SAF need to learn some foreign weapons?
-
Being able to fire a weapon is not quite the same as hitting something with a weapon.Originally posted by tankfanatic:if you found an AK47 and dont know how to fire it, you should kill your self. That mother were designed so that even 6 year old can shoot from it. -
That's why I was only talking about SAF's other infantry weapons.Originally posted by Shotgun:Another point to note is that our BMT syllabus is already very condensed. We hardly have time to complete our BTP, where got time to throw in foreign weapons training? Perhaps only certain units might conduct some. But really I believe that if we do ever have such a thing, it would only be during a real shooting war.
Picking up enemy weapons isn't exactly a good idea under normal circumstances too. Who knows what kinda booby traps await... remember GI Jane? LOL!
If your platoon's GPMG team is out of action, can you stand in as a gunner and your buddy the assistant if you've never fired a GPMG in your life?
Familiarisation with enemy weapons is a different matter and until we are in a war situation - i.e. you know who your enemy is and what weapons they use, this is quite pointless. What's the point of training everyone on AK-47 if let's say, we end up fighting the Indonesians, who use a FN FNC-type rifle? -
Moot point, the AK itself isn't exactly the most precise weapon in the world.
In any case, a person who is a good shooter should be able to make some use of an AK even if he had never trained in it before, but if you are talking in terms of learning foreign weapons as in taking the time to drill intensively in it... prehaps the need isn't as large as it is to make it a pressing concern.
It can be done on an ad hoc basis... as and when needed. -
Agreed.Originally posted by moca:Anyway, I definitely think we should have familiarisation with all SAF infantry weapons, including live firing, for all combat troops. All we ever get are these training shed courses where they give you dummy rounds and you learn to load and unload, load and relaod...
Anyone who think this is enough obviously haven't tried shooting a weapon you're not familiar with.
My first M203 round from a borrowed weapon landed about 30m short of target. This show how inadequate all the training shed lessons were. Of course we were shooting at the extreme range of 250 to 300m.
There will always be people who will say this is not necessary etc and they will bring out the "irrefutable" question of money as if we are talking about their money.
They prefer to spend every ICT & BCT redoing the same old same old FIBUA, FOFO, bayonet assault course, trench digging etc... as this monotonous repetition somehow saves money instead of teaching troops something new and very important.
Not to mention refreshing.
Personally, I also believe that each soldier should at least be trained to fire a pistol as well. -
When they recall you to learn to shoot pistols during ICT, be very afraid and pack your stuff properly.
-
I'll be very happy if the entire SAF comprised of ppl who could shoot a SAR21/M16 & there's not a single bobo shooter. I think spending time to achieve that would probably be better than training ppl to shoot all kinds of weapons from other armies.
-
There's no need to learn all the weapons of others.....Just learn the equivalent to your own.....But basic ones like SAR user learn how to operate AKs as they already have marksmanship training then all should learn.......Then more spec types will be like 84 gunners learn how to use RPG...Some of those basic weapons you can find around us will do....
-
That I can agree, and should be applicable to manuever arms. I think that was popularised in the movie, "We Were Soldiers," where Col Moore insisted his men learn the jobs of the people above them and below them. Its a good idea and perhaps ought to be implemented during ICTs.Originally posted by moca:That's why I was only talking about SAF's other infantry weapons.
If your platoon's GPMG team is out of action, can you stand in as a gunner and your buddy the assistant if you've never fired a GPMG in your life?
Familiarisation with enemy weapons is a different matter and until we are in a war situation - i.e. you know who your enemy is and what weapons they use, this is quite pointless. What's the point of training everyone on AK-47 if let's say, we end up fighting the Indonesians, who use a FN FNC-type rifle? -
the basics of an ak can be taught by airsoft replicas...
you wont know how easy it is to learn using a replica esp when you can strip it and do the reload/co cking/fire slector/shoot drill.
the AK is an easier weapon to RELOAD and ready than the M16 as it just clips in a new mag/ pull the co cking handle with the left hand and fire selector...
people never put it into safe in a firefight... just aim ath the leaf sights and pull the trigger!
if it jams, just pull the cocking handle to cycle the faulty round, thats it!
AK's are designed to be used by conscripts so its a rugged and ez to use weapon, plus, if the AK isnt made by russia izmash, chances are its a chicom copy or handmade indigelous ak so specs and tolerances can vary greatly.
accuracy... as long as its within 200 mters and you compensate for windage and elevation, semi-auto or 2 rd burst shots will usually hit the target.
Urban warfare dont even go anywhere near 50 meters most of the time so its who aims and pulls the trigger first.
but the ak's most feared factor is that it can be used to spray and pray when needed to lay down suppressive firepower. Bundled with the cheap and readily avaliable ammo, its a great gun for the untrained and poor afgahn fighters.
AK RUSH!!!
just my 2c. -
yeap.Originally posted by CM06:When they recall you to learn to shoot pistols during ICT, be very afraid and pack your stuff properly. -
familiar with other weapon is good.... especially our potential adversary weapons that we may have to use...
AK, FNC, AUG.....
AK in particular AKM and AK47 in 7.62x39mm is not very controllable in Full auto fire.... don;t think a lot of normal troops can handle it very well!
DAveC
-
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
A unit is trained on dissimilar weapons like the AK (Chinese version) and the RPG.
Do SAF need to learn some foreign weapons?
Dunt ask this question to our SOF!
US guys have to learn foreign weapons.This idea seems not bad.
--http://www.marines.cc/content/view/110/2/
[b](US)Infantry Officer Students Experience Foreign Weapons[/b]
This I have personally seen it myself. -
Yeah, I've seen them wear Tiger Stripes also. =DOriginally posted by touchstone_2000:A SAF unit is trained on dissimilar weapons like the AK (Chinese version) and the RPG.
This I have personally seen it myself. -
Who says you have to put an M-16 to safe when you load?Originally posted by ktk:the AK is an easier weapon to RELOAD and ready than the M16 as it just clips in a new mag/ pull the co cking handle with the left hand and fire selector...
people never put it into safe in a firefight... just aim ath the leaf sights and pull the trigger!
-
What exactly is so hard to use about the M-16? And how much easier can an AK-47 be to use? Unless it's like those guns in the arcade... the supposed advantage in "ease" of use, if any even exists in the first place, must be marginal.
Contary to what some say, the AK-47 is certainly NOT easier to use then an M-16 for a 6 year old. After all, it is heavier, the sights are crude, more recoil and all in all an M-16 would be something you'd expect a kid to shoot... if they should even be playing with guns in the first place. -
Contary to what some say, the AK-47 is certainly NOT easier to use then an M-16 for a 6 year old. After all, it is heavier, the sights are crude, more recoil and all in all an M-16 would be something you'd expect a kid to shoot... if they should even be playing with guns in the first place.
lol. you tell that to the somalis militia. After being recruited (more like kidnaped) the first training they have is to kill his own grandfather or the nearest old people around the village. -
So? Does that mean a kid can't use an M-16 is he has to use one?Originally posted by tankfanatic:lol. you tell that to the somalis militia. After being recruited (more like kidnaped) the first training they have is to kill his own grandfather or the nearest old people around the village.
The point is, all the rifles are more or less pretty easy to use, and that the M-16, given it's features, would be more suited for a kid to use. -
Any tom dick harry can make an AK-47(hence why it's so cheap). It's harder to do so for m-16 apparrently.
What i thought anyway.
The point is, we all, knowing how to use a rifle, charging handle, safety/fire mode, gas regulator and magazine, we should have not problems know how to use even an odd weapon that's pretty similar. If you are desperate to use foreign weapon, aiming is the last thing on your mind. Spray to send them scooting. -
my bad... i think the real reason why you can stack AK47 to the moon is that its easy to built and its durability. Meaning if it was given to a 6 year old kid he can shoot it right away and dont bother to teach him on weapon cleaning etc. But if you give M16 to a six year old kid you have to teach him how to clean the rifle, or else it will jammed, so Ak47 is much easier to use.
-
How come we are talking about child-soldiers.
Not untrue, but at the end of the day you still need to learn how to clean and strip the AK or else it will eventually foul up on you. There is no such thing as no-need-to-clean weapon.
I mean despite the reputation of the AK being able to shoot after being in mud for months, no real grunt, child or not in his right mind will attempt such a thing unless he really had to.
So the kid will still need to strip and clean the AK at the end of the day (and hence you have to teach him), I'm not sure how this is different from the M-16, except that you don't need to do it that frequently.
I think the reason why we see so many child soldiers using AK is because the AK is simply far more common, not because the Somalis (or what other country that have kids running around with guns) sat down and had some procurement contest evaluating which rifle was the best for kids to use.
-
may be, how to ask a high on khat muncing somali to clean their weapon?
militia: watta yu doin bro
kid: same o same o munching this sheeet..
militia: damn you ak look like sheeet bro, clean it up! ya dig?
kid: BANG!
militia: no jaw left to say *&^% you. -
Some US marine in Iraq are using capture sniper rifle to take out foreign figthers. i think that might derive from the way it was fought in the city.
-
you have to slap the "batminton racket" to make the bolt chamber and push the front assist for the M16, 2 more steps...Originally posted by Gedanken:Who says you have to put an M-16 to safe when you load? -
Actually, I find the forward assist to be useful only when your rifle is already quite dirty.Originally posted by ktk:you have to slap the "batminton racket" to make the bolt chamber and push the front assist for the M16, 2 more steps...
But when you have to resort to using the bolt forward assist after you co.ck to help close the bolt, it already means your weapon is so clogged up that it will IA during firing.
Otherwise, the forward assist is useless and hurts your hand when you do bayonet assault course. -
You safe the weapon before u load for training safety purposes lar. If someone is shooting at u, not necessary to safe ur weapon when u need to reload really quick.Originally posted by ktk:you have to slap the "batminton racket" to make the bolt chamber and push the front assist for the M16, 2 more steps...