Great Generals in Singapore History
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yo moca,
you should have given it to some military museum.....there is almost nothing left of WW2 in Singapore -
Though the british had no tanks in Malaya/Singapore, they had many Bren-Gun Carriers.
I had read that it was some Aussie Bren gun Carriers that also fought at the foot of Kent Ridge, near Buona Vista/Pasir Panjang junction. It was this detachment that helped the Malay Regiment hold the ridge for a while. Then orders came for the withdrawal of the Carriers for no good reason......and their withdrawal led to the collapse of the Malay Regiment .........I am afraid I can't cite any reference to this........
Bren gun Carriers serving with the Indian forces -
For what i remember in my history,Percival was correct ; he 'forcasted' where the Japanese attacked from.But its still a losing battle right ?
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Percival also failed to mobilise the local population. Other than the Malay Regiment, the Singapore Volunteer Force and irregulars of Dalforce, there was no mass mobilization.
Also , there was no proper 'behind enemy lines' special forces.......
Look at what Spencer Chapman did with his little flock of commandoes.....
When the 101 STS [Special training school)was formed, it was too little, too late
In earlier wars, Percival would have been shot for his incompetence -
well some of the generals didnt like him and disobeyed his orders.Like the Austrialian general of the division holding the kent ridge line that ran north.
Cant remember the where it stopped. -
The question is, would any other British officer, giving the current thinking and resources given to the Malayan war by the Brits at that time, have done any differently from Percival?Originally posted by idwar:Percival also failed to mobilise the local population. Other than the Malay Regiment, the Singapore Volunteer Force and irregulars of Dalforce, there was no mass mobilization.
Also , there was no proper 'behind enemy lines' special forces.......
Look at what Spencer Chapman did with his little flock of commandoes.....
When the 101 STS [Special training school)was formed, it was too little, too late
In earlier wars, Percival would have been shot for his incompetence
I'm not entirely certain, it seems more to me Percival ended up the scapegoat for most things that could not have been stopped given British thinking and their way of fighting the war at that time.
Of course, I don't exactly think the mass mobilization of the population was very in British thinking at that time, given it was always their idea "hey chums, the British Army can protect you in war.", they simply didn't have any idea on even how to begin, and of course being able to mobilize a populace does not actually make sure they can win, given their equipment and resources.
With 20/20 hindsight, we can see what they could have done back then... but if we were really back then with them with no indication of what was going to happen next, not to mention in their culture, I wonder if we can really do much better.
One thing is to learn from their mistake, it's another to judge a person according to his culture's thinking and way of fighting with 20/20 hindsight and the modern standard. -
Don't the Brit POWs look happy and well fed.....?
Forgetting about Changi? -
If Percival had prepared for urban warfare, things would have been different. Then again, our ancestors probably were not psyched up to fight the IJA then because they had not experienced the terrible torture and extra-judicial killings carried out by the Kempei-tai.
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Casualties will be a very high if Urban fighting is carried out.... Jap when enrage by stiff resistance will carry out massacre like what happen to Alexandra hospital in Sg.Originally posted by LazerLordz:If Percival had prepared for urban warfare, things would have been different. Then again, our ancestors probably were not psyched up to fight the IJA then because they had not experienced the terrible torture and extra-judicial killings carried out by the Kempei-tai. -
the same also happen on Chandu Hills and Parit Sulong.
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And? In any event, the British didn't have the resources to equip the ANZ divisions in Singapore or anything. By and large, it took a year or so before the British could fight with any reasonable effectiveness in Europe. So bad it was that a Canadian division was directed to defend the southern side of the British isle against any potential German invasion. Why? The British were seriously short of equipment after Dundirk. Expendable? No doubt. British equipment were devoted to European theatre and most of the material by the way, was American.Originally posted by moca:The fact always overlooked was that Britain was NOT AT WAR with Japan prior to the attack on Singapore.
They knew Japan was a grave threat but actual fughting between Britain and Japan has not taken place prior to Kota Bahru landings.
So while it is true that they didn't prepare well enough and they grossly underestimated the Japs, it is also wrong to imply that Singapore was "considered expendable".
It was plain complacency and ignorance rather than any planned "expendability". -
Maybe if Singapore put up a fiercer reistance it might have ended up a Nanking instead of a Sook Ching?
In any case I believe the real lesson from all this is to be prepared for your own defence, of which I think is the reason behind the creation of the SAF as we know it today. -
Which make me wonder what would happen if the modern day singapore was err...transported back in time during ww2...
For all we know, all our superior equipments may end up useless thanks to our generals... -
The British DID HAVE tanks, as I have written it in my earlier post, the 16 light tanks of the 100th Light Tank Squardron arrived in Singapore on 29 Jan 1942 onboard the reinforcement ship Empire Star (Not Empress of Asia sorry). But these are unservicable and obosolete thus they were used as static gun platforms to form stronghold positions to defend against Japanese onslaughts. The fate and the type of these tanks were not stated, but I guess they are probably the Vickers 6 tons (shown below)Originally posted by idwar:Though the british had no tanks in Malaya/Singapore, they had many Bren-Gun Carriers.
I had read that it was some Aussie Bren gun Carriers that also fought at the foot of Kent Ridge, near Buona Vista/Pasir Panjang junction. It was this detachment that helped the Malay Regiment hold the ridge for a while. Then orders came for the withdrawal of the Carriers for no good reason......and their withdrawal led to the collapse of the Malay Regiment .........I am afraid I can't cite any reference to this........
Bren gun Carriers serving with the Indian forces
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Sorry, your point being?Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:And? In any event, the British didn't have the resources to equip the ANZ divisions in Singapore or anything. By and large, it took a year or so before the British could fight with any reasonable effectiveness in Europe. So bad it was that a Canadian division was directed to defend the southern side of the British isle against any potential German invasion. Why? The British were seriously short of equipment after Dundirk. Expendable? No doubt. British equipment were devoted to European theatre and most of the material by the way, was American. -
This is the first time I heard about this.Originally posted by Texcoco II:
But these will be no match for the Jap tanks which had a 37mm gun.
The British had some ancient Lanchester Armoured Cars armed with Vickers Machine Guns.
I don't know exactly which version.
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LOL true or not, then throw em away?Originally posted by moca:I once found around 30 rounds of old ammunition in Upper Pierce Reservoir.
It was dry season and I walked along the water's edge of the forest where the water level had dropped significantly.
Buried in the sand was about 30 rounds of rusted rifle ammunition. They came in stripper clips of 5-rounds each. I remember identifying them from internet photos as British .303. They had bits of cloth still attached to them. Probably they were contained in a cloth bandolier and was the ammo supply of some dead guy.
I took them home but threw them away after a few years. Damn...
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I think he meant to say that Singapore was a done deal given all that the British had devoted to it... which wasn't much at all. Even if we could have fought off Yamashita's first attack, I don't think the Japanese would have given up there and then.Originally posted by moca:Sorry, your point being?
And of course, the British didn't have any realistic way of fighting on for long to begin with... turning Singapore in Stalingrad certainly wasn't an option for them and they still had a fatal mismeasure of the Japanese soldier as not worth much in combat... factors that led to them being unable to fend off the Japanese effectively and ultimately leading their defeat. -
They actually saw action in Malaysia at the beginning of the invasion and did manage to kill many Japs until their tanks came along and punched holes through the Lanchesters like paper.Originally posted by Texcoco II:LOL true or not, then throw em away? -
For us to even turn the city into Stalingrad requires constant resupply, which, we don't even have.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:I think he meant to say that Singapore was a done deal given all that the British had devoted to it... which wasn't much at all. Even if we could have fought off Yamashita's first attack, I don't think the Japanese would have given up there and then.
And of course, the British didn't have any realistic way of fighting on for long to begin with... turning Singapore in Stalingrad certainly wasn't an option for them and they still had a fatal mismeasure of the Japanese soldier as not worth much in combat... factors that led to them being unable to fend off the Japanese effectively and ultimately leading their defeat.
And in any case, the Japs could happily bomb and poison our reservoirs for all they cared. -
in the defence of gen percival.... i think he really had it bad from the higher command... as the brits did not provide as much as they could to hold singapore.
Of course these people are not even locals, just some foreign rulers and yet they stayed to try to fight.
If singapore was to be attacked, how many generals would stay to fight? Or would they run with all their bonus and increments? -
I found in You tude The Fall of Singapore. 3 series. It has some interesting footage and some perspective.
Although some footage are questionable. -
this is a quote by general yamashita after the surrender:
"My attack on Singapore was a bluff - a bluff that worked. I had 30,000 men and was outnumbered by more than three to one. I knew if I had to fight long for Singapore, then I would be beaten. That was why the surrender had to be arranged at once. I was very frightened all the time that the British would discover our numerical weakness and lack of supplies and force me into disastrous street fighting. When the message came of the enemy surrender, I was very cautious, I was afraid it was a trick"
i guess brit intelligence sucked
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Didn't the Brits at GCHQ break the Japanese code?
I believe even the Pearl harbour attack was known to Brit and US Intelligence
and yet the generals failed........... -
They had the intelligence but prehaps were too arrogrant to believe it.