SG may lose Thai training camp
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why few country like sgOriginally posted by moca:My concern is that we have managed the get the only country in SE Asia who actually like Singapore, to become yet another potentially hostile neighbour.
The Malaysians, Indonesians, though friendly, as potential enemies. Filipinos hate us. And now, even the Thais have turned against us.
Though I see this relationship easier to repair than those with the other three, it is still a bad sign.
Sure, we can keep saying that everybody else is wrong and we are right. Or that they are trying to bully us etc.
But sometimes, I do wonder.... In this case it looked like Thaksin really was in our pockets. Shameful.
Losing a training camp is nothing. But losing the trust of a strong, powerful ally is bad news.
u can see in this forum how sporean talk about other asean country
have there any respect?no
we can be close friend
but 1st, try to respect others
peace -
Don't be so naive lah.... Why would they give us back given they think SG ripped them off their Telco company.Originally posted by glock:Does this all mean we get our F16s back ?
Furthermore, the F-16 covered future lease payment as well as the time RSAF has already used. How on earth are they going to sort out this way. RSAF/SG will just have to consider that as write offs. -
Yep he is really revered as a god.Originally posted by NewAge:Is yr brain in yr butt? No one dare to upset the king in Thailand. He is almost revered as a god there. Just look at Thailand second last coup. When the King said that he doesn't support the general. All the general's underlining all left him and thus the coup ended.
The only winner in the ''Thaksin visit' to Singapore'' is Thaksin. Both Thailand government and Singapore government has nothing to gained whatsoever. Thaksin has outsmarted everyone again. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
Childish mentality coming out from such army bigwigs
[b]S'pore may lose army training site Thursday January 18, 2007,http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/18Jan2007_news02.php
2.PRC sure ask SG go to HAINAN Is.![/b]
No wonder the country's problems never end.
S'pore army can easily find more training bases elsewhere.
Thailand is not the only place available.
How would they like the idea if all Thai workers working
in S'pore are given marching order. -
I hope they are not given the marching order... it will handicap our economy in some way if this happened suddenly. Imagine some construction sites being forced to come to a standstill... anyway if we respond in kind, it will be tantamount to declaring a Cold War. I would rather we resolve this issue amicably.Originally posted by ninefold9:Childish mentality coming out from such army bigwigs
No wonder the country's problems never end.
S'pore army can easily find more training bases elsewhere.
Thailand is not the only place available.
How would they like the idea if all Thai workers working
in S'pore are given marching order. -
"Army chief Sonthi Boonyaratkalin is considering reviewing and possibly cancelling a contract ... if the city-state fails to cooperate on the issue of ousted prime minister..."
So, what are the Military rulers in Bangkok implying? That we are not 'cooperating' with them over sidelining Thaksin? or we should totally bar Thaksin from visiting?Hello?
WHY should we be drag into this Thai INTERNAL AFFAIRS?
WHY should we be cohoots with them over THEIR botched attempt to silence Thaksin?
We DID NOT invite Thaksin, he came to Singapore on his own initiative!
We DID NOT interview Thaksin, CNN did!
Thaksin DID NOT break any Singapore laws, why should we barred him?
Thaksin IS NOT wanted by Interpol, we have NO reason to bar him entering.
Thaksin is NO Terrorist, he is NOT on the watchlist here!
If the Military rulers have NO acknowledge of international protocol or any knowledged of how to rule the country, perhaps THEY should restrict themselves to their sphere where they (& any other solders alike) ARE SUPPOSED to do - protect the Thai border and ensuring the lives of Thais are safe from bombs!
Perhaps if Gen Sonthi & his men were to stay out of politics and concentrate their focus and energy towards the restive South, they may even keep the southern separatists in check!''Although Singapore is not our enemy, we are economic rivals. They could be informed of secrets in the army and in the economic sector.'"..
OH PLEASE! You are NOT the 1st nor the last ASEAN leader to say that! EVERYONE knows that each country is competing with each other and no one need to be reminded! Does he expect the Thai people to believe that the new airport is not to compete with Changi?
So naive!The Thaksin government also allowed Singapore to lease part of Wing 23 air base in Udon Thani for military flight training.
Btw, remember the F-16A/Bs that we gave the RTAF FOC? Perhaps they should dump them and put them to scrap now...perhaps we have some listening/tracking devices on them that we can listen to their 'military secrets' when they overfly Thailand!Thailand had never before resorted to such retaliation, which showed that Asean members were unable to settle disputes through dialogue...
I ALWAYS believe that the ASEAN org is CRAP! It can't even put its house in order and is toothless over another pariah ASEAN member.
Hmmm.....perhaps Gen Sonthi should cancel its alliance and terminate its yearly military exercise with the US and protest it over to The White House as CNN (being a US company) interviewed Thaksin! Btw, I believe Gen Sonthi can call Hugo Chavez or Fidel Castro or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or even Kim Jong-Il, I believe they will welcome him into their camp. -
Black Aces, I suggest you cool down. Personal sentiments aside, do you agree that Singapore could have avoided all this sh.it? As much as you can say Thaksin is innocent, someone else will disagree with you.
You are now feeling emotional over this issue, what makes you think the Thai junta (illegal or not, undemocratic or not) does not feel the same way? Face it. They are the government now... welcome to politics.
The winner, like I said, is ToXin. -
would you like to see more thai workers or bangla workers ? ...Originally posted by ninefold9:Childish mentality coming out from such army bigwigs
No wonder the country's problems never end.
S'pore army can easily find more training bases elsewhere.
Thailand is not the only place available.
How would they like the idea if all Thai workers working
in S'pore are given marching order.
at least I don't see thai workers going down to orchard road to play "grab ass" during festive seasons ...
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hah internal affairs and they drag us in......wtf man.....
Quite dumb really.Hopefully this blows over in a while.The Thais are really over reacting -
Oh... after lame excuses about your DPM and Thaksin meeting matter, now you say you can find new place for your F16 base right away? Then go ahead. Pack up and leave right now. Please. I don't feel safe to have your base in my country after all.
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Originally posted by SiamesePatriot:
We did not have a air base in Thailand. We are only using existing air bases there. The airbase is still owned by the RTAF.
Oh... after lame excuses about your DPM and Thaksin meeting matter, now you say you can find new place for your F16 base right away? Then go ahead. Pack up and leave right now. Please. I don't feel safe to have your base in my country after all.
I love the Thai people and Thailand but i need to speak up for my country when necessary.
This is clearly Thailand's internal affairs, we have no wish to interfere and get into unnecessary trouble. The Thai foreign ministry have been notified of this current visit by our Singapore ambassador to Thailand,a few days before it actually occur. Therefore why the critisism by the interim Thai PM needs some deeper thought. Unless of course this PM is not notified by his foreign ministry. -
Hi bangkokboy,Originally posted by bangkokboy:Black Aces, I suggest you cool down ... do you agree that Singapore could have avoided all this sh.it? As much as you can say Thaksin is innocent, someone else will disagree with you.
I thank you for your reply. Just like you, all of us will side with our host country. If you think I'm emotional here, nope I'm not. I'm just shocked with the latest development. Withdrawing the invitation to the Sing FM & the civil service meet-up, I can understand this but to up the retaliation scales by threatening to cancel a contract for Singapore to use a military training...that's a different matter. Sorry, to say this, but such behaviour is akin to someone threatening to turn-off our water supply when things don't turn out well.
We definitely appreciate Thailand for allowing the SAF to train on Thai soil, but to use threats like that? I really dread to think of the 'consequences' if ONE DAY, Singapore were to hang a Thai drug Trafficker."..do you agree that Singapore could have avoided all this sh.it
.."
Yes & No. This question is akin to a 'chicken & egg' theory. I can even ask you, Thai & Sing relations would not have taken such a twist if Gen Sonthi & his men did not organise that coup d'etat in the 1st place! or even the Thai people should not even have given Thaksin the resounding election victory that proper him into premiership. As the saying goes, who can predict such things in the future?They are the government now... welcome to politics....The winner, like I said, is ToXin
.
Btw, I understand Politics.... I majored in Politics and I understand perfectly clear that "Power comes from the barrel of a gun", sounds familiar? There is no winner here only losers, and that is the image of Thailand.
P/s If Thaksin is guilty of all the 'alledged CRIMES' committed against the Thai people, by all means, charged him (in adsentia) in court. NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. I believe Singapore will treat him as persona non grata here, but if he has not been even charged, don't you agree that Thaksin is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY? or have you and the Bangkok new rulers already charged him as guilty as based on what you just said...personal sentiments or emotions? -
Originally posted by Black Aces:
Haha, I am a Singaporean who happens to question the Singapore Government's diplomatic moves.
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Btw, I understand Politics.... I majored in Politics and I understand perfectly clear that "Power comes from the barrel of a gun", sounds familiar? There is no winner here only losers, and that is the image of Thailand.
P/s If Thaksin is guilty of all the 'alledged CRIMES' committed against the Thai people, by all means, charged him (in adsentia) in court. NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW. I believe Singapore will treat him as persona non grata here, but if he has not been even committed, don't you agree that Thaksin is INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY? or are you and the Bangkok new rulers already charged him as guilty as based on what you just said...personal sentiments or emotions? [/b]
Nobody now knows for sure whether Thaksin is guilty or not, but siding with Thaksin will not help Singapore in anyway. When you make a political decision, you make it for the good of the country, not because you want someone to practise freedom of speech and whatever.
I don't care if Thailand moves backwards due to the coup, I just want to know why the Singapore Government made such a huge boo-boo. Let Thaksin, whether guilty or innocent go to Somalia for the CNN interview or Iraq even. Let the Thai government condemn Iraq, Somalia, Congo even...
Facts are facts. Thaksin guilty or innocent is not known yet, but the fact is that Thaksin managed to get interviewed in Singapore and managed to meet up with a Cabinet Minister in Singapore.
My english might not be as good as you guys, but I just wish to ask what good does Singapore get out of hosting Thaksin? Is there anything we get to gain from this? If you even have the slightest hint that your actions will anger someone and you choose to carry out that action, you are asking for retaliatory actions. -
Originally posted by Black Aces:
In politics, there is a thin line between right and wrong.
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Btw, I understand Politics.... I majored in Politics and I understand perfectly clear that "Power comes from the barrel of a gun", sounds familiar? There is no winner here only losers, and that is the image of Thailand.
[/b]
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. - Groucho Marx
I find the above quote very appropriate. Both for the Thai Government and the Singapore Government.
And this is for our Singapore Government.
He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent which will reach to himself. - Thomas Paine -
Originally posted by Fatum:
thai workers ain't that innocent when u compare them wif bangla. Sure, like u said, bangla workers go down to orchard road to "grab ass" during festive seasons.......thai workers don't. But do u know, when thai workers gather under a tree or along the grass patch, they will have bottles of beer n bits to chew on. Once they leave, they will leave behind all them beer bottles and trash. They don't bother to pick em up and put em in the trash bin. So we have the bangla "ass grabbin" and the thai leaving trash and beer bottles around. Both are equally the same. But I would take PRC workers anytime. Know why? Cause their government told them to behave and be model PRC workers when in other country. I have worked with Thai, Bangla and PRC workers. The ones that really worked their heart out are the PRC anytime
[b]would you like to see more thai workers or bangla workers ? ...
at least I don't see thai workers going down to orchard road to play "grab ass" during festive seasons ... [/b]
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Originally posted by Black Aces:
You majored in Politics. I am sure you understand politics.
.
Btw, I understand Politics.... I majored in Politics and I understand perfectly clear that "Power comes from the barrel of a gun", sounds familiar? There is no winner here only losers, and that is the image of Thailand.
[/b]
If a book was written about this event, the title would probably be the ''internal politics of Thailand''.
It would be better if Singapore was not mentioned amongst the contents let alone allow herself to be used. If your studies suggest that we get embroiled in the politics of other countries, I am utterly flabberglasted.
Maybe we should all carry arms in the defense of Thaksin's rights. But leave me out of it. -
So is UN!Originally posted by Black Aces:I ALWAYS believe that the ASEAN org is CRAP! -
Originally posted by FireAndHell:But do u know, when thai workers gather under a tree or along the grass patch, they will have bottles of beer n bits to chew on. Once they leave, they will leave behind all them beer bottles and trash. They don't bother to pick em up and put em in the trash bin.
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Did the Sing govt INVITED Thaksin here? Please enlighten me here.Originally posted by bangkokboy:Nobody now knows for sure whether Thaksin is guilty or not, but siding with Thaksin will not help Singapore in anyway. When you make a political decision, you make it for the good of the country, not because you want someone to practise freedom of speech and whatever.[/quote]
By allowing Thaksin entry into Sing MEANT Sing is SIDING WITH Thaksin? So, when the NK deputy FM visited Sing, does it meant that Sing is siding with NK against the US (Japan possibly) on the nuclear issue? Or when a Cuban (health?) minister visited Sing, this meant that Sing is siding with Cuba against the US? or when a Sing Speaker of Parliament visited Iran early this year, does it mean that Sing is siding with Iran against the UN on Iran's Nuclear issue?...the fact is that Thaksin managed to get interviewed in Singapore and managed to meet up with a Cabinet Minister in Singapore.
What are you implying? WHAT WOULD you HAVE done if you are... say the PM and you were told that Thaksin would be gving an interview by an international media in an hour's time?...but I just wish to ask what good does Singapore get out of hosting Thaksin?..
[quote]If you even have the slightest hint that your actions will anger someone and you choose to carry out that action, you are asking for retaliatory actions.Come to think, I agree with you. Perhaps we shouldn't have caned Michael Fay or even have hanged Nguyen Tuong Van. Perhaps Sing should NOT have arrested those JI operatives that are planning to attack the MRT stations. -
Don' take Hainan for granted.
China will only gift Singapore a training base if sg military completely move out of Taiwan. -
By allowing Thaksin entry into Sing MEANT Sing is SIDING WITH Thaksin? So, when the NK deputy FM visited Sing, does it meant that Sing is siding with NK against the US (Japan possibly) on the nuclear issue? Or when a Cuban (health?) minister visited Sing, this meant that Sing is siding with Cuba against the US? or when a Sing Speaker of Parliament visited Iran early this year, does it mean that Sing is siding with Iran against the UN on Iran's Nuclear issue?
You are a major in politics. Can you explain China's reaction to our PM Lee's visit to Taiwan. I would love to hear more from someone who has extensive knowledge of the way politics work.What are you implying? WHAT WOULD you HAVE done if you are... say the PM and you were told that Thaksin would be gving an interview by an international media in an hour's time?
I would have distanced myself from it. Condemned it even. Call it cowardice or conformity or whatever you want.Did the Sing govt INVITED Thaksin here? Please enlighten me here.
Nope, but Mr. DPM met up with him. Friends or not, he is still a representative of our Government.Come to think, I agree with you. Perhaps we shouldn't have caned Michael Fay or even have hanged Nguyen Tuong Van. Perhaps Sing should NOT have arrested those JI operatives that are planning to attack the MRT stations
Yes. Thank you for agreeing with me. But I disagree with the examples you gave. Dumb examples if you ask me. If you wish to quote examples, you should suggest that Singapore forgo relationships with China just to forge greater friendship with Taiwan. That would be a great example of creating frosty political relationship for the sake of it. Wasn't our PM's visit a simple visit too? -
Did I missed something? You were arguing the fact that "Sing shouldn't shouldn't do this, shouldn't do that.. .. and saying this is politics' . Give us your justifications and enlighten us here...and not just go harping on the issue base on the above claims. It is akin to a convicted murderer being hauled to court and shouting that "I'm innocent! I'm innocent! I have a alibi"! and when asked for the alibi, can't produce.Originally posted by bangkokboy:... If your studies suggest that we get embroiled in the politics of other countries, I am utterly flabberglasted.[/quote]
If that's your understanding of poilitics and the dynamics of international politics, I suggest you read up on Politics and not rely just on your basic understanding of politics to make such a comment.
[quote]...But leave me out of it.
This forum is for sharing, if you have some deep-provoking thoughts, enlighten us here, let us dwell in it. But if you can't back up with more substance, it is perfectly alright that you end your reply with a full-stop as your further replies are beginning to sound like you are .....say 'emotional'? -
Much has been written and published on the China/Taiwan....if you're interested, you can search the internet. You can get tons on info there and you definitely can understand China's stance towards Taiwan vis-a-vis its reaction to foreign VIP visits to the island.Originally posted by bangkokboy:...Can you explain China's reaction to our PM Lee's visit to Taiwan. ...I would have distanced myself from it. Condemned it even. Call it cowardice or conformity or whatever you want.
Distanced? How and what?... Dumb examples if you ask me.
Well, my 'dumb examples' are based on your arguments, so you're implying your arguments are 'dumb'? -
If that's your understanding of poilitics and the dynamics of international politics, I suggest you read up on Politics and not rely just on your basic understanding of politics to make such a comment.
That's why I need your explanation. You majored in Politics. I just want to know why. I didn't major in politics, damn it, I hate politics. I'm a simple harmless guy with no knowledge in world politics. I want to know why China was so upset, Mr Chen Shui Bian was not charged in any courts if I was not wrong, is it something to do with politics? If there was no political reasons behind the protest then what was it? Enlighten me please. Thank you.Did I missed something? You were arguing the fact that "Sing shouldn't shouldn't do this, shouldn't do that.. .. and saying this is politics' . Give us your justifications and enlighten us here...and not just go harping on the issue base on the above claims. It is akin to a convicted murderer being hauled to court and shouting that "I'm innocent! I'm innocent! I have a alibi"! and when asked for the alibi, can't produce.
Haha, I would do that if you could share what Singapore has to gain from siding with Thaksin. I ONLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT SINGAPORE HAS TO GAIN. I am not saying the coup is good, Thaksin is nice, all I am asking for Singapore is to distance herself from Thaksin.
This forum is for sharing, if you have some deep-provoking thoughts, enlighten us here, let us dwell in it. But if you can't back up with more substance, it is perfectly alright that you end your reply with a full-stop as your further replies are beginning to sound like you are .....say 'emotional'?
What is your justification for Singapore not distancing herself from Thaksin. My reason is for the sake of preserving political relationships. Now what is your justification for Singapore not distancing herself from Thaksin? -
I know Thaksin has every right to be here. There is no reason whatsoever to stop him. Hell if he wants to go Sentosa I would even offer to show him around, but do you agree that the meeting with our DPM was kinda unnecessary?
If China's stance against any private meetings with Taiwan's officials (be it to talk about the EPL or just drinking kopi) is understandable then is it unfair for the Thai government to question the private meeting between Thaksin and our Singapore Government official?
Tell me is there any difference between this 2 sentence:
China complains of Singapore Government official's private meeting with XXX.
Thailand complains of Singapore Government official's private meeting with XXX.
I am not questioning whether Thaksin can be here but guys face it, it's politics. Damn it I hate politics...
Peace.