RMAF's Sukhois to arrive in May — one year late
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Nice looking plane though I prefer the F-18 super-bugs or F-15s if you`re talking about planes from the same generation. But thank god Singapore did not buy it for the NGF programme. Same with every other country who can afford a good Western jet with all the frills that come with them.
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I thought NGF and A4 replacement were 2 different projects?
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Russia to deliver 12 Su-30 fighters to Malaysia in 2008
MOSCOW, February 13 (RIA Novosti) - Russia will deliver 12 Su-MKM fighters to Malaysia before the end of 2008, a spokesman for the Sukhoi aircraft manufacturer said on Wednesday.
The Southeast Asian country will receive a total of 18 Su-30MKM fighters under a $900-million contract signed in 2003. The first six airplanes were delivered in 2007.
The Su-30MKM is a multi-role Flanker version based on the Su-30MKI model and features a customized avionics package built to Malaysian specifications.
The airplanes are being manufactured at Sukhoi's Irkutsk aircraft manufacturing plant in Siberia.
Malaysia currently operates a mixed fighter fleet with the Russian MiG-29N Fulcrum and the U.S.-made F/A-18D Hornet and F-5 Tiger in service.
According to some sources, the Malaysian Royal Air Force is considering a new Su-30MKM contract. -
walao... the flight routine is so darn boring... i have to put toothpicks to keep my eyelids from closing...
cant they do something more fantastic?? even our retired A-4 did better manouvers 10 years ago during AA.
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Originally posted by tripwire:
walao... the flight routine is so darn boring... i have to put toothpicks to keep my eyelids from closing...
cant they do something more fantastic?? even our retired A-4 did better manouvers 10 years ago during AA.
mmm how the super scooter going to do the cobra without stalling? -
1st time you see the cobra.... you go WOOOOOOLAAAAAAA
2nd time you see the cobra... you go.... Niiiiiiiiiccceeeeeeee
3rd time you see the cobra... you go... Uhmmmm........ok.
4th time you see the cobra... you go.... *raise eyelid*
5th time you see the cobra... you go.... *yawn*
6th time onwards.... you wont even bother to raise your head.....
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Why would the super scooter wanna execute the "sitting duck" manuever?
That was a real yawner Su-30 flight. I guess after a while, I'm expecting them to crash or smth as a grand finale.
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well i have done it in ace combat.....sweeeet the dude i fought, fly past me like a blind bull....and growl here come my side winder up his arse......but thats a game. LOL
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Sitting duck maneuvers like that work on 2 occasions.
1. A Hollywood Movie Called TOPGUN. ("I'll pop the breaks and he'll fly right by")
2. Flight SIMs with bad AI. (Typical AI programming in BFM will see them trying to avoid a mid-air collision and pulling away. In Ace Combat's case, its unrealistic flight engine allows the player's jet to freely point their nose despite flying at high alpha and stalling speeds.
Its not that aircraft on the defense don't try to force an overshoot, but they don't flying straight level and slamming the breaks. A good pilots would simply be presented a LARGE sitting target. No, Cobra's reserved for airshow.
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Originally posted by Shotgun:
Sitting duck maneuvers like that work on 2 occasions.
1. A Hollywood Movie Called TOPGUN. ("I'll pop the breaks and he'll fly right by")
2. Flight SIMs with bad AI. (Typical AI programming in BFM will see them trying to avoid a mid-air collision and pulling away. In Ace Combat's case, its unrealistic flight engine allows the player's jet to freely point their nose despite flying at high alpha and stalling speeds.
Its not that aircraft on the defense don't try to force an overshoot, but they don't flying straight level and slamming the breaks. A good pilots would simply be presented a LARGE sitting target. No, Cobra's reserved for airshow.
lol you are almost right.....so high G and im not even fainted...lol.
The cobra were probably for an airshow but the russian claimed there were other move other than cobra...the american said so too.
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Its not about the manuevers, seriously.
Its about retaining the energy to point your nose where it needs to be in order to launch weapons. Thats what the demonstrations are about.
At BVR, thats not gonna be worth a lot they'll be flying about at tactical speeds where thrust vectoring and high alphas doesn't contribute to manuevering. Neither thrust vectoring, high AOA capability nor airshow manuevers are gonna save these flankers from getting swatted by an AMRAAM. In this case, 2, just to be sure.
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so what happen when both side have spent their bvr missile? RTB? of course not...you have to come close and eyeball the enemy and fight it...thats mean dogfight.
they have bvr too you know...or maybe we have to assume our F15 can defeat their Amramski everytime and anytime?
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It's more like...erm raw numbers and how many missiles you can actually let go (lock and fire) before you have to take evasive manuevour? The one who shoot first and if the missile hits it's an advantage.
12planes v 12planes say 4 bvr each
48 v 48 (each fires one)
36 vs 36( one side down 2 one side down 3)
30 vs 27(advantage here)
each unleash one again (10 missiles vs 9 missiles)
20 vs 18 (19 missiles likely more kills than 9 missiles)
So training and coordination will allow one side to actually hit more and the advantage usually will continue until the other side retreats.
Just guessing here. I'm a land lubber not stick jockey.
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so what happen when both side have spent their bvr missile? RTB? of course not...you have to come close and eyeball the enemy and fight it...thats mean dogfight.
they have bvr too you know...or maybe we have to assume our F15 can defeat their Amramski everytime and anytime?
You having too much childish thoughts lar you. what..combat jets are going to stop like 19th century riflemen and both sides fire thier bvr missiles and wait? And when no more missiles charge for hand to hand combat is it or in this case wvr duel? :) What are strategy, tactics, numbers, jamming systems on board combat planes and detection/jamming systems like AEWs planes, UAVs, etc for? What is the integration of all these systems for? Why integrate Formidable class Aster 15s/30s, I-hawks, etc into a network? Hello, this is`nt the 20th century anymore. You are fighting systems. An enemy plane does not have to jammed and destroyed by other enemy planes. They can be knocked out by missiles from a ship for instance or mobile SAM systems.
In Yogoslavia and Iraq, air-force officials did not even bother to fly thier planes most of the time and chose to hide them.
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OH YEAH MAN! I'm so gonna buster in an engage those SOBs in BFM with GUNS ONLY while getting shot at by enemy air defense and supporting elements! All that to join the ejection seat club and land in enemy territory for some R&R time. Bring out the Beers!
RTB is for WIMPS and people who wish to LIVE.
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Originally posted by Skye2:
You having too much childish thoughts lar you. what..combat jets are going to stop like 19th century riflemen and both sides fire thier bvr missiles and wait? And when no more missiles charge for hand to hand combat is it or in this case wvr duel? :) What are strategy, tactics, numbers, jamming systems on board combat planes and detection/jamming systems like AEWs planes, UAVs, etc for? What is the integration of all these systems for? Why integrate Formidable class Aster 15s/30s, I-hawks, etc into a network? Hello, this is`nt the 20th century anymore. You are fighting systems. An enemy plane does not have to jammed and destroyed by other enemy planes. They can be knocked out by missiles from a ship for instance or mobile SAM systems.
In Yogoslavia and Iraq, air-force officials did not even bother to fly thier planes most of the time and chose to hide them.
you are right dude, i just didnt elaborate it that detail.... if both side have have what you have writen, the battle will be quite hectic or in military terms 'clusterfu*k'. In fact air war always about system, but aircraft still pitted against each other even in 21st century warfare. Eitherwise why the american goes to great lenght making the F22 super menuverable? if all air war were BVR might as well create a big belly f22 so that it can spit out more Amraam? -
you are right dude, i just didnt elaborate it that detail.... if both side have have what you have writen, the battle will be quite hectic or in military terms 'clusterfu*k'. In fact air war always about system, but aircraft still pitted against each other even in 21st century warfare. Eitherwise why the american goes to great lenght making the F22 super menuverable? if all air war were BVR might as well create a big belly f22 so that it can spit out more Amraam?
It has always been about systems. Just got more complicated and sophisticated. Dumbo...F-22 carries 6 Amraams and 2 sidewinders. 6 bvr missiles and 2 wvr missiles.Tells u a lot about where the battle will be. (By the way, f-35 can carry 6 AAMs internally
. Eat sheet invaders!! ) The reason why it is fast and maneuverable is that it is made to face hordes of russian fighters; just in case it has to get into a fight to get out.And just before you say, other western jets cannot make it in terms of wvr, understand that it`s about using their respective aircrafts, combat systems and tactical advantages best. They are all as good as the pilots, systems, systems inside planes, plane characteristics and tactics they use to maximise a win.
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Typhoon promo video. See how the typhoon kick the sheet out of the sukhoi. See how the wvr missile fly into the face of the sukhoi when the sukhoi was at the tail of the typhoon. What tactic and system is that? New western planes and missiles have that. Still want to get behind a western plane`s backside? Please lar. A lot of factors are involved. Know your plane and know what its advantages and weakneses are. And use the force multipliers which would be of tremendous advantage to you.
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Originally posted by tankfanatic:
you are right dude, i just didnt elaborate it that detail.... if both side have have what you have writen, the battle will be quite hectic or in military terms 'clusterfu*k'. In fact air war always about system, but aircraft still pitted against each other even in 21st century warfare. Eitherwise why the american goes to great lenght making the F22 super menuverable? if all air war were BVR might as well create a big belly f22 so that it can spit out more Amraam?
Dude, u are seriously missing the point about the F-22. Its primary feature is Stealth, not supermanueverability. Its stealthy designs, LPI radar, and super computers are meant to help it achieve one purpose. To SEE and SHOOT flankers or any other aerial adversary before they even realise the F-22 is out there.Its super manueverability is a supporting feature to help it achieve its role of Air Dominance when closing with the enemy, which in the first place, should not happen. But because its an Air Dominance fighter, contingencies are always considered so that it can always come out on top.
Skye2, I haven't updated myself on the F-35, but last I checked, it has only internal A2A carriage space for 2 AMRAAMs. Other 4 will have to be carried externally. The main internal carraige is reserved for A2G ordinance. In other words, when stealth is required, the F-35 will only have 2 AMRAAMs loaded.
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The F-35 is a pesky stealth air to air/multi-role fighter that will cause a lot of problems to any air forces which dont have equally capable combat jets. It has also been reported that Israel is building internal racks so the F-35s can carry all manner of munitions and not just American ones. ------------------------------------------------------ Six-Shooting Lightning The Joint Strike Fighter could be upgraded to carry up to six internal AIM-120 AMRAAM Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles, according to a Lockheed Martin executive. "Our spiral development program includes the ability to carry up to six internal AMRAAMs", G. Richard Cathers, senior manager of Lockheed Martin's strategic studies group, told the IQPC Fighter Conference in London on Wednesday. "It's a capability second only to the F-22." Cathers added that the JSF's air-combat capability "has not been advertised as it could or should have been", partly because "at the same time as we are developing the F-35, we and the USAF have wanted to expand the F-22 program." Apparently, the USAF has not wanted to advertise the JSF's air-to-air capability, concerned that it would weaken the case for acquiring more than the 183 F-22s authorized today. The four added internal AMRAAMs would be carried in place of internal bombs. It's not clear, however, whether the short-take-off, vertical landing F-35B variant, which has smaller weapon bays, would be able to carry the added weapons. An executive for a competing fighter program, speaking at the conference, said that the six-missile capability would be a major improvement for the JSF. Until now, competitors have criticised the JSF because it carries only two AAMs - supporting only a single engagement - in stealth mode. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/defense/index.jsp?plckController=Blog&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&plckPostId=Blog%3a27ec4a53-dcc8-42d0-bd3a-01329aef79a7Post%3a4f04259d-8fca-4e42-8e17-44f5dca7edf4
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Originally posted by Skye2:
The F-35 is a pesky stealth air to air/multi-role fighter that will cause a lot of problems to any air forces which dont have equally capable combat jets. It has also been reported that Israel is building internal racks so the F-35s can carry all manner of munitions and not just American ones.
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Six-Shooting LightningThe Joint Strike Fighter could be upgraded to carry up to six internal AIM-120 AMRAAM Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles, according to a Lockheed Martin executive. “Our spiral development program includes the ability to carry up to six internal AMRAAMs”, G. Richard Cathers, senior manager of Lockheed Martin’s strategic studies group, told the IQPC Fighter Conference in London on Wednesday. “It’s a capability second only to the F-22.”
Cathers added that the JSF’s air-combat capability “has not been advertised as it could or should have been”, partly because “at the same time as we are developing the F-35, we and the USAF have wanted to expand the F-22 program.” Apparently, the USAF has not wanted to advertise the JSF’s air-to-air capability, concerned that it would weaken the case for acquiring more than the 183 F-22s authorized today.
The four added internal AMRAAMs would be carried in place of internal bombs. It’s not clear, however, whether the short-take-off, vertical landing F-35B variant, which has smaller weapon bays, would be able to carry the added weapons.
An executive for a competing fighter program, speaking at the conference, said that the six-missile capability would be a major improvement for the JSF. Until now, competitors have criticised the JSF because it carries only two AAMs – supporting only a single engagement – in stealth mode.
Very interesting and another feat of engineering.
Trying to put AMRAAMs into the internal bomb bay would require some kinda adhoc Rolling Amraam ejector mechanism. Remove ejector when armed with A2G weapons and replace with JDAM ejectors. I wonder if that would blow the weight budget again..