China's J10 fighter jets officially revealed--Xinhua news
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How will our F-16C fare against a single seater J-10? This is taking into consideration that J-10 is deemed more comparable with the Typhoon and the Rafale.(look below for quote)
...DOD seemed to offer a re-assessment of the capabilities of China’s F-10 ( J-10 in Chinese) fighter, which it previously had compared to the F-16 Block 30. (See “Washington Watch: Chinese Military Is Catching Up—Fast,” September 2005, p. 12.) In this latest version of the annual China report, the Pentagon said the F-10 is probably more comparable to the Eurofighter Typhoon and French Rafale, considered among the top three fighters in the world today, after the US F-22A.
http://www.afa.org/magazine/July2006/0706watch.asp -
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Are the PLAAF's pilots still being trained in Russia?
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eh..j10 issit china's own invention?OR?
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Perhaps only the engine is Russian derived. But im not sure about the avionics though. I believe the Chinese will build and develop a J-10 variant with thrust vectoring engine sooner or later.
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the j10 is too heavy. it uses an all metal airframe and cannot outturn an f16.
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I read pretty much elsewhere that the J-10 airframe has part-composite frame.
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Its a rebirth from the Israeli Lavi Project.Originally posted by alex8105:eh..j10 issit china's own invention?OR?
Given equal support, the J10 can give the F-16C the run for its money. -
here boys,...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=374dbc294c
the female newscaster at the end of the clip's cute too ...
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See this clearer one:Originally posted by Fatum:here boys,...
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=374dbc294c
the female newscaster at the end of the clip's cute too ... 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhnZIx-hwc
Well, J10's aerodynamic design features are Delta wing + canard, So, the design itself can give J10 better performance than F16 at high speed, similar to Mirage2000, remember, Greek AF delta wing Mirage 2000 usually won over Turkish AF's F16C because of its better instant turn rate, while Canard in conjunction with digital FBW, gives superior low speed performance as well, similar to F16 as seen from the video, one also can see from the video, J10's Instantaneous turn rate probably over 30 degree, better than F16�fs 26 deg, overall roll rate > 300 deg, interested one, may use stopwatch to check, that�fs achieved with 3 fuel tanks + 4 AAMs ( 2 PL8 IR AAM + 2 PL12 MRAAM), it was said at this loading, J10 still can reach Mach2 while F16 has to be without combat load.
The avionics of J-10 won�ft be that bad as well, the glass c-ockpit of lower tie JF-17 fighter made by the same aircraft company that also makes J10 actually is comparable to latest F-16 BLK50/52:
JF-17 c-ockpit
However, I will vote F-16's radar is more mature and powerful as it provides more modes, so nowadays F16 is more a multi-role platform rather than air superiority one, actually, the all time favorite superiority ( A2A) F-16 IMO is not the latest blocks but BLK20/30 with MLU. The newer blk F16s although with more powerful engine, the T/W ratio is dropped rather than increased because of the multi-role needs. -
Wah, their pilots can march better than our infantry!
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The F-16's turn rate at corner velocity assuming Cat I stores is only 19 degrees per sec. Any conservative estimations of the J10's? Best if there are more published open sources.Originally posted by 38�Ž:See this clearer one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDhnZIx-hwc
Well, J10's aerodynamic design features are Delta wing + canard, So, the design itself can give J10 better performance than F16 at high speed, similar to Mirage2000, remember, Greek AF delta wing Mirage 2000 usually won over Turkish AF's F16C because of its better instant turn rate, while Canard in conjunction with digital FBW, gives superior low speed performance as well, similar to F16 as seen from the video, one also can see from the video, J10's Instantaneous turn rate probably over 30 degree, better than F16�fs 26 deg, overall roll rate > 300 deg, interested one, may use stopwatch to check, that�fs achieved with 3 fuel tanks + 4 AAMs ( 2 PL8 IR AAM + 2 PL12 MRAAM), it was said at this loading, J10 still can reach Mach2 while F16 has to be without combat load.
The avionics of J-10 won�ft be that bad as well, the glass c-ockpit of lower tie JF-17 fighter made by the same aircraft company that also makes J10 actually is comparable to latest F-16 BLK50/52:
JF-17 c-ockpit
However, I will vote F-16's radar is more mature and powerful as it provides more modes, so nowadays F16 is more a multi-role platform rather than air superiority one, actually, the all time favorite superiority ( A2A) F-16 IMO is not the latest blocks but BLK20/30 with MLU. The newer blk F16s although with more powerful engine, the T/W ratio is dropped rather than increased because of the multi-role needs. -
Originally posted by Shotgun:
Feb-07 issue of Air Forces Monthly( AFM) features the J-10 official launch. An article by Dr Riccardo Nicolli titled "One Fighter or Two?" has a chart of modern fighters including the J-10. The stats given:
The F-16's turn rate at corner velocity assuming Cat I stores is only 19 degrees per sec. Any conservative estimations of the J10's? Best if there are more published open sources.
At an air combat load ( @ 2 PL-12, 2 PL-8, ) and typical combat height, based on the various video released and other sources, the J-10 also has such estimations:
Span: 9.7m
Length: 15.5m
Wing area: 39 sq metres
Powerplant: one 123kN
Weight empty: 8300kg
Max TO weight: 18000kg
Weight A-to-A cbt: 13200kg
Max Speed at high level: Mach 2.2
Max Speed at S/L: Mach 1.2
Load factor: +9/-3G
Internal fuel: 4500kg
Hardpoints: 11
Missile load MRAAM: 4? ( PL-12)
Missile load SRAAM: 4? ( PL- 8 )
AoA limitation under FBW control: 28 degree
Corner speed: 165 m/s = 594 kms/hr
(165 * 165)/ 90 = 302.5
turn radius : 302.5 meters
(302.5 * 2 * 3.1416) / 165 = 11.52 Seconds
Max. Instantaneous turn rate of J-10 :
360 degree/11.52 s = 31.2 degree/second
Instantaneous turn rate is very important for any fighter engaging dog fighting. -
But not much is know of its radar n engine performances n late versions F-16 is still slightly more agile.
BLK 52/52+ F-16------------ G-Limits, 9.4/-3
J-10---------------------------- G-limits, 9/-3 -
Originally posted by 38�Ž:
Woah, I'm not a genius in mathematics, maybe u'd like to explain why you multiplied some numbers and not for others.
At an air combat load ( @ 2 PL-12, 2 PL-8, ) and typical combat height, based on the various video released and other sources, the J-10 also has such estimations:
AoA limitation under FBW control: 28 degree
Corner speed: [b]165 m/s = 594 kms/hr
(165 * 165)/ 90 = 302.5
Minimum turn radius : 302.5 meters
(302.5 * 2 * 3.1416) / 165 = 11.52 Seconds
Max. Instantaneous turn rate of J-10 :
360 degree/11.52 s = 31.2 degree/second
Instantaneous turn rate is very important for any fighter engaging dog fighting.[/b]
As far as I know, minimum turn radius generally does not imply the aircraft is at its best turning rate. Generally, to achieve a minimal turn radius, the aircraft would be below its best turn rate.
Its very true that instantaneous turn rate is very important in dogfights. However, sustained turn rate allows the aircraft to maintain energy while manuevering to a favorable position to attack. So the question is, does it bleed too much airspeed in sustained turns? And if it does, does it have the power and necessary aerodynamics recover from the bleed.
On a side note, from what i understand, the G-limiter on the F-16 is set to 9gs as well. Without limitations, the pilot cannot tahan. -
Is this china aircraft better than the F-15D Eagle that our Singapore Air Force is buying? If better, maybe Singapore can consider this china airplane instead of the F-15D? This China aircraft is built based on the F-16 airframe.
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Negative on both. RSAF bought the F-15SG Strike eagle, not the F-15D eagle. The SG is actually a variant of the F-15E Strike Eagle. Differences between the Eagles and Strike eagles is that the Strike Eagles are optimized in strike and deep strike roles.Originally posted by norm:Is this china aircraft better than the F-15D Eagle that our Singapore Air Force is buying? If better, maybe Singapore can consider this china airplane instead of the F-15D? This China aircraft is built based on the F-16 airframe.
The J10 has not been combat proven and still very little is known about this aircraft's capability. Russian engine designs are not exactly maintenance friendly as well.
No way. -
Regarding minimum turn radius, yes, you got it correct, I therefore revised my original post.Originally posted by Shotgun:Woah, I'm not a genius in mathematics, maybe u'd like to explain why you multiplied some numbers and not for others.
As far as I know, minimum turn radius generally does not imply the aircraft is at its best turning rate. Generally, to achieve a minimal turn radius, the aircraft would be below its best turn rate.
Its very true that instantaneous turn rate is very important in dogfights. However, sustained turn rate allows the aircraft to maintain energy while manuevering to a favorable position to attack. So the question is, does it bleed too much airspeed in sustained turns? And if it does, does it have the power and necessary aerodynamics recover from the bleed.
On a side note, from what i understand, the G-limiter on the F-16 is set to 9gs as well. Without limitations, the pilot cannot tahan.
sustained turn rate theoretically gives better energy state, but one relies on sustained turn rate to outrun its opponent is time taking thus not economy at all. So, usually, the instant Turn rate is the major factor linked to measure the fighterÂ’s nose pointing ability thus maneuverability. Remember, how a far inferior Greek Mirage 2000 in terms of sustained turn rate usually won over Turkish F-16 C/D? because, the delta winged Mirage 2000 got a better instant turn rate that allow the Mirage2000 always pointed its nose to F-16C/D 1st and shooting the all-aspect IR AAM. DonÂ’t like Mirage 2000, J-10 actually got a very similar T/W to F-16 C/D. so both F16 & J10 wonÂ’t have too much difference in terms of Sustained Turn rate, even the F16 got a slight better sustained turn rate, the dog fight just wonÂ’t stretch too long because todayÂ’s high-G, all aspect/high offbore sight AAM just so advanced, you only need roughly point your fighterÂ’s nose towards the enemy within a fair distance, you could shoot and usually the missile will finish the job for you. -
In combat, I think both the F-16 and the J-10 will fire their missiles at each other quite simultaneously, hence both aircrafts will be destroyed within seconds of each other. Any encounter will be suicidal for both.Originally posted by 38�Ž:Regarding minimum turn radius, yes, you got it correct, I therefore revised my original post.
sustained turn rate theoretically gives better energy state, but one relies on sustained turn rate to outrun its opponent is time taking thus not economy at all. So, usually, the instant Turn rate is the major factor linked to measure the fighterÂ’s nose pointing ability thus maneuverability. Remember, how a far inferior Greek Mirage 2000 in terms of sustained turn rate usually won over Turkish F-16 C/D? because, the delta winged Mirage 2000 got a better instant turn rate that allow the Mirage2000 always pointed its nose to F-16C/D 1st and shooting the all-aspect IR AAM. DonÂ’t like Mirage 2000, J-10 actually got a very similar T/W to F-16 C/D. so both F16 & J10 wonÂ’t have too much difference in terms of Sustained Turn rate, even the F16 got a slight better sustained turn rate, the dog fight just wonÂ’t stretch too long because todayÂ’s high-G, all aspect/high offbore sight AAM just so advanced, you only need roughly point your fighterÂ’s nose towards the enemy within a fair distance, you could shoot and usually the missile will finish the job for you.
The J-10 nose look a bit like the F-4 Phantom nose in shape and size. -
Got more numbers here.
F-16 approx time (corner airspeed) to complete a 360 turn, sustained = 25secs
Turn radius given turn at corner airspeed, is between 3,500 to 4,500 feet. -
J-10 video showing a lot of high angle taking off & missile firing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoXKa1gJtdg
