SAF need to learn some foreign weapons?
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i read it somewher that when an officer ask a Delta Force trooper why he didnt safe his weapon at the camp, he say (while showing his trigger fingger) this is my safety.
is it black hawk down? -
haha yes rather famous scene. I think for our troops. Pistol training is more important. Hell, i think all should be issued one.
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Wah lau, why you say the Somalis like that?Originally posted by tankfanatic:may be, how to ask a high on khat muncing somali to clean their weapon?
militia: watta yu doin bro
kid: same o same o munching this sheeet..
militia: damn you ak look like sheeet bro, clean it up! ya dig?
kid: BANG!
militia: no jaw left to say *&^% you.
What makes you think they don't know how to strip and clean the weapon anyway? At the end of the day, all weapons need to be maintained one way or another.
No matter how reliable, an AK cannot fire without incident if there's mud or sand clogging the barrel and one needs to know how to take the weapon apart before it can be solved. -
A pistol and its ammo supply constitutes a great increase in weight, and space needed for the soldier. In most combate situation, a pistol is useless.Originally posted by storm_freaky13:haha yes rather famous scene. I think for our troops. Pistol training is more important. Hell, i think all should be issued one.
I would rather carry more rifle ammo or hand grenades. -
what happens if you lose your rifle? or caught pants down while reloading?
its not as if you'll be carrying like 6 mags of pistol ammo. maybe just 3 including the one already loaded in the gun. -
Sorry I'm the packrat kind of grunt, I like carrying a lot of stuff.
A sidearm isn't such a bad idea, having proved their worth in Iraq (and other conflicts of course) when they ended up being used after the main weapon failed or they were wounded and could only shoot with one hand.
I've read accounts of some of the grunts running the rabbit in FIBUA (that is one dude charges into a room to distract the enemy while the number two guy takes aim and shoot) using their sidearms because apparently a pistol was far easier to use in the position for the runner. -
Do we have all those foreign weapon?
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And of course in FIBUA a sidearm can be extremely useful, especially when you are shooting at your enemy point blank, there are still some alive, and you go "black" (run out of ammo or IA), at that point there is no chance to reload or retreat and it's either unarmed combat or to draw out your sidearm and plug that guy.
Having to choose between unarmed combat or sidearm, I don't mind the insurance of the sidearm (though of course the sidearm could be wrestled from you and turned against you if you're not careful, but hey either way it ends the fight).
It just might save the life of you and your buddy. I mean unlike other forms of fighting, FIBUA involves a lot of brutal, close in action and it's good to have more then one weapon at hand. -
In my opinion, the above Delta Force trooper is stupid....Originally posted by tankfanatic:i read it somewher that when an officer ask a Delta Force trooper why he didnt safe his weapon at the camp, he say (while showing his trigger fingger) this is my safety.
is it black hawk down?
being brave is one thing, endangering yourself and your peers unnecessary is another! -
If you ride to battle in a Humvee and is basically doing close-quarter environment, etc needing to search suspects etc etc, a pistol is handy...Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Sorry I'm the packrat kind of grunt, I like carrying a lot of stuff.
A sidearm isn't such a bad idea, having proved their worth in Iraq (and other conflicts of course) when they ended up being used after the main weapon failed or they were wounded and could only shoot with one hand.
I've read accounts of some of the grunts running the rabbit in FIBUA (that is one dude charges into a room to distract the enemy while the number two guy takes aim and shoot) using their sidearms because apparently a pistol was far easier to use in the position for the runner.
but if you need to bash through jungle to get to your objective, a pistol is just deadweight. -
With the change of battlefields from jungles to built up areas the need for it is increasing.
To me, if i know that the 'deadweight' may save my life when the need arises im all for it.
I'd rather have it and not use it than to not have it when i desperately need it. -
Yes, there's a great difference between being flown or driven into battle, and humping the bush for 8 hours - or more - just to get to the fight.
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We are simple riflemen and not some superduper "grunt" like you.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Sorry I'm the packrat kind of grunt, I like carrying a lot of stuff.
Most of the time, we are so exhausted we can barely carry ourselves and we fall asleep while marching at night.
Some keng-ka-leow will even leave the bayonet back in camp to reduce the weight. Can't blame them as after 3 days on excercise, even the fittest look like shxt and can barely walk up a slope.
Being the runner, I carried about 15kg in radio equipment, antennae and battery. Maybe that's why I am always worried about a mere one kg increase here or there.
If I had nothing but a rifle, its ammo and grenade, then i guess I have no problem. Heck I might even pack TWO pistols. -
I already said liaoz.
If the time comes you will have it and you will learn to use it.(Pistol) -
Agreed.Originally posted by spencer99:If you ride to battle in a Humvee and is basically doing close-quarter environment, etc needing to search suspects etc etc, a pistol is handy...
but if you need to bash through jungle to get to your objective, a pistol is just deadweight.
The extra weight is only worth if you are mechanized infantry or fighting in urban areas. Jungle fighting, a pistol and the extra ammo may be extraneous. -
I dunno man, I always thought the increase in 900 grams for the pistol and 500 grams or so for the ammo is a worthwhile investment especially with the increaingly urbanized battles we are expected to fight.
Can't say the same for bushwacking though, but I would still pack it for the hike if I had the choice. I mean it's not as if it was like carrying another MATADOR or something like that. -
well if you really want to bring side arm in jungle operation its up to you but make sure everyone else bring one too, because if the enemy sniper saw you with a side arm and everyone else dont, it is very likely he thought you as an officer and put one in the neck.
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A close second choice for the sniper would be the radio, or the radioman.
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A pistol is actually a darn good investment, but many claim that its more difficult to train the shooter as compared to a shoulder arm. But thing is...has anybody considered that a pistol is like a condom, you would rather have it and not need it, then need it and not have it. In an actual conflict, I did pack myself with ammo, grenades and whatever death-dealing device rather then be engaged balls to the wall in a firefight and be outta ammo, screaming for all and sundry to pass me some while I pray the enemy doesn't come at me while I'm holding onto my ET stick. Or perhaps we could do what the marines do when they run out of ammo...shout BANG! BANG! BANG!haha
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any pistol, smg or rifle is so easy to use. just need to know how to cock it and where is the mag catch. simple as ABC123.
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If you stow your pistol so openly that the guy can see you have a pistol from 300 meters through his scope then you are asking for it lor....Originally posted by tankfanatic:well if you really want to bring side arm in jungle operation its up to you but make sure everyone else bring one too, because if the enemy sniper saw you with a side arm and everyone else dont, it is very likely he thought you as an officer and put one in the neck.
However want to shoot LT also got other signs one, not just some grunt with a pistol. -
If you stow your pistol so openly that the guy can see you have a pistol from 300 meters through his scope then you are asking for it lor....
what the use if cant access the pistol fast? ive seen US marine usually place it at their left breast pocket for fast use, during urban campaignHowever want to shoot LT also got other signs one, not just some grunt with a pistol.
during vietnam war few american officer have their side arm with his aide , who always beside him. Guess why.
The same incidence also been done by Iraqi Republican army officers during operation desert storm. -
What I mean is to go about carrying your organic weapon, and not holding your sidearm unless necessary.Originally posted by tankfanatic:what the use if cant access the pistol fast? ive seen US marine usually place it at their left %#!@#% pocket for fast use, during urban campaign
during vietnam war few american officer have their side arm with his aide , who always beside him. Guess why.
The same incidence also been done by Iraqi Republican army officers during operation desert storm.
I think you answered you own question... if carrying a sidearm is SOP among the all the troops, it will remove it from being one of the features of finding an LT to snipe mah.
It depends on what your opponent is using, if the average grunt has a sidearm issued, then obviously seeing a sidearm is no confirmation of if that person is an LT.
In any case the pratice of carrying sidearms is no longer restricted to that of key commanding personnel in plenty of armies, I am assuming, for the sake of an argument, that this become SOP with the SAF for I think if we ever get down to using sidearms, it won't be on a you choose what weapon you want to bring along kind of thing. Everybody will be totting one.
In that case, even if the sniper sees you got a sidearm, he can't be sure you are an LT until he confirms other things, removing the risk of carrying sidearms making you more prone to sniper fire. -
In any case, a properly trained sniper will not just plink anybody who has a sidearm. A well trained sniper would know his enemy's SOP, as well as observing the target to be more sure of what he is actually shooting has command value.
I don't exactly think their mentality is "shoot whoever's got a sidearm".
They'll probably try to observe the actions of the individuals... is he just one of the grunts? Is he giving orders? Holding maps? Appearing to be leading?
So carrying sidearm makes you more prone to sniper fire? If the sidearm becomes standard issue, I think no. -
ok. so what is the SOP for SAF? who actually carry side arm? tx