What happen to the XM8 rifle?
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM8
Although there were high hopes that the XM8 would become the Army's new standard infantry rifle, the project was put on hold in mid 2005, and was formally cancelled on October 31, 2005.
It's that it for the XM8? I thought it's an awesome weapon and it's lighter than the M16 / M4.
Caliber: 5.56x45 mm NATO
Action: Gas operated, rotating bolt
Overall length: 838 mm in basic configuration, butt extended
Barrel length: 318 mm in basic configuration; also 229 mm in Compact and 508 mm in Sharpshooter and SAW versions
Weight: 2.659 kg empty in basic configuration
Rate of fire: ~ 750 rounds per minute
Magazine capacity: 30 rounds (STANAG) or 100-rounds double drum in Automatic Rifle/SAW role -
Politics. The gun is German and the American Gun manufacturers weren't very happy. So politics had the entire process turned into open bidding. That said, the big American gun manufacturers actually suck big time. M16 wasn't even designed by them but by a smaller company that has since diminished since they idiotically sold the design for the AR-15 to Colt who now holds the patents. Quite a lot of the guns used by the American military are foreign, like the Minimi and I think at one point of time they used the FN MAG which we also use as their own GPMG was riddled with problems which I think persist to some extent today.
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ya very true, when we exercise with the marines, they really love the ultimax 100.
He wish they can have such a weapon in their arsenal, so that they can carry more ammo .. -
Have any Singaporeans tested the XM8 rifle before? Or was only tested by the Americans?
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XM8 was never implemented...what odds do you think there are spares to be tested by our "spec ops" At most i say we got a peek or two in the rifle's statistics/engineering specs/materials so that we can *cough* copy, i mean improve to make SAR 21 lighter.
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But why only the Ultimax 100? I thought many weapons these days can carry 100 drum mags such as the HK MG36.Originally posted by justcooler:ya very true, when we exercise with the marines, they really love the ultimax 100.
He wish they can have such a weapon in their arsenal, so that they can carry more ammo .. -
Brief intro on me:
I hope I not asking too many stupid questions. So SORRY if I did. I've never been to the military but I wished I was. In my national service, I was put into Civil Defence, just after 9-11. I'm always fascinated with guns and their mechanics (not that I like to kill people...haha). I hope I can be trained in firearms one day. -
Oh, I heard HK is still producing them so I thought by any CHANCE some of our lucky soldiers got to test them. Haha...just wishful thinking on my part.Originally posted by CM06:XM8 was never implemented...what odds do you think there are spares to be tested by our "spec ops" At most i say we got a peek or two in the rifle's statistics/engineering specs/materials so that we can *cough* copy, i mean improve to make SAR 21 lighter.
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I thought i heard that they were going to adopt it to replace the M4s.
*shrugs* -
The weight, accuracy and performance under adverse conditions put Ultimax 100 top of the chart...Originally posted by Chuichi Koshiramaru:But why only the Ultimax 100? I thought many weapons these days can carry 100 drum mags such as the HK MG36. -
The XM-8 was shelved quite some time ago. Current standard assault rifle for US Army is the M-16A4.
I love the way the XM-8 looks. Yes, I'd take it over a SAR-21 anyday. =D -
Yeah, so sad that it has to be shelved. Feedback from the US soldiers were good.
But the US Govt have to make it bad.
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Scrapped....
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Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:
The AR15/M16 was designed by an American, Eugene Morrison Stoner born in Gosport, Indiana USA.
Politics. The gun is German and the American Gun manufacturers weren't very happy. So politics had the entire process turned into open bidding. That said, the big American gun manufacturers actually suck big time. M16 wasn't even designed by them but by a smaller company that has since diminished since they idiotically sold the design for the AR-15 to Colt who now holds the patents. Quite a lot of the guns used by the American military are foreign, like the Minimi and I think at one point of time they used the FN MAG which we also use as their own GPMG was riddled with problems which I think persist to some extent today.
The company which he worked for when he designed the AR15 is ArmaLite, and ArmaLite is still around making weapons such as the AR18 and the AR10 (Which the US Military is fielding).
http://www.armalite.com/
ArmaLite didn't do too good a job at marketing the AR15 it was only after they sold the design to Colt did it become a success that it is now. It was up to a Colt salesman and a 4 of July watermelon shoot and USAF General Curtis LeMay.
As for why the XM8 was cancelled I would say that it is because of the 20 million of US tax payers money was used to develop it from an already fielded design. Which offers little or no advantage over the currently issued M16. The XM8 was an off shoot of the just as dead OICW program.
It weighs just as much as the M16, the M16 is just as modular, shoots the same round as the M16 just from a shorter barrel which brings us to another point, there have been complains about the 5.56mm lack of "stopping power" and yet the standard barrel length for the XM8 is going to be 12.5" vs the M16's 20" or the M4's 14.5". And I have a hard time believing that HK's octagonal rifling will offset the effect of the shorter barrel.
The XM8 is based off the G36 which is in turn based of ArmaLite's AR18.
What I don't get is the Heckler and Koch devotees who believe in their heart of hearts that if it comes from Oberndorf, it automatically represents the zenith of modern small arms development. Never mind that HK has produced one commercially successful weapon, the MP5. The G3 was a moderate success, but it certainly wasn't as successful as it's contemporary competition, the FN FAL.
Side note the folks from ArmaLite that brought you the M16/AR15, the AR10, the AR18 also brought you the Ultimax 100, Jim Sullivan. -
Originally posted by Raptor937:
Very well written post!
The XM8 is based off the G36 which is in turn based of ArmaLite's AR18.
What I don't get is the Heckler and Koch devotees who believe in their heart of hearts that if it comes from Oberndorf, it automatically represents the zenith of modern small arms development. Never mind that HK has produced [b]one commercially successful weapon, the MP5. The G3 was a moderate success, but it certainly wasn't as successful as it's contemporary competition, the FN FAL.
Side note the folks from ArmaLite that brought you the M16/AR15, the AR10, the AR18 also brought you the Ultimax 100, Jim Sullivan.[/b]
Regarding Armalite... a classic case of creative people being careless when it comes to real business. -
The designer left the sinking ship after he was disgusted with the management stupidity and also with the procurement process which was anything but impartial. Basically, they waded right into a turf war between depts in the military and there were conflicts of interest. Colt on the other hand had more clout than Armalite being a very old arms company.Originally posted by moca:Very well written post!
Regarding Armalite... a classic case of creative people being careless when it comes to real business. -
Yeah, man... Colt was basically there from the Wild Wild West period onwards. However, their most famous creations had always been pistols, if I'm not wrong.Originally posted by Fingolfin_Noldor:Colt on the other hand had more clout than Armalite being a very old arms company.
They strike me as a company that has COMPLETETLY NO IMAGINATION.
Following is a list of firearms they come up with for the different roles like SAW, SMG AR. For some reasons, they are ALL M-16 based. Completely out of ideas.
The brilliant Sullivan from Armalite, for example, came up with the Ultimax-100 for a SAW while Colt - optimistically - fielded a modified M-16!
SAW
SMG
AR
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Most of the real innovations in small arms took place beyond America though you had the M16 which was a very good gun but well politics had seen destroyed any form of innovation. Americans might piss on foreign guns, but damn hell are foreign guns for the most part superior to American ones.
Ironically, the Stoner fella was responsible for a number of guns, like the Bushmaster 25mm cannon. He has since passed on though, and I wonder who would likely equal his abilities. The guy was pretty brilliant and was responsible for lots of guns... which were also adopted by the US army eventually. -
I just heard a joke on the XM8: "Use G36 instead!"
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Is THAT even a joke?Originally posted by Chuichi Koshiramaru:I just heard a joke on the XM8: "Use G36 instead!" -
my unit uses AR15,M16s... I find that AR15 is kinda like M16 but more lighter...
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The M16 is good.
The Ultimax is good but can be better.
The G36 is better than M16. -
At the end of the day I'll take any gun that does not jam on me and kills the target real dead with bullets that more or less go where you want them to. Bonus if it allows you to do these things better... how effective the weapon is highly dependent on how well you know it, and what for what you chose to use it for as well.
The rest of the stuff about brands and companies are elective. -
Maybe it's more like cliche these days. When someone is talking or complaining about any assualt rifle, someone tell them, "Use a G36 instead!"Originally posted by wonderamazement:Is THAT even a joke?
So the G36 must be the overall best assault rifle today.
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I wonder if it was locally made we would suddenly find a whole list of faults with it.Originally posted by Chuichi Koshiramaru:Maybe it's more like cliche these days. When someone is talking or complaining about any assualt rifle, someone tell them, "Use a G36 instead!"
So the G36 must be the overall best assault rifle today.
Reputation aside, what exactly does one mean by a "good" weapon? It's one that's reliable, accurate and capable of putting down your target. Some people seem to have some kind of fetish for brand names and splitting hairs over features but I'm not to sure about that. The Germans certainly do make their stuff to a high standard, no doubt, but winning a fight goes beyond just your weapons.
I mean just about every country would like to boast their weapon is the best in this and that, but at the end of the day one wonders if the fact your weapon is expensive means if you know how to fight. Certainly it would be cool if your weapon allows you to do your job more efficently, but the rest is often splitting hairs.