What is next platform SG will buy 2nd hand

• touchstone_2000

  12 Mar 07, 00:26

  Originally posted by spartan6:

  1) UH-60 or NH-90 r possible choice
  
  2) More second-hand C-130-30H or new C-130-30J
  
  3)Longshot Range Extension System

  2. Soft skin vehicles only. Can be better.
• CM06

  12 Mar 07, 00:28

  yeah my mistake...ec-135 is way too small. The new huey model is pretty good but the Uh-60 oh my it's hot.. hope we get it with the ESSS
• gary1910

  12 Mar 07, 01:34

  Originally posted by sgf:

  Israel develops MLRS? I thought those in their arsenal were bought from the yanks?

  Israeli has developed rocket system like LAR-160, MAR-240,MAR-290 and MAR-350, most of them are now using Trajectory Corrected rockets.
  
  Israeli's Ramam Trajectory Corrected System which is not exactly PGM but improved the CEP of rockets I believe to abt 0.5% of range.
  
  http://www.israeli-weapons.com/israeli_weapons_missile_systems.html
  
  And here the LR tactical missile development:
  
  Lora,or Long Range Artillery is a GPS/INS guided LR tactical missile with range above 200km , possible up 300km and CEP of only 5m.
  
  Next is the Extended Range Artillery (Extra) munition system for land- or sea-based launches which is also GPS/INS guided LR tactical missile with range more than 130km with CEP of 10m.
  
  The above 2 system could be land based or sea based for NSFS.
  
  http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1077112&C=landwar
  
  
• sgf

  12 Mar 07, 09:50

  Originally posted by Shotgun:

  I don't remember flats near Seletar. In any case.. if I had an MLRS type weapon... I wouldn't want to waste it on flats and other targets of little military importance.

  There are landed houses near Seletar. If you've ever taken the bus into Seletar East camp you'll know what I mean. And of course you wouldn't aim your missiles at flats but the point is, MLRS doesn't have eyes. Aim it at an army camp & any civilian target nearby gets it too.
• Thrall79

  12 Mar 07, 17:16

  We are digressing. Anyway, back to the topic. What is exactly the rationale for buying the Vas-gotlands? No doubt, they are more capable than the Scorpenes and purchased at a good price.Will we absorb the the rest from the Swedes as well in the near futute? My thinking is that RSN is probably waiting to buy/build a newer generation of subs once it becomes available; maybe via cooperation with the Swedes. It is no point buying a submarine like the Scorpene or any other submarine of the same generation when come next decade, they are rendered obsolete. Especially since you do intend to operate the subs for a long time.
  
  Edit: by which time, RSN would already have evolved competent operating procedures and combat techniques in the waters in SEA.
• Shotgun

  12 Mar 07, 20:16

  Originally posted by sgf:

  There are landed houses near Seletar. If you've ever taken the bus into Seletar East camp you'll know what I mean. And of course you wouldn't aim your missiles at flats but the point is, MLRS doesn't have eyes. Aim it at an army camp & any civilian target nearby gets it too.

  sgf, I am fully aware that there are landed houses there. But its located mainly towards west camp, not east. If you've ever BEEN in Seletar camp, you'll realize its a HUGE camp. An MLRS can release its bomblets right in the center of it and not hit any civilian structures nearby (which are like nearer to west camp... )
  
  I spent a lot of time in that camp. It was where I trained for my AHM there, and pretty much ran the entire Seletar East & West camp. Don't worry... there's nothing there vulnerable to MLRS that hasn't been adequately protected.
• sgf

  13 Mar 07, 13:16

  Originally posted by Shotgun:

  sgf, I am fully aware that there are landed houses there. But its located mainly towards west camp, not east. If you've ever BEEN in Seletar camp, you'll realize its a HUGE camp. An MLRS can release its bomblets right in the center of it and not hit any civilian structures nearby (which are like nearer to west camp... )
  
  I spent a lot of time in that camp. It was where I trained for my AHM there, and pretty much ran the entire Seletar East & West camp. Don't worry... there's nothing there vulnerable to MLRS that hasn't been adequately protected.

  Your AHM doesn't impress me. I was at Seletar East as a NSF and am still going there as a NSman. Each time I take the bus into camp & drop off outside the medical centre, I see lots of houses along the way. So don't tell me the houses are at West camp.
  
  If MLRS launch is targetted at say HQ ARMCEG or 35 SCE, are you 101% sure no stray missile is going to end up along Piccadilly, Old Birdcage Walk or Mornington Crescent? Will you be as sure if YOU and YOUR FAMILY lived there?
• spartan6

  15 Mar 07, 22:23

  Huh? Soft skin vehicles only
• tripwire

  18 Mar 07, 07:59

  any 2nd hand nuke for sale? maybe we should get some of those... best bet ever i would say.
  
  since the only way to find out if our black market nuke works would be to test it on our neighbour's capital.
  
  now.. question is.... would KL or jakarta be ready to step forward?
• touchstone_2000

  19 Mar 07, 17:28

  Originally posted by spartan6:

  Huh? Soft skin vehicles only

  Soft skin vehicles, landrovers, 3 tonners etc. No armor.
  
  I think the C-130 can max take in one Bionix or 1 ATTC.
  
  So yes, air logistics can be beefed up.
• SingaporeTyrannosaur

  19 Mar 07, 17:36

  Well, MLRS are grid square removers, so any errant arty will cause massive problems with us if they miss their intended targets.
  
  On a different note, the issue of northern arty is a real problem for this is something that can neutralize the RSAF if needed even before it can get off the ground (or at least seriously hamper operations by cratering runaways or scattering submunitions).
  
  To prevent such a thing from happening, we need to push back all potential launchers beyond 100+ km from the bases (assuming ER rockets)... now how's that going to work unless we have a serious pre-emptive strike plan in the works?
• spartan6

  19 Mar 07, 21:14

  Still dun understands C-130 can carry 3 light tanks, ATTC is not soft-skinned
• SingaporeTyrannosaur

  19 Mar 07, 22:01

  How can one C-130 take three light tanks???!!!
• CM06

  20 Mar 07, 00:12

  The C-130J can carry up to 37,200 pounds or an average of 16.85 Tons.
  
  THe C-130J-030 (stretched) version gives an addtional 30% increase in lift capacity (about 50,000 pounds) or about 22 Tons.
  
  M113 is 13 tons. SM1 is 18 tons. . . so one herc for one armoured vehicle. Not good odds heh.
  
  Yes the Chinook is a better carrier for armour vehicles (27 tons, CH47-SD) However its external lift. vs internal lift of C-130J
  
  I want to see AC-130s hehe. dream dream....
• touchstone_2000

  20 Mar 07, 14:23

  No need to dream lah. DIY Spooky not that difficult implement, just damn difficult to justify.
  
  2 or more aircraft just for flying around at night.
  
  Target acquisition cameras (low light and or infra red). with auto pilot slaved to fly in a circle to keep the box on target.
• CM06

  20 Mar 07, 16:37

  Not easy to DIY.
  
  But If can,
  
  Under nose Config: (controlled by co-pilot)
  dual-barrel 30mm Chaingun
  
  Side, wing stub pylons(each side) Guided and control by WSO inside the body.
  8 X spike(NDS) + 2 HARM + 2 Sidewinder
  32 X 76mm **Guided** hydra rockets pods
  
  Each door (slide to different gun, slide away to exit/leave man by a gunner each)
  
  twin-barrel super light 40mm AGL +
  0.5 HMG+
  GPMG (minigun too overkill IMO)
  
  + extra ECM, CMS, Up-armour
  
  Five man bird of DOOM...muahahaha....*dream* *dream*
  
  Someday man..*dream dream*
  
• kotay

  20 Mar 07, 16:48

  Originally posted by CM06:

  Yes the Chinook is a better carrier for armour vehicles (27 tons, CH47-SD) However its external lift. vs internal lift of C-130J

  Dude! The CH-47SD can lift 27 tons ??!! Where did you get that from?
• spartan6

  20 Mar 07, 18:58

  Sorry sorry my mistake wroung aircraft Anyway AMX-13 is only 13 tons
• LazerLordz

  20 Mar 07, 19:01

  Originally posted by CM06:

  Not easy to DIY.
  
  But If can,
  
  Under nose Config: (controlled by co-pilot)
  dual-barrel 30mm Chaingun
  
  Side, wing stub pylons(each side) Guided and control by WSO inside the body.
  8 X spike(NDS) + 2 HARM + 2 Sidewinder
  32 X 76mm **Guided** hydra rockets pods
  
  Each door (slide to different gun, slide away to exit/leave man by a gunner each)
  
  twin-barrel super light 40mm AGL +
  0.5 HMG+
  GPMG (minigun too overkill IMO)
  
  + extra ECM, CMS, Up-armour
  
  Five man bird of DOOM...muahahaha....*dream* *dream*
  
  Someday man..*dream dream*
  

  our Herky birds' airframe will not sustain that kind of mod.
• CM06

  20 Mar 07, 21:52

  Originally posted by kotay:

  Dude! The CH-47SD can lift 27 tons ??!! Where did you get that from?

  I read from a supplier website haha...anyway here's the break down:
  
  The CH-47 D chopper has 3 external hooks. The central hook can carry 12,000kgs. While the other two can carry 7,500 kgs EACH.. total 27,000kgs = 27 tons. Tada. Dont forget this is external lift @ 260kph. Internally, it can carry an additional 2 Humvee OR 33 fully equipped troops.
  
  SGtyran:
  
  we dont have to use our current Hercs (but reinforce maybe can with some cuts to the armament) hehe...i'm looking at the spanking new ones that i hope we can get.
• kotay

  21 Mar 07, 00:40

  Originally posted by CM06:

  I read from a supplier website haha...anyway here's the break down:
  
  The CH-47 D chopper has 3 external hooks. The central hook can carry 12,000kgs. While the other two can carry 7,500 kgs EACH.. total 27,000kgs = 27 tons. Tada. Dont forget this is external lift @ 260kph. Internally, it can carry an additional 2 Humvee OR 33 fully equipped troops.
  
  SGtyran:
  
  we dont have to use our current Hercs (but reinforce maybe can with some cuts to the armament) hehe...i'm looking at the spanking new ones that i hope we can get.

  Errmmmmmm ... Dude .... the Super D has a listed empty weight of about 11.5 tons and a maximum takeoff weight of about 24.5 tons. Which makes the actual payload capability to be about 13 tons (incl. fuel) ...
  
  The cargo ratings you have are to be taken in the context of "AND/OR not exceeding 13 tons" not in a strict "AND" context.
• beavan

  21 Mar 07, 08:22

  and the RSAF wants to keep the birds new and unstressed. so they normally fly with at most half loads if i'm not wrong.
• CM06

  21 Mar 07, 17:02

  Originally posted by kotay:

  Errmmmmmm ... Dude .... the Super D has a listed empty weight of about 11.5 tons and a maximum takeoff weight of about 24.5 tons. Which makes the actual payload capability to be about 13 tons (incl. fuel) ...
  
  The cargo ratings you have are to be taken in the context of "AND/OR not exceeding 13 tons" not in a strict "AND" context.

  Sorry sorry you are right, i got that from army-technology website. I made a bad 1+1 = 3 conclusion . However the triple hook performance is as stated and is used to ferry 155mm howitzer + crew +ammo.
  
  Taking from the Boeing Website,
  
  the Ch-47D has a payload of 24,000 pounds or 10.8 tons
  
  the Ch-47F has a payload of 21,500 pounds or 9.75 tons.(it's a -d model + avionics/engine/blade upgrade)
  
  Apparently we have the -e/g OR hh-47 model..ii'm not sure..the website a bit weird
  
  Correct me if i'm wrong. Thanks.
• storm_freaky13

  22 Mar 07, 01:05

  Gattling/Miniguns for spookys wont be overkill. Considering the idea behind the spooky is to lay down massive amounts of firepower to keep the enemies heads down. GPMG will just overheat with its one barrel within a minute of continuous firing. Thats the reason for a minigun/gattling gun. Multiple barrels for sustained and prolonged firing. Also, at that altitude the cycling rate of the gattling will prove to be useful to the gunner for predicting the trajectory of the bullets. I think it will be nice to put an AGL while we are at it for our Herc.
  
  If we ever do it that is.
  
  *oops din see carefully that u already added the AGL in ur shopping list.* haha
• Shotgun

  22 Mar 07, 01:27

  Originally posted by sgf:

  Your AHM doesn't impress me. I was at Seletar East as a NSF and am still going there as a NSman. Each time I take the bus into camp & drop off outside the medical centre, I see lots of houses along the way. So don't tell me the houses are at West camp.
  
  If MLRS launch is targetted at say HQ ARMCEG or 35 SCE, are you 101% sure no stray missile is going to end up along Piccadilly, Old Birdcage Walk or Mornington Crescent? Will you be as sure if YOU and YOUR FAMILY lived there?

  Then the missile didn't hit seletar camp, but rather it hit Piccadily and Old Birdcage walk le. If you're talking about Seletar east camp, even if it hits the edges of it, all the way up until the new guard room, its not gonna "catastrophically" murder thousands of civilians in structures.
  
  Yes, I don't live there, hence I don't really care. =)
  
  What you said was,
  
  

  There are lots of army camps located near to residential areas. Seletar & Nee Soon are 2 of the many. Aim the MLRS at such camps & you wipe out the camps AND the flats there.

  I havent' seen a HDB estate at seletar east camp. And that was what I was getting at.
  
  I'm still trying to count the number of camps located near "residential" areas that is considered "lots." Still can count with 1 hand leh... Maybe u shud provide a list.
  
  In anycase, Singapore is one huge residential area. Thus, maybe every camp should be considered near residential areas?