Great Generals in Singapore History
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Gen Gordon Bennet........the general who fled the Singapore battlefield without orders, leaving his men to take care of themselves. Typical of defence establishments, he was promoted to Lt Gen.............. but he was never given another field command......
Lt Gen Arthur Percival........the General who retreated all the way and gave the British empire her greatest defeat with the loss of 100,000 POWs in Singapore. He never inspired any confidence with his bugs bunny teeth. He never fought an attacking battle. For his world class exploit, he has a road named after him at Fort Canning... Percival Road .......hahaha...
Adm Tom Philips.........Phillips had long held the A-Star opinion that aircraft were no threat to surface ships, and so he took the battleships HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Repulse, and four destroyers to intercept the Japanese without air cover. He went down with his ships...........Donno whether he has got a road named after him......
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Just wondering which of the above great men the generals of Singapore would follow in their career path.........
Maybe our generals now in Bali can also hope for field promotions and performance bonus for their great exploits.......like signing the Extradition Treaty as demanded by the mighty Indonesians, supreme power over all the nations........hail..... -
yup, these generals are really "great"!
better without 'em.
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We are just vassals... who cares about Singapore at that time?
The impt part is defending motherland.
And i dunno wads wrong with u lately... love to link the treaty with everitin.. -
Wow.. They are lousy general..
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that's how the brits fight .....
in every big war they need to get rid of the old fuddy-duddy generals before they can start winning ....
that's why they say the brits looses every single battle except the last .... -
Lt Gen Percival with his Bugs Bunny teeth. '
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Does our leaders inspire confidence? -
Great Picture.Originally posted by Dr Who:
Gen Gordon Bennet........the general who fled the Singapore battlefield without orders, leaving his men to take care of themselves. Typical of defence establishments, he was promoted to Lt Gen.............. but he was never given another field command......
Lt Gen Arthur Percival........the General who retreated all the way and gave the British empire her greatest defeat with the loss of 100,000 POWs in Singapore. He never inspired any confidence with his bugs bunny teeth. He never fought an attacking battle. For his world class exploit, he has a road named after him at Fort Canning... Percival Road .......hahaha...
Adm Tom Philips.........Phillips had long held the A-Star opinion that aircraft were no threat to surface ships, and so he took the battleships HMS Prince of Wales, HMS Repulse, and four destroyers to intercept the Japanese without air cover. He went down with his ships...........Donno whether he has got a road named after him......
=========================================
Just wondering which of the above great men the generals of Singapore would follow in their career path.........
Maybe our generals now in Bali can also hope for field promotions and performance bonus for their great exploits.......like signing the Extradition Treaty as demanded by the mighty Indonesians, supreme power over all the nations........hail..... -
I dunno about the rest, are we being a tad unfair to Percival? Defeat aside I believe some historians indicated that he actually had a pretty good idea of what the Japanese were going to do and what to do about it, but was brushed off by the British top brass and given what he had.
And of course Percival was already starting with dice loaded against him. He had no proper intelligence to fight the war with, his troops were not well trained or equipped, not to mention disorganized and the only thing he had was numbers... and of course Yamashita did manage to pull a fast one on him as well.
Was he really incompetent? I just know I won't want to be in his shoes if I had to prepare the defence of Singapore at that time working with his kind of higher ups.
The question does remain though... do our scholar generals know how to fight a war and make the proper decisions? We won't find out until the stuff hits the fan. -
the new one yes, the one before the previous one yes, but not the ah bui ....Originally posted by Dr Who:
Lt Gen Percival with his Bugs Bunny teeth. ''
Does our leaders inspire confidence?
he looks more like a towkay than a general ... -
A few extracts on this guy as well:
And of course, when the war started:
Percival was made a full colonel and from 1936 to 1938 he was General Staff Officer Grade 1 in Malaya, the Chief of Staff to General Dobbie, the General Officer Commanding in Malaya. During this time, he recognised that Singapore was no longer an isolated fortress.[15] He considered the possibility of the Japanese landing in Thailand to "burgle Malaya by the backdoor[16] and conducted an appraisal of the possibility of an attack being launched on Singapore from the North, which was supplied to the War Office, and which Percival subsequently felt was similar to the plan followed by the Japanese in 1941.[17] He also supported Dobbie's unexecuted plan for the construction of fixed defences in Southern Johore. In March 1938, he returned to Britain and was promoted to brigadier on the General Staff, Aldershot Command.Churchill viewed the fall of Singapore to be "the worst disaster and largest capitulation in British history." However, Britain's defence, the Middle East and the Soviet Union had all received higher priorities in the allocation of men and material, so the desired airforce strength of 300 to 500 aircraft was never reached; whereas the Japanese invaded with over two hundred tanks, the British Army in Malaya did not have a single one.[26]
Some of the stuff against him might be unfair, but he did make some mistakes:
In 1918, Percival had been described as "a slim, soft spoken man… with a proven reputation for bravery and organisational powers"[27] but by 1945 this description had been turned on its head with even Percival's defenders describing him as "something of a damp squib".[28] The fall of Singapore switched Percival's reputation to that of an ineffective "staff wallah", lacking ruthlessness and aggression, even though few doubted that he was a brave and determined officer. Over six feet in height and lanky, with a clipped moustache and two protruding teeth, and decidedly unphotogenic, Percival was an easy target for a caricaturist, being described as "tall, bucktoothed and lightly built".[29] There was no doubt his presentation lacked impact as "his manner was low key and he was a poor public speaker with the cusp of a lisp".[30]Percival was ultimately responsible for the men who served under him, and with other officers – notably Major-General David Murray-Lyon commander of the Indian 11th Infantry Division – he had shown a willingness to replace them when he felt their performance was not up to scratch. Perhaps his greatest mistake was to resist the building of fixed defences in either Johore or the north shore of Singapore, dismissing them in the face of repeated requests to start construction from his Chief Engineer, Brigadier Ivan Simson, with the comment "Defences are bad for morale — for both troops and civilians".[31] In doing so, Percival threw away the potential advantages he could have derived from the 6,000 engineers under his command and perhaps missed his best chance to blunt the danger posed by the Japanese tanks.
Percival also insisted on defending the north-eastern shore of Singapore most heavily, against the advice of the Allied supreme commander in South East Asia, General Archibald Wavell. Percival was perhaps fixed on his responsibilities for defending the Singapore Naval Base.[32] He also spread his forces thinly around the island and kept few units as a strategic reserve. When the Japanese attack came in the west, the Australian 22nd Brigade took the brunt of the assault.[33] Percival refused to reinforce them as he continued to believe that the main assault would occur in the north east.[34] -
It should be noted that Britain retained most of her hardware for defending the isle back in Europe, and I would like to stress that the disastrous war in France resulted in a sizable portion of the British expeditionary force without its weapons since they abandoned all their equipment at Dundirk.
Lots of Admirals were still skeptics of aircraft carriers back then so some didn't foresee the use of them. As for the British defending Malaya, it is safe to say that the British do not have the resources to defend it nor are the ANZ troops well equipped for defence. The British Empire did not have the resources to defend it and it is difficult to defend a huge coast line like Malaysia's. -
I understand he is suppose to be some sort of hero from WW1.Originally posted by Fatum:the new one yes, the one before the previous one yes, but not the ah bui ....
he looks more like a towkay than a general ... -
Percival was actually quite competent and had won medals for valour in battle etc... He was certainly no coward nor was he a desk jockey and political lapdog like our SAF "Generals".
Percival knew years before that the Japs would be coming from Kota Tinggi and Thailand. (However, why he didn't situate naval guns at Kota Tinggi or other such preparations I don't know.)
But he had many other things stacked against him also. He was unable to get the aircrafts, tanks and more seasoned troops that he had been requesting for.
The fact that he lost the battle caused all his mistakes to be highlighted after the war. The Japs also made many errors during their invasion but no one rbing them up cos they won.
The retreat was set off when, without permissin, ground crew vacated an entire airfield intact after coming under attack from Japs planes. This set off a panic among Indian troops who saw to their surprise the white sahibs fleeing even before a single Jap soldier appeared.
The aircraft carrrier that was supposed to arrive with the Repulse and Prince of Wales had run aground and didn't make the trip. -
bunch of losers
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Percival was a staff officer who never commanded mobile operations in the field. This means he did mostly admin work. He did get medals for valour, but that was in his younger days, in WW1, as a junior officer in the field.
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It wouldn't have mattered without air or naval cover. The trouble was that they didn't have the equipment to fight with. Quite frankly on the scale of things, we were considered expendable since the war with Germany was far more important. In any case, the British simply didn't have enough naval assets to defend all the way to SEA. It took the last year of the war before they felt secure enough to divert assets from the Mediterranean and Atlantic fleet to India based of Ceylon where they launched attacks against the Japanese and played cat and mouse with them. It was only at Midway and Coral Sea where the Japanese Navy suffered severe setbacks enough for them to actually commit to more serious operations. By the end of the war, the most advanced fleet asset the Duke of York served as flagship.Originally posted by moca:Percival was actually quite competent and had won medals for valour in battle etc... He was certainly no coward nor was he a desk jockey and political lapdog like our SAF "Generals".
Percival knew years before that the Japs would be coming from Kota Tinggi and Thailand. (However, why he didn't situate naval guns at Kota Tinggi or other such preparations I don't know.)
But he had many other things stacked against him also. He was unable to get the aircrafts, tanks and more seasoned troops that he had been requesting for.
The fact that he lost the battle caused all his mistakes to be highlighted after the war. The Japs also made many errors during their invasion but no one rbing them up cos they won.
The retreat was set off when, without permissin, ground crew vacated an entire airfield intact after coming under attack from Japs planes. This set off a panic among Indian troops who saw to their surprise the white sahibs fleeing even before a single Jap soldier appeared.
The aircraft carrrier that was supposed to arrive with the Repulse and Prince of Wales had run aground and didn't make the trip.
Seriously, nothing could be done. We were doomed to fall regardless. Even the US didn't have the assets to defend Philipines. -
Actually I have read in Peter Elphick's Singapore: The Pregnable Fortress that the British actually DID have some light tanks, which send and arrived halfway in the malayan war onboard "Empress of Asia" ship (correct me this if im wrong) but these are so obsolete and un-maintainable that they are used as static gun platforms , the fate of these tanks and the type is not stated in the book, my personal opinion of those tanks are probably of the type, British Vickers 6-Ton
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OMG n00bs, they forgot spawn more overlords!
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The Japanese tanks are also quite useless but they provided fire support for their troops. If they were facing Soviet armour, they would be screwed. Zhukov mauled them when they tried to invade Siberia, so much so that the Japanese quietly negotiated a peace treaty and avoided attacking the Soviet Union during WWII. When the war came to a close, the Soviets invaded Manchuria and routed the Japanese pretty thoroughly. Given time, they would have invaded Hokaido too.Originally posted by Texcoco II:Actually I have read in Peter Elphick's Singapore: The Pregnable Fortress that the British actually DID have some light tanks, which send and arrived halfway in the malayan war onboard "Empress of Asia" ship (correct me this if im wrong) but these are so obsolete and un-maintainable that they are used as static gun platforms , the fate of these tanks and the type is not stated in the book, my personal opinion of those tanks are probably of the type, British Vickers 6-Ton -
The fact always overlooked was that Britain was NOT AT WAR with Japan prior to the attack on Singapore.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:...Quite frankly on the scale of things, we were considered expendable since the war with Germany was far more important. In any case, the British simply didn't have enough naval assets to defend all the way to SEA.
They knew Japan was a grave threat but actual fughting between Britain and Japan has not taken place prior to Kota Bahru landings.
So while it is true that they didn't prepare well enough and they grossly underestimated the Japs, it is also wrong to imply that Singapore was "considered expendable".
It was plain complacency and ignorance rather than any planned "expendability". -
Weren't the Japanese on the verge of withdrawing from Singapore when the British surrendered? had Percival persisted and carried the battle street to street., Yamashtta would have retreated.....and the japs wouldn't have had the opportunity to make new friends as seen below :
Don't the Brit POWs look happy and well fed.....? -
Compare with this group:
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More photos of Japs making friends with British with white flag at Ford factory
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Malay Regiment with mortars.....they were almost wiped out at Kent Ridge/Opium Hill....for several years I had tried to find some momentos at the battlesite, but was unable to find any......some people say you still can find bomb fragments and bullet holes on structures, but can't find any....so sad...
The fighting men don't deserve the Leadership they had......someone should just frag the whole lot at Fort Canning, then perhaps the outcome could have been different
(frag-the use of fragmentation grenades on useless officers commonly practiced in Vietnam by unhappy US grunts....) -
I once found around 30 rounds of old ammunition in Upper Pierce Reservoir.
It was dry season and I walked along the water's edge of the forest where the water level had dropped significantly.
Buried in the sand was about 30 rounds of rusted rifle ammunition. They came in stripper clips of 5-rounds each. I remember identifying them from internet photos as British .303. They had bits of cloth still attached to them. Probably they were contained in a cloth bandolier and was the ammo supply of some dead guy.
I took them home but threw them away after a few years. Damn...