Matador launcher sold for A$2
-
Rocket launcher bought from tip, Dylan Welch,January 3, 2007Police have recovered a rocket launcher bought by a local man from a tip in central Queensland for $2, which he then handed over to a local newspaper.
2.I hope not sold by SAF!!
The Matador anti-armor rocket launcher is a 90mm single-use weapon designed by Singapore.
The expended rocket launcher was initially found at a recycling centre attached to a tip at Yeppoon, near Rockhampton, by local man James Maloney.
"I work in the local theatre restaurant and wanted to use it as a stage prop," he said.
However, when he read a story in a local paper about the army misplacing rocket launchers, he decided to hand the weapon over.
He gave the weapon to a reporter from Rockhampton's The Morning Bulletin, who kept if for a number of days to photograph it and write a story.
"The police rang me earlier this evening and they told me they didn't know where it was so I redirected them back to the reporter," Mr Maloney said earlier this week, adding that the last time he saw the weapon was in the back seat of the reporter's car.
The reporter handed it in at Yapoon police station at 8.30am local time (9.30am AEST) today.
"It's sitting right in front of me at the moment. I'm sitting here trying to deal with it," said Senior Constable Vicky Lees.
"It's not dangerous at all ... unless you have some sort of explosive to fire it off it's not dangerous."
She said Queensland police and the Defence Department were attempting to trace the serial number found on the weapon.
Mr Maloney believes it was used in an exercise at the nearby Shoalwater Bay military traininng area.
He had seen used shell canisters at the same rubbish tip from time to time.
A Defence Department spokesman said the matter was under investigation.
The spokesman also said it would be "unusual" for used military ordinance to be dumped at a public tip.
with AAP
3.
another report fr www.smh.com.au -
Another case of ignorant reporter's sensationalism blowing up matters.
Expended single-use rocket launcher means that it is just an empty tube and ...
The expended rocket launcher was initially found at a recycling centre attached to a tip at Yeppoon, near Rockhampton, by local man James Maloney.
... is therefore no longer a weapon! Its just like saying that a scabbard is a weapon.
He gave the weapon to a reporter from Rockhampton's The Morning Bulletin, who kept if for a number of days to photograph it and write a story.
Huh??? Even the police spokesperson is talking drivel!
said Senior Constable Vicky Lees.
"It's not dangerous at all ... unless you have some sort of explosive to fire it off it's not dangerous." -
It may be possible that our boys chose to dump these small quantities of expended ammo in a public rubbish point than take back to the ammo dump which can be quite troublesome as the whole exercise area is very huge!
But then again to miss out a thing as large as an expended Matador tube is still a surprise. Wonder how the ammo storeman can leave this out when they return expended ammo. -
This kind of incident is a result of a bo chap attitude.
-
Maybe its not a Matador but a Panzerfaust 90 ? They both like the same.
-
I doubt its the Singapore Army. The report mentions that it could be the US marines or the US army.
-
If its really one of our guys, the poor fella gonna kena DB?
-
The US Army and Marines don't use the Matador as far as i know.Originally posted by scabstermooch:I doubt its the Singapore Army. The report mentions that it could be the US marines or the US army. -
Wah, jia lat liao....confirm SAF equipment....I wonder who will end up shouldering the blame. By tracing the serial number, it will be pretty easy to track it back to the issuing unit.
-
and back to the issuing platoon and back to the man who shot it.
-
are u sure it is a SAF equipment? the article did not confirm it, only say singapore design mahOriginally posted by Weirdo80:Wah, jia lat liao....confirm SAF equipment....I wonder who will end up shouldering the blame. By tracing the serial number, it will be pretty easy to track it back to the issuing unit. -
But if the Wallaby units are instructed to leave all their expended rounds in the SWBTA, then any leftover parts or expended ammo should be the responsibility of the Australian Army/local dept to clear.
I'm beginning to see that it may not be the fault of our boys. Let's not jump to conclusions. -
US troops are issued the AT-4 or the Javelin.Originally posted by scabstermooch:I doubt its the Singapore Army. The report mentions that it could be the US marines or the US army. -
Hi guys......I live in Rockhampton...and I also work for the local logistics group that supplies everything for the SAF when on exercise at SWBTA.....as you may know,the company is called P.I.Q. The refusal dump where this "weapon" was found is actually in the town of Yeppoon,approximately 1 hours drive from the nearest SWBTA entrance. I highly doubt this "weapon" would be SAF equipment.....as it is illegal to remove any SAF weapons or weapon meterial from SWBTA. And considering the size of the material....it would be impossible for any member of staff to remove it from SWBTA without being noticed. Yes, all used,discarded,weapon material is supposed to be left at the ammo dump, closest to each camp at SWBTA. I highly doubt that any member of the SAF would have any reason,or even want to remove the material from SWBTA either. I have personally seen what happens to all material left at the ammo dump at the end of exercise,and I can telly ou it alol gets packaged up,wrapped in plastic wrap,and shipped to the proper disposal place,as far as I know,taken care of by the A.D.F.
I just want to say, a lot of Australians like to collect military materail,and to someone of that description,which whoever the person is that had this item before dumping it,may of had it in their possession for quite some time.This type of material would most likely be quite a find for them.How someone has come across this item,I cannot say.....but rest assured the authorities willl find out it's origin. -
Thanks ozzy_gurl for the first hand info. We also hope its not the fault of one of our SAF guys. Glad to have you onboard!
-
Maybe not a Matador but a Panzerfaust 90 which is exactly the same. Do the Germans train in Australia ?
-
And what reasons would there be for the Germans to train in Australia??
Germany isn't exactly lacking training space, nor are the terrain features similar. -
Originally posted by glock:Maybe not a Matador but a Panzerfaust 90 which is exactly the same. Do the Germans train in Australia ?
sorry champ,you made me giggle,couldn't help it
No,the Germans don't train in Australia.Only Australians,Singaporeans, and Americans.Unfortunately it looks like it is S.A.F issue....But as far as we can tell,it seems to be the initial mistake of one of the troops,who has been too lazy to send it to ammo dump,but instead has disposed of it in a rubbish bin,but it can also be blamed on rubbish men for not checking the bins to see it was dumped there.We'll never know exactly what happened,as we were not there to see it happen.Unfortunately in the future,it will be much tougher rules for the troops on exercise,to make sure it doesn't happen again,all because someone was too lazy to do the right thing.
-
From The Straits Times, Wednesday 10 Jan 2007, H5
(excerpt from "Used SAF Launcher sold at Aussie recycling Centre" by David Boey)
which means to say SAF did dispose of the items properly but most probably did not exercise due diligence in auditing.
Mindef's investigation so far showed that the used launcher belonged to a batch that was formally handed over to the local Australian contractor, Private Industries (Queensland) Private Limited.
Col Lim said the company "was engaged by the SAF to carry out the proper disposal of used military items in compliance with Australian regulations and laws"
He said equipment to be disposed "would have been crushed or cut up, to ensure the original shape is not retained, before being transported out of Shoalwater Bay Training Area for disposal".
He added: "The SAF takes a serious view of the fact that there was a failure to ensure proper disposal in this instance. We are also reviewing and tightening up the system to ensure that the materials used in training are properly disposed of by our contractor, in lines with our requirements as well as with Australian regulations."
Which now begs the following questions ...
1) Is the Oz contractor going to claim that he sub-contracted the disposal to the recycling centre and that they didn't do it properly?
2) Why wasn't there a MINDEF/SAF personnel onsite to verify the destruction? If there was, was that person on a canteen break? Where I'm coming from is that commercially when my company sent "sensitive" documents to a commercial shredding company, we would have someone witness the actual destruction and would also receive a certificate of disposal. Will the review and tightening up of the system now include this then? -
for one.....thast article is stupid......he didn't even get the company's name right....and he does not know much about the situation because the discarded items are not crushed/destroyed at Shoalwater Bay,they never have been.like i said earlier,they are packed on pallets,plastic wrapped,and shipped to wherever the proper disposal place is.maybe they are crushed before disposal,but not at Shoalwater Bay they aren't.the reason it is believed that it was inproperly dumped in a rubbish bin is because the ammo dump is at camp growl.....which is on the otherside of Shoalwater Bay to where this launcher was found.it was found in yeppoon,the closest camp at Shoalwater Bay from there is sam hill....an hour and a half away.camp growl is 2 and a half to 3 hours from yeppoon.
-
Fair enough if you have local knowledge that would indicate otherwise, but a little substantiation will be appreciated.Originally posted by ozzy_gurl:for one.....thast article is stupid......he didn't even get the company's name right....and he does not know much about the situation because the discarded items are not crushed/destroyed at Shoalwater Bay,they never have been.like i said earlier,they are packed on pallets,plastic wrapped,and shipped to wherever the proper disposal place is.maybe they are crushed before disposal,but not at Shoalwater Bay they aren't.the reason it is believed that it was inproperly dumped in a rubbish bin is because the ammo dump is at camp growl.....which is on the otherside of Shoalwater Bay to where this launcher was found.it was found in yeppoon,the closest camp at Shoalwater Bay from there is sam hill....an hour and a half away.camp growl is 2 and a half to 3 hours from yeppoon.
For one ... perhaps a map of SWBTA, and the camps in relation, will be a good starting point for us geographically challenged people (like moi) ... after all, AFAIK, Camp Growler, Sam Hill, etc.. could all still be within the SWBTA proper and hence hand over to contractor and disposal at these locations will still constitute the items remaining in SWBTA?
Also, that they've never been crushed/destroyed within SWBTA does not indicate that procedures in place did not require them to do so ... it may be indicative that proper procedure has never been followed and has only been found out now.
That the item was found way across the other side of SWBTA doesn't mean much if P.I.Q transported the items to Yeppoon and resold the item(s) to a recycler there. Again as I mentioned, there exist a possibility that P.I.Q sub-contracted out their part of the contract.
IF the contractor did not properly crush/destroy the items before removal from SWBTA then that will be a fault on their part. The blame will also partly lie with the SAF for not observing due process of auditing proper compliance.
I find this scenario kinda hard to imagine. Accounting of ammunition in SAF training in Singapore is relatively strict. It requires that all expended ammo be returned to the Ammo Dump. This includes parts of expended items such as grenade safety rings. While the accounting for small and voluminous items like 5.56 empty casing may have a margin for error, there is little to no margin for error for larger items, esp. expended tube launchers.Originally posted by ozzy_gurl:But as far as we can tell,it seems to be the initial mistake of one of the troops,who has been too lazy to send it to ammo dump,but instead has disposed of it in a rubbish bin
I doubt that the SAF will implement a different system from what they normally operate from, unless the armoury in question in SWBTA is not operate by the SAF ...for one.....thast article is stupid......he didn't even get the company's name right...
easy there gurl ... you never know who's who in forums.
Out of curiousity ... what is the correct company name? -
1= i cannot post a map of SWBTA-there are rules i have to follow,certain rules made by the ADF.
2=It is quite common that the rubbish men find weapons/shells and the such in the rubbish bins....it happens every year,that why i said the rubbish guys should of noticed it in a bin.ofcourse everything that is found is dealt with and reported to the BSM.
3=the company's real name is PRIMARY Industries Queensland; NOT Private Industries Queensland.
4=i think there are a lot of things that have not been found out yet about this,so we will soon see what the deal is when everything is found out. -
Not asking you to provide maps with MGRs and or maps with codes, that would violate OPSEC for sure. Just asking for an indication of the location of the camps you mentioned relative to the SWBTA, from open source of course ... but since you won't, I'll do it for you ...Originally posted by ozzy_gurl:1= i cannot post a map of SWBTA-there are rules i have to follow,certain rules made by the ADF.
From here ... http://www.maunsell.com/media/4418.pdf,
we have on Pg 30, the following:
Samuel Hill Camp – this is situated approx 1 km east of Samuel Hill Airfield in GS6083. This camp is divided into two separate areas, of which each is capable of servicing groups of up to 500 personnel.
Camp Growl Camp – situated approx 2 km north of The Glen airstrip and is accessed from the East-West Road at GR 277749. It is capable of accommodating up to 500 personnel.
From here ... http://jrac.erdc.usace.army.mil/documents/tripreport.pdf
we have on Pg 5, a map showing the locations of Samuel Hill Airfield and The Glen airstrip.
So if we superimpose the info from these 2 sources, we get the following ...
See ... no violation of certain rules made by ADF, all from open source. (BTW the map above is from an environmental report).4=i think there are a lot of things that have not been found out yet about this,so we will soon see what the deal is when everything is found out.
I'm sure there are ... conspiracy theories and speculations will always abound. I guess we'll just have to wait and see eh?
Although I'm sure if this issue really is a case of a total balls up by the SAF (eg. a soldier dumping it into the bin), I'd bet on it that the local press would queue up to rip it to us ... I'm depending on you to post those articles when they appear gurl.
On the other hand, if it was something embarassing to the local scene ... nah ... I'm sure the Aussie press will be fairer than that. -
Oh btw, while searching for the above info, found another interesting map of SWBTA ...
-
Locally, there have only been two articles published about this story,and they have both already been posted here. It is not such a big deal here as it is to you guys apparently. It is being looked inot at work,and will be dealt with. Im not saying it's completely at fault by the SAF,it quite obviously wasn't noticed by contracting staff either.Don't get me wrong,I'd love for it all to be found to be a huge mistake,where no-one is entirely blamed,certainly not the SAF.At first I didn't even believe it could of been SAF issue,it doesn't seem right for it to of happened.But it has happened,and now I'm sure it will never happen again.No matter who was at fault,there are always mistakes made,but once they are made,people learn from them.Don't worry,it doesn't matter who's fault it ends up being,the media will cover it int he same way,whether SAF's fault or PIQ's.There will be no favouring anyone.Originally posted by kotay:I'm sure there are ... conspiracy theories and speculations will always abound. I guess we'll just have to wait and see eh?
Although I'm sure if this issue really is a case of a total balls up by the SAF (eg. a soldier dumping it into the bin), I'd bet on it that the local press would queue up to rip it to us ... I'm depending on you to post those articles when they appear gurl.
On the other hand, if it was something embarassing to the local scene ... nah ... I'm sure the Aussie press will be fairer than that.