Full auto or 3-round burst?
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Not having seen any combat, I have often wondered if full auto or 3-round bursts is the way to go for assault rifles of the 5.56mm calibre?
The US uses a full auto M4A1 but a 3-round burst M16A4.
M16A1: Full auto
M16A2: 3-round burst
M16A3: full auto (limited procurement by USN only)
M16A4: 3-round burst
M4: 3-round burst
M4A1: full auto. -
I've been wondering why such rifles need to have full-auto.
With their long barrels, they work better at mid-range firing, since the accuracy is better than an MG (usually). If you spray with a rifle, won't it be better to just use an MG, since it would be built for auto?
Also, a few shots can render the victime useless in combat, unlike in games, where you unload a whole clip and the enemy is still jumping around trying to poke you with a knife.
Burst would save ammo on rifles, since they were not meant to establish killzones or suppress the enemy, but to pick out targets.
All this I'm saying from common sense and some CS/SF playing.
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the M16A2 3 round burst unit is defeintly a bad design! it is done cheaply so the system is flaw in the 1st place ! 1st becasue of the cam system, the trigger system actually gives 3 settings of spring tension thus in semi mode you get 3 type of trigger tension .. thus your accuracy will suffer becasue of the differnt tension !
Also! the M16 3 rd burst system will not always reset to 3 RD... SO for example if you fire 2 rd in the burst ! your next burst will be 1 rd ! then the cam will reset and the nest wil have a 3 rd set. compare to a 3rd for MP5 ... iregardless you always get a 3 rd burst!
I think trigger control is easily achieve with training and you can do 2 rd or 3 rd with ease ! so! I think the 3rd is kind of useless!
DaveC -
Is the G36 similar to MP 5 with the 3 round burst feature ? So these HK weapons are better than the M16/4s with this feature ?
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I think full auto for an assault rifle is redundant. Lets take highly popular M16 for example.
First of all, the magazine only holds 30 rounds which is hardly sufficient for sustained automatic fire(M16's max rate of fire is even higher than that of the Ultimax!).
Secondly, there is little or no accuracy with the M16 going auto unlike Ultimax.
Therefore i think 3-round bursts will be more appropriate, especially for FIBUA. -
I think Full Auto should stay, because you can train the shooter to fire bursts when the weapon is set to "rock n roll" but you can never train the shooter to fire automatic with a burst weapon.
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HI Glock
Yes! the MP5 3 rd burst is defeintly much more superior to the M16A2 period! initially I had a M4 with the 3 rd burst on! and I hatered it! If you train well ebough !you can do a 2 or 3 rd burst easily with the full auto mode.
I think FA on an assualt weapon has its uses but not for use with everything.. even in CQB we go in semi! just so much more control! but I guess on a rear guard operation! the FA comes in handy!
The Canadian C7 and C8 which is their version of the M16 has the FA instead of the flawed 3 rd burst!
DAveC! -
Actually, come to think of it now, I have never fired the M16 on full auto with live rounds. It was always semi with live rounds.
Only full auto is with blanks, so it is hard to guage the recoil or controllability. -
The 3-round burst was implemented as an ammo saving feature... given the grunts in Vietnam loved to rock-and-roll.
But personally I think it's pretty redundant, it's more a matter of training. You could fire bursts perfectly on FA, and in semi the double tap or triple tap serves the same function as a burst mode, and you have more control over your individual rounds as well. FA for me. -
One thing to note, if you are shooting FA on full length rifle like M16A2 you get about 700 rpm on Full auto! but a unmodified M4 the FA is almost to 950 RPM! Usually for my M4 I put a heavy buffer to make the FA more controllable.
YEah! FA at 600 to 700 rpm you can walk the shots and do 2 rd or 3rd burst easily! and if you have to let go in a hurry and with support ... you could too!
FA for me!
DaveC -
both full auto & 3 round burst is here to stay.Originally posted by moca:Not having seen any combat, I have often wondered if full auto or 3-round bursts is the way to go for assault rifles of the 5.56mm calibre?
The US uses a full auto M4A1 but a 3-round burst M16A4.
M16A1: Full auto
M16A2: 3-round burst
M16A3: full auto (limited procurement by USN only)
M16A4: 3-round burst
M4: 3-round burst
M4A1: full auto.
Full auto burst are hard to control, and may not like movies hit the target.
Usually for better train soldiers it is better to issue them with full auto type for less well train soldiers will be 3 round burst.
Full auto is good, when you need it to give overwhelming fire to bring shock to the enemy. However as limited rounds, thus well train soldiers who know how to control their auto burst to what is need - to be able to balance the need to expand bullets for effect and the need to conserve ammo.
For less well train soldiers, as they are unable to contol their auto burst and less train when to use it - thus 3 round burst would be better as to help conserve their ammo. -
FA fr me tooo...
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YEah, FA for me
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Full-auto for me.
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3 round burst is nice to have around on a weapon, but not at the expense of FA.
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Full auto is the way to go
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For suppression of fire, me would choose a MG or Ultimax to do the job..
For flanking purpose, me would choose a 3-round burst... -
The M-16 is not a gun you can aim quickly and accurately from the hip when meeting targets just 10-15 m away.
For this type of targets, it is better to still raise to the normal shoulder position but you don't have to aim thru the small rear sight.
In this regard, I think the 3-round burst is more accurate and effective.
I have fired the M-16 in auto in the range and you'll be surprised all inaccurate it is as the barrel climbs and how fast it empties your ammo magazine. -
When you are firing on full auto, accuracy is not really your concern, but putting down a volume of supressive fire.
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just to comfrim... talking oni on assault rifles!!! watever sit you are in, you make sure every round count... 3 round burst on the A2 is good as it heavier.Originally posted by moca:Not having seen any combat, I have often wondered if full auto or 3-round bursts is the way to go for assault rifles of the 5.56mm calibre?
The US uses a full auto M4A1 but a 3-round burst M16A4.
M16A1: Full auto
M16A2: 3-round burst
M16A3: full auto (limited procurement by USN only)
M16A4: 3-round burst
M4: 3-round burst
M4A1: full auto.
when you (good skill pax) do a rapid fire of 3 round on S1 and all land on target... isn't it better than to do a burst of 3 round which may not get a single hit?
never agreed on full auto and 3 round burst just to empty the mag. you can't hit your enemy, get ready to be hit at. -
read from somewhere something like that...
assault rifles are always in semi mode in jungle combat. You always aim before you fire. The probabillity on hitting the enemy in jungle combat is very low. BUT, in an ambush (you kana ambush by enemies) you set to auto mode (be it 3 shot or full auto) immediately an open fire at the enemy while rushing for cover. You spray as many shots as you can at the enemy, for among all the other possible reactions in an ambush, this have highest chance survivability. -
newbie on ops and get ambush will empty all the mag in few sec. and best part is he may not be firing in the enemy direction. (trust me on this)
so as to say meet with an ambush and use full auto (without aim) is as good as waiting to get shot at.
cover, look for cover. counter aim fire. -
We are still drilled to reply to ambushes with semi fire... in fact auto isn't even taught nowadays...
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Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:When you are firing on full auto, accuracy is not really your concern, but putting down a volume of supressive fire.
supressive fire 
accuracy is not really your concern
supPressive ~ tending or serving to suppress, restrict
ie to say to pin down enemy movement. explain how accuracy is not a concern??? -
Alright...if the debate is on whether FA or 3 rounds burst is a good feature to have on the weapon, then I wonder why is it that SAWs are built to zap through ammo in a jiffy? They fire FA don't they? And SAw is often used to suppress, or perhaps can any SAW gunners share if they always hit what they fire at in FA?
In short, ideally, it would be to have the G36 and MP5 style of fire modes, Safe,Single,Burst and Auto. That way, you get everything you need.