What's will happen to the Ultimax?
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The only tool you need to tweak the gas regulator is your fingers.Originally posted by LazerLordz:LAD on a U100?
The C tool is used to calibrate the gas regulator I think.. -
I've shot a lot of U100 when I was in Safincos! and have not use the 100 rd drum much ! Our M16 mags a lot of time is not the best! we are using the old mag follower and the condition a lot of time is not at its best! Knowing what I know now with M16 mags... the jamming in a lot of case is usually Mags related!
Yes, they do jam once a while, but usually the U100 experience I had was quite good! excpet like everyone say! Blanks!
the U100 has its merit but I never see it marketed to its full potential. even now, the presence of the ST and stuff like that is minimal. maybe they are targetting all those African or middle east Nations!!!
DAveC -
Hmm.......I thought the drum mag is a lao jiao era issued item. But When I was doing GCC just a few years back, we are already introduced to the drum mag. When Live firing, SAW ppls also use drum mag, only during ATP then they use the normal 30rds mag. I was thinking since the drum is hard to load, why not introduce a lower capacity mag? And from the previous pics, the mag well seems to be deeper, so does this mean a new mag system is developed?Originally posted by davechng:I've shot a lot of U100 when I was in Safincos! and have not use the 100 rd drum much ! Our M16 mags a lot of time is not the best! we are using the old mag follower and the condition a lot of time is not at its best! Knowing what I know now with M16 mags... the jamming in a lot of case is usually Mags related!
Yes, they do jam once a while, but usually the U100 experience I had was quite good! excpet like everyone say! Blanks!
the U100 has its merit but I never see it marketed to its full potential. even now, the presence of the ST and stuff like that is minimal. maybe they are targetting all those African or middle east Nations!!!
DAveC -
STANAG m16 mags are known to deform when dropped and such , hence it isnt really built to withstand alot of abuse. even a bent feed lip can affect proper feeding of ammo IMHO.Originally posted by davechng:I've shot a lot of U100 when I was in Safincos! and have not use the 100 rd drum much ! Our M16 mags a lot of time is not the best! we are using the old mag follower and the condition a lot of time is not at its best! Knowing what I know now with M16 mags... the jamming in a lot of case is usually Mags related!
Yes, they do jam once a while, but usually the U100 experience I had was quite good! excpet like everyone say! Blanks!
the U100 has its merit but I never see it marketed to its full potential. even now, the presence of the ST and stuff like that is minimal. maybe they are targetting all those African or middle east Nations!!!
DAveC
thats why theres thermold mags and magpul polymer alternatives.
too bad they dont work on the u100...bugger -
The problem with live firing in SAF is that it cannot measure a weapon system's reliability. Every time I go for live firing my weapon is in pristine condition. And after day firing, they make you clean your weapon before night firing. Very kiasu and it is not something you can do in wartime.Originally posted by equlus84:Hmm.......I thought the drum mag is a lao jiao era issued item. But When I was doing GCC just a few years back, we are already introduced to the drum mag. When Live firing, SAW ppls also use drum mag, only during ATP then they use the normal 30rds mag. I was thinking since the drum is hard to load, why not introduce a lower capacity mag? And from the previous pics, the mag well seems to be deeper, so does this mean a new mag system is developed?
So if your nice clean SAW with a 100-rd drum worked perfectly during live firing, that's no indication of how things will be after you crawled through mud and dive for cover etc.
And what will happen after river crossing to 100 rounds in a drum etc? All these things I'm sure someone has tested but we don't know the result.
Assuming the drum works perfectly ie doesn't fall off, break etc and is perfectly reliable, there may be another simple reason why they don't issue drums for normal everyday training:
SAF plastic Blanks.
They can't cycle the U100 and is generally problematic even with the 30-rd mags.
With the drum, the chance of the blanks working will be even lower, I suspect.
Yeah, I also thought that a drum with a lower capacity would be great. Something like 50 or 75-rds. But then you can easily just load 75 rounds into your 100-round drum. -
Originally posted by ktk:STANAG m16 mags are known to deform when dropped and such , hence it isnt really built to withstand alot of abuse. even a bent feed lip can affect proper feeding of ammo IMHO.
thats why theres thermold mags and magpul polymer alternatives.
too bad they dont work on the u100...bugger
Well, the Mk4 is supposed to be able to take unmodified STANAG mags and C-Mags.
This is through the use of an adapter, apparently...
So does it mean you have to remove the adapter when you want to us the proprietary U100 drum?
I see this adapter/STANAG/drum etc to be a potential reliability issue in the USMC IAR trials. -
one more part to break, one more part to worry about i guess...Originally posted by moca:
Well, the Mk4 is supposed to be able to take unmodified STANAG mags and C-Mags.
This is through the use of an adapter, apparently...
So does it mean you have to remove the adapter when you want to us the proprietary U100 drum?
I see this adapter/STANAG/drum etc to be a potential reliability issue in the USMC IAR trials.
if the adaptor breaks, any gunner without 100 round mag is screwed. -
Hmmm@! did not realize the Mk4 uses an adapter to use betas and unmodified M16 mags! Thats a defeinte no no! like what it is ! One more part that will go wrong!
Wonder why they did not built that into the receiver design!
DaveC! -
The answer is simple.Originally posted by davechng:Hmmm@! did not realize the Mk4 uses an adapter to use betas and unmodified M16 mags! Thats a defeinte no no! like what it is ! One more part that will go wrong!
Wonder why they did not built that into the receiver design!
DaveC!
If the ability to take STANAG mag is built permanently into the receiver, it means the U100 would no longer be able to take the U100 drum. And for hi-cap you can only resort to the C-mag.
I think the reason why many people has the opinion that the U100 stands a very good chance at the IAR trials can be attributed directly to that article from Defense Review.
While it sounded very authoritative, are they privy to any real USMC sources? -
HI Moca
the source defeintly need to be verified! but from most of my sources, there is a real need for the USMC to get an interim solution for their MOUT operations. the IAR program is defeintly true ! but the selection for the U100 is questionable..
From the source that I am in touch with ! all IAR system will have to go thru a very vigorous torture type testing.. I do not know how well the U100 will be with the Drum that is not known to be rock solid reliable and durable! currently the program has kind of had some bumbs becasue of budget issue after the Hurricane Katherina issue!
So! only when the smoke is clear ! we will see who will be the winner
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Just like in the last mail ! i did not realize the Mk.4 uses this interim solution by putting an adapter ! Man! I hope for them having the ability to use all these mag system is like a mistake IMHO.... stick to a good solution and move on rather than trying to make it fit 10,000 type of system
Kind of disspointed the way the Mk4 U100 upgrade is!
Oh well!
Hope our U100 will prevail with this "mickey mouse and half and dust " upgrade!
DaveC! -
Well, the Defense Review article made it sound like the USMC has already selected the U100.Originally posted by davechng:HI Moca
the source defeintly need to be verified! but from most of my sources, there is a real need for the USMC to get an interim solution for their MOUT operations. the IAR program is defeintly true ! but the selection for the U100 is questionable..
From the source that I am in touch with ! all IAR system will have to go thru a very vigorous torture type testing.. I do not know how well the U100 will be with the Drum that is not known to be rock solid reliable and durable! currently the program has kind of had some bumbs becasue of budget issue after the Hurricane Katherina issue!
So! only when the smoke is clear ! we will see who will be the winner
!
Just like in the last mail ! i did not realize the Mk.4 uses this interim solution by putting an adapter ! Man! I hope for them having the ability to use all these mag system is like a mistake IMHO.... stick to a good solution and move on rather than trying to make it fit 10,000 type of system
Kind of disspointed the way the Mk4 U100 upgrade is!
Oh well!
Hope our U100 will prevail with this "mickey mouse and half and dust " upgrade!
DaveC!
http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2006/04/what_the_marine.html -
Its still goin onfor the IAR selection!
If it is selected we will hear the "big news"!
DAveC!
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TSR is to b blamed..Originally posted by moca:The problem with live firing in SAF is that it cannot measure a weapon system's reliability. Every time I go for live firing my weapon is in pristine condition. And after day firing, they make you clean your weapon before night firing. Very kiasu and it is not something you can do in wartime.
So if your nice clean SAW with a 100-rd drum worked perfectly during live firing, that's no indication of how things will be after you crawled through mud and dive for cover etc.
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Heh, reminds me of this time during one of my section life firings when one dude proned and got the muzzle of his weapon stuffed straight into the mud, filling it up and he went on to shoot anyway (probably because he was kinda blur)Originally posted by moca:So if your nice clean SAW with a 100-rd drum worked perfectly during live firing, that's no indication of how things will be after you crawled through mud and dive for cover etc.
Nothing happened, the mud just spluttered out and for some reason the safety spec behind him got scolded by our CMI warrant OC for letting it happen. -
If you have more info especially about the comptetitor's weapons, please update!Originally posted by davechng:Its still goin onfor the IAR selection!
If it is selected we will hear the "big news"!
DAveC!
Are they all 100-rd mag-feed - apparently this is a strict criteria?
True? -
Moca, I really don't get what you are trying to do or say... rather than posting from another thread, it might be wiser for you to READ what you are cutting & pasting first & understand the context of what was posted there.
As shld be kinda obvious by now, I don't typically hang around here. But then again, u might be out of your depth at serious forums where serious analysts and military types are at (like www.defencetalk.com etc.).
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Have u even changed a STANAG mag b4? Else would u even need to ask this?Originally posted by moca:Belt-feeding is slower to reload? How much slower? Does it take more than 1 minute to switch between belts that come contained in canvas pouches or plastic boxes?
And switching between bulky U100 drums is what? lightning speed?
Go research the price of the drum magazines, C-Mag prices are all over, surely u can do that urself, its a good guide.Originally posted by moca:However, you seem to be very authoritative when you insisted that the drums were not issued because they need to be factory-loaded and that's costly.
U dun know how army logistics work?
Precisely why I dun get the point of your postÂ…are you pointing out the obvious or answering your own rant?Originally posted by moca:If this is true then how come 7.62 belts - which also need to be factory loaded - were issued with every excercise, live or blanks? Can it be that belts are cheaper for the factory to load than the drums?
IsnÂ’t it obvious that belts are disposable? ThatÂ’s why they are called disintegrating belts?!
So u think that every SAW gunner should be equipped with an additional tool to hand load the drums? Try inventing one convenient to use, small & light enough. Or do you think that SAF doctrine says that soldiers should have nothing better to do except hand loading 100 rd drums by hand. So soldiers should hand link belt ammo by hand too?Originally posted by moca:Furthermore, from what I read, the drum need only be reloaded by an armourer with a simple reloading tool - and not some giant expensive robotic contraption. Or perhaps you mean transporting the empty mags back to base is too costly for the mighty SAF?
So u feel the SAF logistics has nothing better to do? Or r u not experienced enough to know the various ways SAF saves money? The reputation of the SAF as a reference customer is also the same reason why it is so careful with money. ThatÂ’s why the old timers can tell u about SAR 80s in reserve/logistic/crap units, beat up M16s/U100s in training schools like BMT/SISPEC, similarly the way plastic blanks are still being used. But u dun tell ur lau peh how to save money to meet the budget.
Again read first b4 u cut & paste. If what I posted was too long, then just ignore. But dun screw around with the wrong context and then put words in others mouths.Originally posted by moca:Next question is the reliablility of the drums. You go on and on about how terrible the M249 is. Yet we are more interested in how reliable the U100 drum is, never mind the M249.
Terrible? It was a comparison of the latest feedback from Iraq. Go figure
Many posters have already said eough, I do not need to tell u the conditions & how the U100 drum operates.
Perhaps ur infantry unit is crap, so much for your self-esteem, but more likely, uÂ’re too young. & I would not know nor care about what the recent troopers boys do or get to play with.Originally posted by moca:How many U100 drums do you fire everyday?
Dude, I have never even seen a U100 drum in SAF apart from open house or some pictures of sales demo to foreigners. None of my SAW gunners have ever fired their weapons from a drum. Of course, maybe this is because we are from some crap infantry unit so maybe you have an entirely different experience. So please share.
IÂ’ve expressed enough of my views on this. READ then post. Else dun bother.Originally posted by moca:The next question is about what will happen to the U100 post M16?
So, in your opinion, what will happen, do we maintain the stauts quo, do we change the U100 to take SAR-21 mags? This also imply a change of the U100 drum.
I dun sell crystal balls, else IÂ’d been doing online stock trading now or creating the new magazine to sell to everybody.
I don't bother to preach to strangers who have no relevance to me. Try following that long thread (not just my post) b4 sounding off Â… it was in reply to ppl bleating on about belt-feeds and 200 rounds being better.Originally posted by moca:I think everyone, including Dave, love the Ultimax. None is in any doubt that the U100 outshot and out performed the M249 in accuracy. Given a chance, I, and many others, will take the U100 over a M249 beast. So no need to "re-invent the wheel" and preach to the converted.
Understand that: Nobody here wants the M249.
First get the context right. When did anybody say its the only belt-feeding gun? Not dyslexic r u?Originally posted by moca:Me neither... but nobody is asking you to. The M249 is NOT the only belt-feeding gun in the world. That's the wrong tree you are barking up.
Get it right, all belt-feeds have the same problems since time immemorial. So WWII belt-fed machine guns never jammed? Try correlating that with the latest feedback from the Iraq experience with the so-called “best” belt-feed SAW in the world (if according to DaveC & the numbers in service alone).Originally posted by moca:The last question is the reliability of belts:
You claim that belt-feeding is terrible. Is belt-feeding terrible for reliablility in general, or is it that certain belt-feeding guns are unrealiable?
I know, for a fact, that belt feeding can be VERY RELIABLE. The 50-year old FN MAG, the 80-year old Browning M2 are all living proof. Not to mention the scores of WW1 and WW2 belt-fed guns of all sides.
Why on earth would u do that & defeat the whole purpose of the U100 in the 1st place? IÂ’ve spelt out the well-known facts about belt-feeding issues why didnÂ’t u peruse them? Oh yeah right, u probably didnÂ’t read them. Figures.Originally posted by moca:On the other hand, many drum fed weapons suffered from reliablity problems including the Thompson. Which is why the US stopped issuing Thompson drums during WW2. The Bren also had a 100-rd drum mag for air-defense role which was also not generally issued due to reliability problems.
I am merely asking if belt-feed might be an option for the U100 IF the drums are indeed unreliable.
IÂ’ve listed plenty of reasons why drums are not widely issued. Its not just reliability. Its cost too. Ur examples of the Thompson & Bren are ridiculous. The former is not even a SAW or MG to warrant the cost, logistics resupply issues etc. The latter is a top loading gun, what the hell can u see once u fit a drum on top? Revisit what I mentioned b4 in the other thread.
The rest have said enough about the U100 drum's reliability. Drum design has improved & the U100Â’s reflects that. What you just have to note is this, the strength of a drumÂ’s spring directly correlates with its reliability. This needs to be balanced against the weight penalty since the stiffer the spring the heavier the spring and casing assembly. Its about finding the right balance, dependent also on the usual factors like ammo quality, wear & tear on the U100 itself. But note that it is stiff enough to enable long-term storage fully loaded without suffering spring fatigue.
The older troopers like me know its certainly good enough & gives the lie to all that crap about jammomatics – that applies to blanks only. Or do u not know why it happens with blanks too?
IÂ’m sure u will have replies & more questions, but dun expect any speedy response if at all. IÂ’m done with long posts. -
Ahh...Just STFU.Originally posted by Let:Moca, I really don't get what you are trying to do or say... rather than posting from another thread, it might be wiser for you ...blah blah....
Will you be missed?Originally posted by Let:As shld be kinda obvious by now, I don't typically hang around here. blah blah..
"serious analyst" ? Like you?Originally posted by Let:blah blah... u might be out of your depth at serious forums where serious analysts and military types are at (like www.defencetalk.com etc.).