Terrex - watsup?
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Oops, caught your post too late.Originally posted by moca:Back to the Terrex, please...
There are some SAR-21 threads including one I started examining why the SAR-21 has not yet secured an overseas order called: "What's wrong with the SAR-21.
But yeah, please redirect anymore SAR-21 talk to the said thread. -
Yes, appreciate that.
Some interesting points about the SAR-21are put forth, and it is a shame they are not added to the correct thread. -
Noted... any more new stuff on the SAR from me will be in the correct thread.
Unfortunately I wonder if another party will do the same. -
... glock,
H&K withdrew their license after Mexico started local - producing licensed G36.
It was some general's idea to continue with it after the license was withdrawn by putting it under another name.
Just because people copy doesnt mean it's great...it could be just that it's cheaper than anything else available in the market.
They cant copy the SAR21 obviously cause they dont have to the mould/blueprint whatever you call that.
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Full body armour will not be issued to everyone though i'm sure this kind will be issued to certain forces(trained and fit enough). However, i believe the standard vest (top only) will be given to the rest.
Say again tekong robber case. One active SAR coy ns-boys deployed with BA ah...you see that one ...not police stock..
Checked a website (EngardeUK)
Lvl IIIA - .44(lead semi wadcutter) and 9mm (FMJ) PROOF weighs about 5.1 pounds (2+ kg?)
LVL III - anti 5.56/7.62mm armour is about 18 pounds (8-9kg). (10" + 12") kevlar plates (hence my estimation of 10-12kg is over the top)
You want to wear or not? Heh. Infantry shiong lor. But you wont want to do without it right? (Heng i AI at least can sit haha.
Edit, not lvl IV, Lvl III is anti AR round. -
Hi Tyra the “Grunt “ ,
I take it as the ultimate compliment that you are stealing my line on the Mexicans copying the G36. Imitation is the best form of flattery – glad that you love my humor. Humor isn’t my only good trait.
I guess in the army , you can create a smoke screen with a smoke grenade. Throwing a smokescreen by introducing unrelated nonsense and putting words in peoples mouths does a great disservice to yourself. I guess barking orders and shoving one's opinions down peoples' throats is still the army way of doing things – rank has its advantages in these situations.
Why do you need to show how well read you are ? Totally unnecessary if you are confident in yourself. -
Full body armour will not be issued to everyone though i'm sure this kind will be issued to certain forces(trained and fit enough). However, i believe the standard vest (top only) will be given to the rest.
AFAIK, it is the SAF's intention to eventually equip every grunt with body armour. BA is part of the 3G ACM system loadout.
Say again tekong robber case. One active SAR coy ns-boys deployed with BA ah...you see that one ...not police stock..
The current standard-issue level III vests come in at about 8 kilos, which is comparable to the US interceptor vests with SAPI. Dragon Skin and the like is probably lighter but it seems they have some trouble passing their MILSPEC, and hence there has been a lot of talk lately on that with the yanks.
I've had the rare chance to try FIBUA with level 4 armour before (7.62 AP resistant)... and it really makes you feel safe. It is still entirely possible to do your combat drills with it so the level 3 vest, in which I've seen grunts doing fast roping with FBO, section weapons, with it (level 3) on before so the weight is not really an issue when it comes to combat effectiveness.
Not that we should be surprised... virtually every other army with BA as part of the loadout does it all of the time.
Of course, the LAPD SWAT actually employs something they deem as level 9 armour (which can stop shotgun slugs), which is as close to Robocop that you can get. Saw a feature on their level 9 loadout... very cool.
Note that the NIJ standards only run up level 4 in the civvie table. So there are apparently many other protection levels that are not openly talked about.
For body armour, there's some which you keep in storage and don it before going into mission, like SWAT or police applications... however vests for military use involve having to use the vest under extreme conditions, such as prolonged wear and exposure to heat and moisture, which might rapidly degrade the protective ability of some vests which use materials sensitive to such effects. -
I regret to inform you that humor is but the only virtue of your posts.
I guess in the army , you can create a smoke screen with a smoke grenade. Throwing a smokescreen by introducing unrelated nonsense and putting words in peoples mouths does a great disservice to yourself. I guess barking orders and shoving one's opinions down peoples' throats is still the army way of doing things – rank has its advantages in these situations.
LOL, I'll let others be the judge of my actions, and by far I wonder where has all the brickbats from outside parties gone to? Hmmm... I think I'll save you the shame by declining to quote some of the judgement passed on you by numerous people other then me.
Indeed, if you are unable to tangle, do yourself a service and disengage. I am afraid your latest barbs are more reactionary then revolutionary. Nice try though, but you still need a new approach... your's just isn't working.
If there is any disservice I am doing to myself, it seems to be the on the issue of why we choose to entertain a person such as yourself who has shown himself to be competely devoid of any virtue we deem worthy, and any vice that we admire?
But having done the cost-benefit studies, we have determined that such a con is still worth keeping you around as a source of entertainment.Why do you need to show how well read you are ? Totally unnecessary if you are confident in yourself.
I do not need to, you not the one who is alway forcing our hand with your poorly-informed posts remember? -
So i was correct about the lvl III BA. hehe..lucky i did some homework..
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A small number of Terrex APCs can be easily acquired for our men in blue helmets to transit in reative comfort across human settlements inhabited with kids with attitude and plenty of stones laying around.
And when sensibly configured, a Terrex in baby whites is far less able to invoke the strong feelings of achievement and worthiness from destroying by men with attitude and plenty of weapons laying around.
Capisch?
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Hmm, but men with lots of weapons, no clear enemy and mission still seem perfectly happy to vent their random fury on Blackwater operatives in SUVs and still get a lot of gratification from that.
All that aside, I think it's quite obvious there are plenty of roles for the wheeled AFV in the SAF, the Terrex isn't exactly a unit that we need to rewrite the books or figure what to do with... they are more a replacement for our current stock of wheeled AFVs... but with more capabilities of course.
Note that the AFV is still very new, but it is my feeling that it is more or less inevitible that the SAF is going to snap it up once it decides to finally replace it's older stock of wheeled AFVs. -
LIke I mentioned before, my PDF unit was being trialed on V-200 just as I was leaving for overseas 11 years ago. I wonder what became of that?
For FIBUA the wheeled AFV is definitely good for getting there faster and then being nimble enough in the BUA. -
V-200? I think we're still going to hang onto them for some time, given ST just gave them an upgrade quite recently.
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What upgrade, a new set of tyres?Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:V-200? I think we're still going to hang onto them for some time, given ST just gave them an upgrade quite recently.
Those things have high COG making them easy target and also highly unstable. Not to mention thin armour. Death traps if you ask me. -
Our fears are unfounded. A quick browse through google indicates that our astute government only sends the boys out on missions in very very low intensity areas in which there are alaways some other nation down there with heavier and more attractive equipment.
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Who knows? Probably the usual ST happy meal to pre-existing systems.Originally posted by moca:What upgrade, a new set of tyres?
Those things have high COG making them easy target and also highly unstable. Not to mention thin armour. Death traps if you ask me.
No joke about the high-COG and stuff like that. It is obvious that the V200 series are quite out of date for heavy operations, not to mention it is somewhat out of the weight range of the Terrex... however it would still be rather useful in other low-intensity roles that do not require the armour or tonnage of the Terrex. -
The V200 was given a new engine, transmission and all4 wheel brakes were change to disc brakes. Tyres were changed to ballasitc tyres. The transmission is the Allision Transmission Auto G/box.Originally posted by moca:What upgrade, a new set of tyres?
Those things have high COG making them easy target and also highly unstable. Not to mention thin armour. Death traps if you ask me. -
People are defending the Terrex because it is one of the best of its class !Originally posted by glock:Why are people still defending the Terrex ? After all it was designed in Ireland. Maybe it is really cheaper to develop a wheeled battle taxi somewhere else.
You have something again Ireland ? It was design by someone who understand the true need of a very good wheeled armour vehicle.
The only sad things like the ultimax 100 it came out at the wrong time.
Terrex strong point it is design for landmines, which shape protect the soldiers inside. And reduce the damage to the vehicle. Also much better then most in armour.
Also it is very modular thus very easily to reconfigure to a lot of variances. Which others cannot.
As it is wheeled , it is more manvourable and faster in speed.
These design make it a very versitile vehicle which play a lot of roles. One of these are convoy escort , which other cheap taxi is too poorly equip to handle ... which also track vehicles are not suitable for.
Terrex another plus point is its availability - it is wheeled is easier to repair if damage & maintenance.
Glock, if you say it is cheaper to develop wheeled battle taxi somewhere else ! I got a better suggestion - why not forget about that !!! Since cheap is the goal - just call Comfort - their taxi cheaper - althought even less armour but super cheap and lots of them some more, already got gps and satillite tracking and communciation system install in already !!! If trip too long - some got tv and troops inside can karaoke ! -
They will be usefull in base security roles
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Yes very useful !!! because of their speed, low noise, cost of operation (less fuel), availability and wheels do not damage roads like tracks.Originally posted by spartan6:They will be usefull in base security roles
Imagine patrolling a airbase with a track vehicle - the amount of fuel you use compare to a wheel vehicle. The noise of the track will be heard for miles haha no need to patrol , all intruders take cover. Also the track will damage the roads and runway - yes you can put rubber pads for tracks, but they will fall off -which will inclurred more down time and maintenace and affect availabilities. Also they are very manuable thus very hard to hit them as terrex will be a fast moving target.
For convoy is very good also, because its speed let it run up and down the convoy, also let it response fast to any threats. Also use less fuel then tracked vehicles, but still have good enough armour and a wide range of weapons able to be fix on. As problem shown in iraq, the main problem is landmines. Terrex main adv is that if it got hit, it will be damage, but the soldiers will most likely be ok. As its design is to channel the blast away, also it is wheeled, thus repair of it is much easier and less costly. -
Also add on 2 "clip on" SA-18 at the same time
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I believe in sgf most of the members are rifleman or have given training in infantry fighting,i belong the the latter group... I have use M16S1,did not use SAR21 but have touch here abit ,touch there abit and SAF carbine... I personally find that SAR21 is indeed a very mighty fine rifle to use,the scope is damn good and M16S1 is also fine to use... Nw the extra 1/2 kg of weight,let me ask glock that how much did a field pack weight??? I remember is coming close to 20kgs... And the extra weight of like 1/2kg,is too much for glock??? From what i know a matordor is a fire and forget weapon,u throw away after use... The rifleman might kpkb about the whole overall weight,but end of the day,they get the job done and they forget about the whole weight issue... And we acquire the german Leos,how old is the current tank M1(correct me if i'm wrong),it been damn mighty long,it been around since my father's time... The tanks might been upgrade a few times but when the times come to change,we jump at the chance to change it... Are we going to buy the bradleys from uncle sam,or buy the new kimchi-land tank??? SAF might have is reasons when they acquire the the 2nd-hand Leos... And who care whether the Terrex is not a local design,as long DSTA can change it to suit SAF's needs,can get the job done... End of story....Originally posted by glock:I see consensus regarding the weight of the standard issue SAR 21 compared to other modern assault rifles & it took probably more than two dozen posts to set the record straight. What is clear is that many chose not to admit the obvious.
Again, if members do read my posts , I never said that the standard issue SAR 21 was a bad rifle. I repeat for the umpteen time that it is an improvement over the M16 though STK cud do something more to lighten the SAR 21 for the SAF infantryman who is truly overburdened – reading glasses are in order here for some.
Yes , an unnecessary extra 1/2 kg to lug around for a rifle is a big deal ! When you start to add a heavier Matador ( compared to an Armbrust ) plus a host of new systems to the SAF soldierÂ’s load , the SAF soldier is really overburdened. Members who do not wish to highlight issues which can help the SAF infantryman do not have their interests at heart.
Whoever suggested that the SAF soldier is stupid has not served in the SAF.
The question about barrel lengths was not a trick question & the need for a 20 in barrel to achieve higher velocities need not be defended to death – it is obvious that a longer barrel will give bullets higher velocities. Although the American experience in combat has shown that the shorter barrels in M16 variants do not have the same lethal terminal ballistics as 20 in barrels, this fact seems to have been lost with most rifle designers including the Israelis. Then I guess, we Singaporeans & Americans are smarter than the rest.
For some, the extra 2 inches of barrel IS critical & that’s why they go bananas – I am saying ( as others do ) it is not critical & shud be chopped……… and monkeys do enjoy chewing up bananas.
We can buy German Leopard 2s but cannot get a license to manufacture G36s ? I am sure we did not ask. I guess the Leopard 2s are capable of doing less harm than G 36s. Hope that we can in future buy spare parts for the Leos. I also hope that the Leos are not duds. And yes G36s are nice rifles, obviously.
However, it was not obvious to many that the Terrex is not a local design. The point made by some was that locally designed equipment to suit SAFÂ’s unique needs cud be cheaper and that in this case most of the money stays in Singapore. My point is that most likely not correct on both counts. Anyway , the Terrex ( as others pointed out ) is just another armored vehicle. The SAR 21 is also another rifle. So what right ? Right. -
Actually, just to help you get your facts right, the weight difference - if youwere referring to the M16 vs SAR-21 - is 1kg.Originally posted by gaoxingdcf:Nw the extra 1/2 kg of weight....End of story.... -
Oh man... I think I saw something related to Terrex development recently. Fricking cool sia! I shouldn't say too much about it, but, its gonna be one really digital vehicle.
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oh izit??? Thanks leh....Originally posted by moca:Actually, just to help you get your facts right, the weight difference - if youwere referring to the M16 vs SAR-21 - is 1kg. -
Did anybody mention the Terrex was designed to be modular? It can readily be converted into many special-purpose variants.
We really need to get our hands on some of these ASAP (if we haven't already).