leos and we are testing if the tank works here well.
My guess is, going by how some new weapons are announced, Mindef have already got the deal many months earlier, sent core tankees to train in Germany for several months, get these core tankees certified and operational with the Leopards.....means they are ready to use the A4s to fight a battle immediately upon arriving in SG soil should the need arises.........than announce the tank deal in the news.
Who knows, BMS could have already been installed onto these tanks. Now for the other upgrades to take place....hence the trials.
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my friend at DSTA said they had a little open house with the leo2A4 last friday, seems like they haven't worked on it yet
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Do we have the required LSTs to transport these tanks to land in Batam/Bintang?
we need them to flatten our enemies down south more than the north...... -
Singapore dem cham. gotta fight for water lah, gotta fight for sand lah... What else?
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2.we now import less water than you thinkOriginally posted by Daniel-Lim:Singapore dem cham. gotta fight for water lah, gotta fight for sand lah... What else?
3.across rivers
4.moving on the road
Besides SAF trailers,civilian trailers will be called out to transport MBT. -
As far as i can see , the tanks are -not- ready yet.
A few things to consider
1) Like chilly crab said Friday DSTA then have open house
2) Tanks are still in German paint
3) Tanks are undergoing trial run
4) You dont hear NSFs bragging they play in Tua Kee right?
Most likely senario like i mentioned earlier
- the Leo2s are here coming in batches. Now we are field testing them to make sure they work.
-we have regulars trained on the Leo2s
-Intergration of BMS in the next 3-4 months.
-Other Upgrades 2-3 months at least.
-spray paint 1 month
-first batch of NSF ord after all these(combat/engineers/mechs/techs) in a year.
-Mindef declared Leos OR in year and a half
-Armour column/parade on NDP in 2 years from now.
Just guessing. -
WOW
imagine in maybe 2 years time NDP Leos 2 mach-past while F-15SG r doing a fly-past 
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Originally posted by fallin:I'm actually pretty surprised that they came so early. Always thought military equiptment only comes like 2-3 years after ordering. Most definately didn't expect for them to come after 6 months.
Actually, the target is 2008 with full operational ability. That was reported by foreign media, but can recall which one. Yeah, I was surprised with how quick Leo 2 gets into SAF arsenal. -
Originally posted by Daniel-Lim:Singapore dem cham. gotta fight for water lah, gotta fight for sand lah... What else?
gotta fight for yourself and your love ones.
not just about water or sand.
Be it with 5.56 or 155mm. -
Ssshh!! 48 SAR
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cos B4 they announce they are already playing with it. nv notice how area D's tracks got widened a few yrs ago?Originally posted by Gun:
Actually, the target is 2008 with full operational ability. That was reported by foreign media, but can recall which one. Yeah, I was surprised with how quick Leo 2 gets into SAF arsenal. -
cool...sg going to get 33 more...change all the old tanks..
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Shhshh, MSD SIB coming to catch uOriginally posted by sgf:Ssshh!! 48 SAR 
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Imagine, Leo 2s, (maybe even centurion)... are the m728 still in service? and sundry for the vehicle drive-byOriginally posted by spartan6:WOW imagine in maybe 2 years time NDP Leos 2 mach-past while F-15SG r doing a fly-past
F-15SG, F-16, (maybe F-5?? they're getting old now... maybe like A-4s, 1 last show). Apache routine like this yr... puma and rappelling guardsmen, and hopefully chinook coming in and dropping off infantry rather than divers!!
drools.... -
2 years later? I was hoping they form a platoon just for the NDP this August! Now only one?Originally posted by spartan6:WOW imagine in maybe 2 years time NDP Leos 2 mach-past while F-15SG r doing a fly-past 
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not sure if anyone here has watched a Discovery channel /or National Geographic show recently on how they were reconditoning the some M1 tanks ...the amount of work done on it...basically it was like a brand new tank in the end
...and for those who watched..did ur noticed the little kangaroo sign on the turret?
i guess those tanks were for our aussie frens....
anyone has any idea if our leopards have been re- con totally?
or are they coming over in existing form..having jus cosmetic changes done to it only? -
Talking rubbish again?Originally posted by lionnoisy:Besides SAF trailers,civilian trailers will be called out to transport MBT.
Do we really have Heavy Equipment Transport Systems in civillian hands that can handle the 60+ ton Leopard 2? What does he think our trailers are? Optimus Prime?
More importantly, can our roads and bridges take the 100+ tons of HETS and MBT rumbling around is another question to be answered.
And this is the dude who makes noise about the Australians (who have far more experience and even held world records of transporting things by trucks) having issues with transporting their Abrams and glosses over our own...
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Sorry to burst your bubble.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Talking rubbish again?
Do we really have Heavy Equipment Transport Systems in civillian hands that can handle the 60+ ton Leopard 2? What does he think our trailers are? Optimus Prime?
More importantly, can our roads and bridges take the 100+ tons of HETS and MBT rumbling around is another question to be answered.
And this is the dude who makes noise about the Australians (who have far more experience and even held world records of transporting things by trucks) having issues with transporting their Abrams and glosses over our own...
But it has already been done. The transportation part I mean. -
Well from my experience, the SAF does indeed rope in Civi trailers to transport armoured vehicles. AFAIK or i suspect however, the limit for these civi vehicles is about 30+ a little bit tons. That's the reason why you can see 2 M113(13) or just 1 sm1(1Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Talking rubbish again?
Do we really have Heavy Equipment Transport Systems in civillian hands that can handle the 60+ ton Leopard 2? What does he think our trailers are? Optimus Prime?
More importantly, can our roads and bridges take the 100+ tons of HETS and MBT rumbling around is another question to be answered.
And this is the dude who makes noise about the Australians (who have far more experience and even held world records of transporting things by trucks) having issues with transporting their Abrams and glosses over our own... 
, bx(26) or primus(29) on a civi trailer when on the road. The weight is limited.
Regarding the L2, the Combat weight of the L2A4 is actually 55 tons and not (A6) 62 tons as mentioned. Can some of our roads take that weght? Yes.
Do we have the vehicles to move these MBTs? Yes
Are we reinforcing our roads and bridges so that more can take this weight of up to 60+ tons? YES. Take a look around some of the older bridges. Most now have spanking new grey/white painted concrete rebars reinforcing/supporting the old bridges now.
I think that we are buying some tanks as test/trail equipment to tear apart to study as well. After all, these MBTs only have a modern shelf life of about 10 years. I wont be surprised that by then we can build a localised MBT that's more customised based on the L2 blueprint.
So dont keep thinking those 30 arent really spares. -
Ney, the weight class of the stuff we have been hauling around is far less then the likes of the Leo2. If you are talking about hauling MBTs around you are going to need stronger transporters that aren't exactly that common.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Sorry to burst your bubble.
But it has already been done. The transportation part I mean.
Case in point when the US military upgraded from the Patton series to the M1 tanks, they realized that their current HETS could not take the strain and ended up introducing a new class of HETS. It's not as simple an issue as hooking up a standard trailer and expect it to go anywhere beyond a snail's pace or have issues climbing gradients.
But yes, we aren't sitting around on our hands when it comes to being able to move our MBTs around. Though the other question is if they can move around north (or south) as easily as they can do here.
The main crux of my point was pointing out was that moving MBTs around pose issues to every country that has them, which for some reason lionnoisy seems to think applies only to the Australians and that they are not going to do anything about it. -
....In peace MBTs are transported to cut cost. In war, they are driven. So no problem.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:But yes, we aren't sitting around on our hands when it comes to being able to move our MBTs around. Though the other question is if they can move around north (or south) as easily as they can do here.
The main crux of my point was pointing out was that moving MBTs around pose issues to every country that has them, which for some reason lionnoisy seems to think applies only to the Australians and that they are not going to do anything about it.
Australia has solved their problem to a large degree i think. Maybe Digger can say something - if he's still around. -
*wayang kulit music plays...Originally posted by Idle_King:Imagine, Leo 2s, (maybe even centurion)... are the m728 still in service? and sundry for the vehicle drive-by
F-15SG, F-16, (maybe F-5?? they're getting old now... maybe like A-4s, 1 last show). Apache routine like this yr... puma and rappelling guardsmen, and hopefully chinook coming in and dropping off infantry rather than divers!!
drools.... -
So be it if you feel its all wayang.Originally posted by wonderamazement:*wayang kulit music plays...
It would be wise not to discredit the SAF like that.
I do know people in the army who would not bat an eyelid to ruthlessly murder any invader who trespasses our land. Many Singaporeans I know can be frighteningly merciless when it comes to defending their property, family and way of life. -
We do have civilian transporter that capable of hauling MLC 60 vehicle, that I know for sure, not sure whether SAF has such vehicle as well.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Ney, the weight class of the stuff we have been hauling around is far less then the likes of the Leo2. If you are talking about hauling MBTs around you are going to need stronger transporters that aren't exactly that common.
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I get your gist.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Ney, the weight class of the stuff we have been hauling around is far less then the likes of the Leo2. If you are talking about hauling MBTs around you are going to need stronger transporters that aren't exactly that common.
Case in point when the US military upgraded from the Patton series to the M1 tanks, they realized that their current HETS could not take the strain and ended up introducing a new class of HETS. It's not as simple an issue as hooking up a standard trailer and expect it to go anywhere beyond a snail's pace or have issues climbing gradients.
But yes, we aren't sitting around on our hands when it comes to being able to move our MBTs around. Though the other question is if they can move around north (or south) as easily as they can do here.
The main crux of my point was pointing out was that moving MBTs around pose issues to every country that has them, which for some reason lionnoisy seems to think applies only to the Australians and that they are not going to do anything about it.
What I meant is that the Leo has been transported on our roads already. Whether they have already procured an entire new HETS is another issue altogether.