SAF need to learn some foreign weapons?
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Do SAF need to learn some foreign weapons?
Dunt ask this question to our SOF!
US guys have to learn foreign weapons.This idea seems not bad.
(US)Second Lt. Nathan Bibler, an officer-student with Co. K at The Basic SchoolÂ’s Infantry Officer Course, fires an AK-47 assault rifle Feb. 27, at Marine Corps Base Quantico, Va.
--http://www.marines.cc/content/view/110/2/
(US)Infantry Officer Students Experience Foreign Weapons -
ATEC leh? Counted?
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What about Estonia? Should we learn their weapons as well?
Come to think of it, they use a lot of common weapons as us, like GPMG, M16 and the like, but they seem to use a larger range of firearms.
Estonian Weapons:
Type 69 RPG
B300 recoiless rifle.
Carl Gustav Recoiless Rifle(the 84)
FN MAG (GPMG)
IMI Galil
They also use the Robinson R44, maybe the RSAF needs to "try some" too?
Estonian soldiers in Iraq, hmm, what weapon is that grunt using? Gali?
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But I think lionnoisy needs to learn some weapons, locally used or not... got yhis time he mistook a P90 for a new grenade launcher by ST!
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Make sure our service men are able to operate all the basic weapons found in their company or unit first. Cross training them to use M203, GPMG, LAW, 84mm, signal sets, etc will take up all the 2 years they have...
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TS, talk is cheap.
It is not cost-effective for regular joes to cross-train on every weapon on the market. What they need is knowledge of basic weapon mechanism, that will serve them well regardless of the weapon they find on the battlefield.
If you have to resort to enemy weaponry, the million dollar question would be..where the fcuk is your personal firearm.
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Well there could be multiple reasons to resort to enemy weaponry. One being you somehow escaped from capture, and desperately need to arm yourself.Originally posted by LazerLordz:TS, talk is cheap.
It is not cost-effective for regular joes to cross-train on every weapon on the market. What they need is knowledge of basic weapon mechanism, that will serve them well regardless of the weapon they find on the battlefield.
If you have to resort to enemy weaponry, the million dollar question would be..where the fcuk is your personal firearm.
Its not a common everyday situation. I'm sure when a real war breaks out, they'd crash course ppl on some of the basic weapons of the enemy's. As of now, we are not fighting anyone, so we don't really know what kinda "foreign" weapons we need to know also. -
Given TS' track record on misidentifying a P90 as a new ST GL, plus all the political junk he posted on the Collins that simply failed to cut any ice with the grunts in here, I wonder if he even knows which end of the weapons the munitions actually come out from.
Maybe he'll try to toss an 40mm HEDP like a normal grenade, or prehaps try to shoot an SFG 87 from an M203.
Maybe he play too much BF2 liao, where one grunt can anyhow pick up a gun from the floor and shoot it, as well as jump into any helicopter, airplane, tank or jeep and use it. -
Precisely. But the main troop elements should be focused on mastering our own weaponry, which is quite a lot already. Betcha that it's impossible to master your personal weapon systems to a high standard until a few ICT cycles have come and gone.Originally posted by Shotgun:Well there could be multiple reasons to resort to enemy weaponry. One being you somehow escaped from capture, and desperately need to arm yourself.
Its not a common everyday situation. I'm sure when a real war breaks out, they'd crash course ppl on some of the basic weapons of the enemy's. As of now, we are not fighting anyone, so we don't really know what kinda "foreign" weapons we need to know also.
Foreign weapon training can be implemented on an ad-hoc basis in AORs. -
Haha..
Feedback o mindef.. -
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Wahaha... nicely put.Originally posted by LazerLordz:If you have to resort to enemy weaponry, the million dollar question would be..where the fcuk is your personal firearm.
Anyway, that said, while I'm not in favour of cross-training our soldiers in every single weapon in the world, there would be times when captured enemy weaponry would prove to be valuable.
It's just like the current US experience in Iraq... their tankees would store some captured AK-47s in their Abrams for self-defence if needed. As it turns out, the legendary ruggedness of the AK-47 is a major asset in desert warfare where more finely-machined weapons may fail easily.
It's just a matter of learning on-the-fly, that's all. -
Learn as required, not a standard curriculum package. I'd be in favor of a theory lesson to recruits where they learn to identify common assault rifles from around the world.Originally posted by fudgester:Wahaha... nicely put.
Anyway, that said, while I'm not in favour of cross-training our soldiers in every single weapon in the world, there would be times when captured enemy weaponry would prove to be valuable.
It's just like the current US experience in Iraq... their tankees would store some captured AK-47s in their Abrams for self-defence if needed. As it turns out, the legendary ruggedness of the AK-47 is a major asset in desert warfare where more finely-machined weapons may fail easily.
It's just a matter of learning on-the-fly, that's all. -
people are getting personal....
It is good to learn how to handle an AK 47, RPG and the standard weapons used by the MAF and TNI, may come in handy in joint exercise or in actual battles.
How much time and money do we need to learn these weapons? no need life firing, just need to know how to load, unload, how to put to safe, and how to aim and fire....need a lot of money meh? -
juz learn to fight with bare hands and legs
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In war there will be enough familiar weapons on the ground that you wont need to use foreign weapons.
Dont be stupid. You arent some bushman. A trigger is a trigger.
A gun might be different designs but most are still made to function the same way. I never seen AK rl before. But unless you tell me ak has no charging handle, i should be able to -use- it. -
My 2 cents - it'll be good to "learn (to use)" enemy's weapons. In BMT (my time 17 yrs ago) they only told us how AK-47 sounds, but never hear or see one, much less use one. But the question is which arms to train on - so many out there, cost $$.
What situation would I need it? Out of ammo, own weapon malfunction or escape after capture (this one from playing too many computer games), any number of possible scenarios. -
Who is TS?Originally posted by LazerLordz:TS, talk is cheap.
It is not cost-effective for regular joes to cross-train on every weapon on the market. What they need is knowledge of basic weapon mechanism, that will serve them well regardless of the weapon they find on the battlefield.
If you have to resort to enemy weaponry, the million dollar question would be..where the fcuk is your personal firearm.
I thought you were referring to SingaporeTyrannosaurus? -
But then, SingaporeTyrannosaurus thinks TS is someone selse.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Given TS' track record on misidentifying a P90 as a new ST GL, plus all the political junk he posted on the Collins that simply failed to cut any ice with the grunts in here, I wonder if he even knows which end of the weapons the munitions actually come out from.
Maybe he'll try to toss an 40mm HEDP like a normal grenade, or prehaps try to shoot an SFG 87 from an M203.
Maybe he play too much BF2 liao, where one grunt can anyhow pick up a gun from the floor and shoot it, as well as jump into any helicopter, airplane, tank or jeep and use it.
So who is TS?
This is very confusing...
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Until recently i discovered this
ts=threadstarter=op=originalposter
bloody confusing. I live in the age where forums use Abbreviations are meant for forumners name.
Too old too fast...
Our commandos are the only people trained in this i think. Afterall they are the only ones expected to be in enemy territory in that kinda of situation.
The rest of us, we fight in groups and die in them too. -
Anyway, I definitely think we should have familiarisation with all SAF infantry weapons, including live firing, for all combat troops. All we ever get are these training shed courses where they give you dummy rounds and you learn to load and unload, load and relaod...
Anyone who think this is enough obviously haven't tried shooting a weapon you're not familiar with.
My first M203 round from a borrowed weapon landed about 30m short of target. This show how inadequate all the training shed lessons were. Of course we were shooting at the extreme range of 250 to 300m.
There will always be people who will say this is not necessary etc and they will bring out the "irrefutable" question of money as if we are talking about their money.
They prefer to spend every ICT & BCT redoing the same old same old FIBUA, FOFO, bayonet assault course, trench digging etc... as this monotonous repetition somehow saves money instead of teaching troops something new and very important.
Not to mention refreshing. -
TYTY*Originally posted by CM06:Until recently i discovered this
ts=threadstarter=op=originalposter
(* means: thank you thank you) -
You can't sub out time at the range for training shed lessons, no two ways about it. Despite all the theory and stuff, if the grunt has not shot his weapon enough for real he can't really become a good shooter.
In which case I think our time at the range actually sending steel downrange is not quite enough. The few BPT shoots in BMT are certainly not enough, and after which the unit shoots only come once in a while. Compared to the time the US Marines spend at the range, we must be doing the bare minimum.
I mean how many HEDPs have we actually sent downrange in our whole NS life? (Only two on my part) I doubt it's quite enough.
In any case a good shooter will be able to quickly pick up different firearms, but a bad shot will still be a bad shot no matter how many weapons you have been introduced to at the Training Shed.
Anyway, ST= SingaporeTyrannosaur, TS= Topic Starter/Thread Starter -
Another point to note is that our BMT syllabus is already very condensed. We hardly have time to complete our BTP, where got time to throw in foreign weapons training? Perhaps only certain units might conduct some. But really I believe that if we do ever have such a thing, it would only be during a real shooting war.
Picking up enemy weapons isn't exactly a good idea under normal circumstances too. Who knows what kinda booby traps await... remember GI Jane? LOL! -
if you found an AK47 and dont know how to fire it, you should kill your self. That mother were designed so that even 6 year old can shoot from it.