Are Singaporean conscripts too soft?
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When a "spoilt kid" is threatened with the loss of his "democracy" toys, he will be ferocious. Very ferocious.Originally posted by IAF:Yet it was the 'spoiled children of democracy' that fought on the beaches of normandy and defeated the Nazis (to paraphrase Stephen Ambrose in his book "D-Day") -
Ya, I see insurgents with RPGs and homebrew explosives giving the most technologically advanced force in the world as heck of a time in Iraq.Originally posted by bigballs11:Actually hor, all this crappy siong training to create the ultimate warrior hypothesis is no longer relevant in the 21th century warfare.
Give you a choice, you want a country bumking who is as fit as a bull or a weakass nerb to fight the 21th century warfare?
The answer is pretty clear based on the last recent warfare. -
Can i say that I'd prefer soldiers to be fit as a bull, and at the same time as smart and IT Savvy as well?
It cannot be an either-or scenario. U need both muscles and brain to fight the 21st century war. -
Actually hor, if you were fighting in Iraq you would want to fight on the side of the technologically advanced force. Captured insurgents often express surprise from the fighting prowless of the Yank grunt, having being told before battle that the Yanks rely on technology and cannot fight in a firefight proper.Originally posted by fallin:Ya, I see insurgents with RPGs and homebrew explosives giving the most technologically advanced force in the world as heck of a time in Iraq.
The losses among the insurgents are horrifying. If you look at the big picture you realize that they are actually trading a lot of blood to get in their few hits on the Yanks. A lot of bomb planters are killed trying to plant IEDs (for every sucessful attack) and RPGs launchers tend to run through several users as they are more often then not killed.
There's no way I want to sign up with such an outfit, as much as their few sucessful attacks may make the news. Sure they may have one or two Jubas but most of the force is really hamburger and cannon fodder. -
To be honest, I've never really thought of the US as a really hard and solid land power. When it comes to the US, its navy and air force are its stronger components. Because of the fact that the US is protected on both sides by two oceans and a rather short border with Mexico( the border with Canada non-militarized), there isn't really a need for a large army, unlike China or Russia. So when it comes to the hard and gritty basics, the US Army wouldn't be something that comes to mind for me.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Actually hor, if you were fighting in Iraq you would want to fight on the side of the technologically advanced force. Captured insurgents often express surprise from the fighting prowless of the Yank grunt, having being told before battle that the Yanks rely on technology and canot fight in a stand up battle.
The losses among the insurgents are horrifying. If you look at the big picture you realize that they are actually trading a lot of blood to get in their few hits on the Yanks. A lot of bomb planters are killed trying to plant IEDs (for every sucessful attack) and RPGs launchers tend to run through several users as they are more often then not killed.
There's no way I want to sign up with such an outfit, as much as their few sucessful attacks may make the news. Sure they may have one or two Jubas most of the force is really hamburger and cannon fodder. -
hmm..
for someone who have been in service for the past 8 yrs, i believe im in a fair position to give some comments.
although fact is that training did indeed go softer and the younger generation have also grow weaker in the lieu of Singapore's current peace and prosperity + the new generation parent's upbringing. With changing times and growing wealth + with parents and youngsters getting more well educated, let us face the facts that future generations will probably be worst off and there will probably be more problems.
And most of these problems are beyond the goverment, SAF or anyone in authority. However we must remind ourselves this is something we have to live with it. And since we have to live with it, let us try to look at things in a positive way~ Things might change for the better if there is a pending war or catastrope, but until then who knows how things might go?
( by then maybe my son will only need to serve 1 yr or no need to serve liao??)
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As long as soldiers like MSG Ross and 2WO Shawn are around, i'm not afraid of our soldiers turning into pussies, that is, if they actually have the "privilege" of training under the abovementioned.
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Oh, I believe that more of those mentioned above should be very useful to the SAF!
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yeah...useful for striking the fear of God in men's hearts...Originally posted by acwire_2125:Oh, I believe that more of those mentioned above should be very useful to the SAF! -
Singaporean male is mainly sedentary unlike in US , Australia or many Western countries. Many boys in these countries pride themselves in excelling in sports such as football , basketball, surfing, skiing, extreme sports etc. It is in their culture / lifestyle - we do not have a culture / lifestyle where many boys engage in contact sports or even sports in general.
When engaged in sporting activities, one develops the competitive and fightin spirit ,teamwork and quick thinking besides physical & mental conditioning.
Hence , physically we are softies compared to others.
However, NS does give us more than basic skills and know how to conduct combat operations. It also conditions us physically and mentally. Without NS, we are even worse of. However, all developed countries face problems with a young generation who are more sedentary compared to the older generation. However, more importantly is what is in the mind - fighting spirit, determination and will. History is replete with examples of fighters having these qualities who victor over their more numerous, " tougher " or technologically advanced enemies. -
Hmm? But most major American military actions involve them sending in their ground forces... and one also needs to know that they don't exactly tailor their forces for defensive homeland operations, but rather power and policy projection. They need a solid ground force to do that.Originally posted by fallin:To be honest, I've never really thought of the US as a really hard and solid land power. When it comes to the US, its navy and air force are its stronger components. Because of the fact that the US is protected on both sides by two oceans and a rather short border with Mexico( the border with Canada non-militarized), there isn't really a need for a large army, unlike China or Russia. So when it comes to the hard and gritty basics, the US Army wouldn't be something that comes to mind for me.
I don't see anything really wrong with their grunts. They can fight, and they are certainly far better then stuff the Ruskies throw at the insurgents in Gronzy, and they have been dishing out a lot more damage then they are taking when in the level firefights that they have been involved in. That's pretty good by any books. They have decent grunts that can get the job done. -
When they ended conscription & changed to a professional army & upgraded quality of personnel and training , the US ended up with grunts who can fight well in combat. Their ground forces are actually very good - they can give the enemy a knockout punch and can also take casualties.
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i'm juz impressed with the US service and support elements...something singapore could learn from...
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Yes, especially when their admin staff such as drivers need to face insurgent ambushes and IED. They need to fight back and defend their vehicle.Originally posted by Rockhound:i'm juz impressed with the US service and support elements...something singapore could learn from...
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It's a good move by the Army to create the Combat Service Support Command, and move more combat fit support troops into positions where they have to learn section tactics and fire assault movements.Originally posted by tankee1981:Yes, especially when their admin staff such as drivers need to face insurgent ambushes and IED. They need to fight back and defend their vehicle.
It is a small step towards ensuring that those in the logistics community who are fit for combat, learn combat skills as well as their vocational skills. -
i don't think we have enough manpower for that. especially nowadays so many obese, pes c, pes e intakes.Originally posted by LazerLordz:It's a good move by the Army to create the Combat Service Support Command, and move more combat fit support troops into positions where they have to learn section tactics and fire assault movements.
It is a small step towards ensuring that those in the logistics community who are fit for combat, learn combat skills as well as their vocational skills. -
That's why for those who are PES A and B in CSSC, they will have to be trained in both.Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:i don't think we have enough manpower for that. especially nowadays so many obese, pes c, pes e intakes.
And the role of technicians will become greater as the 3G SAF starts to mature, with more and more systems coming. -
Yes i agree, this is because the supply chain is a easy target for the enemy pecial forces andinsurgents alike. And when our supply chain is crippled our much touted 3G Army will be next to useless.Originally posted by LazerLordz:It's a good move by the Army to create the Combat Service Support Command, and move more combat fit support troops into positions where they have to learn section tactics and fire assault movements.
It is a small step towards ensuring that those in the logistics community who are fit for combat, learn combat skills as well as their vocational skills. -
Just out of curiosity.....
our range ATP is modelled after which country one, Israeli har? Bcos I visit some other country forum, their range seems to emphasize not onli on hitting the target, but also hitting how close to the bulls eye, even for normal infantry man. Like for example, they got rings on the target board and they see how close the firer hit the center of the man-size target. -
I'm pes E. And from how we r equipped and trained, I would say, we will all die when the shit hits the fan.Originally posted by alwaysdisturbed:i don't think we have enough manpower for that. especially nowadays so many obese, pes c, pes e intakes. -
Care to elaborate?Originally posted by Hidden^OnE:I'm pes E. And from how we r equipped and trained, I would say, we will all die when the shit hits the fan.
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I happen to disagree with you.Originally posted by Hidden^OnE:I'm pes E. And from how we r equipped and trained, I would say, we will all die when the shit hits the fan.
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When the sshit hits the fan? Depends on what kinda sshit.
If its gonna be ICMs landing on us, yes, we (logistics troops) are gonna die.
If its gonna be enemy air to ground attacks, yes, we will die.
If its enemy special forces ambush, we will MOST likely die.
If its enemy partisan forces, non-regular troops.... different story liao... -
There was this case where a convoy was under attack, this female spec chionged the insurgents and killed four of them, even returning to the Hummers to get more ammo when she finished her contact rate. To be killed by a woman must be one of the more undesirable deaths for the insurgent.Originally posted by tankee1981:Yes, especially when their admin staff such as drivers need to face insurgent ambushes and IED. They need to fight back and defend their vehicle. -
wow, there will always be examples to showcase the superiority of women in this ageOriginally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:There was this case where a convoy was under attack, this female spec chionged the insurgents and killed four of them, even returning to the Hummers to get more ammo when she finished her contact rate. To be killed by a woman must be one of the more undesirable deaths for the insurgent.