RSN LSTs large enough to take Leopard tanks?
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The internal layout of the Endurance class LST above shows a few AMX-13 SM1 light tanks in its cargo deck. How about the Leopard2 MBT which is much large than the AMX-13 SM1? The 23m landing craft carried aboard the Endurance class LSTs are clearly too small to take a Leopard 2.
Cheers,
Sunho -
The 23m landing craft carried aboard the Endurance class LST. -
Hmmm I think the internal width should be enough to accomodate the width of the Leo2. Just that... dunno can tahan the weight anot.
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I read from som source they quote or LST can carry at least 350men and 18MBT at one go. But can the Leopard2 purchase justify us to get a larger transport like dat of a LPD?
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Of course it can .
I believe it has capacity to carry 18 MBTs + 20 light vehicles and 350 troops.
During beaching, Bow ramp open and vehicles just drive toward the beach.
Read below:State-of-the-art bow door/ramp capable of
http://www.stengg.com/upload/572N81fXA1DTA3OViRd.pdf
transloading tracked and wheeled (RoRo) vehicles
of up to MLC 60 onto the tank deck. -
Denmark's new Absalon class flexible support ships are said to be capable of carrying as many as 10 Leopard 2 MBTs.
http://www.navalhistory.dk/English/TheShips/Classes/Absalon_Class(2004).htm
Cheers,
Sunho -
Then beaching is the only option for the RSN LST to land Leopard 2 MBTs. This may limit the SAF's operational flexibility if there is no shore suitable for beaching in the SAF's objective area.Originally posted by gary1910:Of course it can .
I believe it has capacity to carry 18 MBTs + 20 light vehicles and 350 troops.
During beaching, Bow ramp open and vehicles just drive toward the beach.
Read below:
http://www.stengg.com/upload/572N81fXA1DTA3OViRd.pdf
As a matter of fact, although there were five Sir Lancelot class LSLs (Landing Ship Logistics) with a bow door http://www.rfa.graphical.freeuk.com/lsl.html in the British Task Force that retook the Falklands in 1982, no beaching was made due to lack of suitable shores in the entire Falkland islands. The British had no option but to rely on LCUs and barges to make numerous runs between the shore and amphibious ships.
Cheers,
Sunho -
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ST Marine can always do a stretching modification to the existing vessels. That should increase their capacity.
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First there are lot of beach in SEA , secondly we still have Comet(M2B) and Almond which are MLC60 tactical floating bridges, it could be used as a ferry individually or linkup several of them to form a floating bridge.Originally posted by datafuser:Then beaching is the only option for the RSN LST to land Leopard 2 MBTs. This may limit the SAF's operational flexibility if there is no shore suitable for beaching in the SAF's objective area.
As a matter of fact, although there were five Sir Lancelot class LSLs (Landing Ship Logistics) with a bow door http://www.rfa.graphical.freeuk.com/lsl.html in the British Task Force that retook the Falklands in 1982, no beaching was made due to lack of suitable shores in the entire Falkland islands. The British had no option but to rely on LCUs and barges to make numerous runs between the shore and amphibious ships.
Cheers,
Sunho
http://www.global-defence.com/1998/CompanyProfile/ewk.htm -
how are we going to transport the floating bridges?Originally posted by gary1910:First there are lot of beach in SEA , secondly we still have Comet(M2B) and Almond which are MLC60 tactical floating bridges, it could be used as a ferry individually or linkup several of them to form a floating bridge.
http://www.global-defence.com/1998/CompanyProfile/ewk.htm
Plus it is highly vulnerable and slow to do that.
I think shipping leopard is only for peaceful and favour condition,like involve in UN mission and landed in friendly countries by LSD. -
What I am saying is that our Endurance LSTs is not only options to transport our MBTs.Originally posted by zenden9:how are we going to transport the floating bridges?
Plus it is highly vulnerable and slow to do that.
I think shipping leopard is only for peaceful and favour condition,like involve in UN mission and landed in friendly countries by LSD.
A floating bridges will only be erected after we have achieved a secured beachhead, air and sea control over the area. -
I think the Leopard tanks can definitely be embarked on the LSTs. Question is whether RSN have any landing crafts to ferry them ashore. Maybe an LCAC or similar craft?
For amphibious assaults, do AFVs have any special treatment (compared to purely land-based) for protection against sea water and beach sand?
Anyway, what are the occasions for SAF Leopard tanks to be embarked on an LST? -
No.Originally posted by Singer high:I think the Leopard tanks can definitely be embarked on the LSTs. Question is whether RSN have any landing crafts to ferry them ashore. Maybe an LCAC or similar craft?Originally posted by Singer high:
Maybe UN mission or mission in Iraq when Spore wants to suck up more from Uncle Sam.
Anyway, what are the occasions for SAF Leopard tanks to be embarked on an LST?[/b]
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i believe our ST got what it takes to "zheng" our LST for this big boy..
meanwhile, or rather we need some air transport for this him, doubt our charlie can fit him.
Antonov or C-5 maybe... -
ST Marine offered RSN a much larger LPD, but we chose the smaller design which became the LST.
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LST are designed to land on unprepared position ,as shown below , if the condition is right, the tank will be driven out of the ramp into shallow waters and drive itself onto land.Originally posted by Singer high:I think the Leopard tanks can definitely be embarked on the LSTs. Question is whether RSN have any landing crafts to ferry them ashore. Maybe an LCAC or similar craft?
For amphibious assaults, do AFVs have any special treatment (compared to purely land-based) for protection against sea water and beach sand?
Anyway, what are the occasions for SAF Leopard tanks to be embarked on an LST?
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Below is a Straits Times article about the disaster relief operation back in early 2005.
Does anybody know whether or not any of those RSN LSTs participated in the operation tried to use its bow ramp to land supplies?Jan 11, 2005
Cheers,
Bad weather forces SAF to airlift supplies
Rough seas prevent the usual beach landings for relief forces
THE weather off Meulaboh took a bad turn yesterday, forcing Singapore Armed Forces troops conducting relief operations there to switch to Plan B - air travel.
Instead of heading to shore on Fast Landing Craft, SAF combat engineers and medical personnel from the Humanitarian Assistance Support Group were flown to shore on a steady stream of Super Puma helicopters.
The sudden change in weather conditions came after several days of relatively calm seas.
Yesterday, rough waters prevented craft being launched from the two navy ships off Meulaboh - the RSS Endurance and the RSS Persistence.
Captain Toh Keng Hoe, 27, of 195 Squadron, said: 'The weather was pretty bad. We experienced very bad sea conditions.
'The swell was very high, so there were concerns with launching and getting the landing craft off the well dock, which would be a huge safety issue and would compromise the safety of the landing craft and crew going to the beach.'
The weather was so bad that even the 141m-long Endurance, a landing ship tank, was rocking heavily.
There was an upside to the poor conditions, however. It gave those who stayed aboard the warships time off from their hectic schedules to check equipment or review operations of the past week.
Navy personnel from the RSN's 195 Squadron, who operate the landing craft, have had a busy time since the warships began unloading personnel, vehicles and relief supplies.
Staff Sergeant Max Yeo, 28, a Fast Craft Utility coxswain, for example, is up at 5am each day to prepare his craft. By the time he is done, it is close to 9pm, after which he still has to debrief his men.
On a typical workday, SSG Yeo, who has been with the navy for 10 years, can make as many as 10 trips to shore.
He said: 'The weather has not really been helpful to me. Out at sea, there's the sun and the rain, and the waves just keep coming.'
Capt Toh, the outfit's commander, agrees: 'Sea conditions have been pretty bad. The swells are pretty high. The beach is also giving us a lot of problems.
'There's a lot of debris and the coastal conditions are different from what was stated on the charts.
'We are not sure where we are heading. We're really going into the unknown.'
Despite all this, craft operated by the likes of SSG Yeo have helped deliver tonnes of supplies that he and the crew know will help those whose lives have been devastated by the tsunami.
Sunho -
Thought the Endurance has a bulbous bow sticking out in front. Don't know if the ramp is long enough to overcome this obstacle not unlike the Newports.
Also the future Nat'l Day parade at Marina Bay will be on heavy duty pontoons(maybe more capable than British mexoflottes)....I suppose these will be compatible with Endurance somehow even though it's suppose to be designed by army engineers.
Edit: I think the bow ramp is more for RO/RO purposes only. -
When they call them LSTs.. rest be assured the ramp is for landing, just like any LSTs. Exactly how? War time u'll find out.Originally posted by Fairyland:Thought the Endurance has a bulbous bow sticking out in front. Don't know if the ramp is long enough to overcome this obstacle not unlike the Newports.
Also the future Nat'l Day parade at Marina Bay will be on heavy duty pontoons(maybe more capable than British mexoflottes)....I suppose these will be compatible with Endurance somehow even though it's suppose to be designed by army engineers.
Edit: I think the bow ramp is more for RO/RO purposes only. -
I do not believe the Leo2s or any other MBTs would roll off into a beach like that. If the 60ton monstrosity really sinks, its gonna be hell to recover it.
Already the MBT nay-sayers are questioning whether the MBT would survive in the local mud, and we want to try putting it the water with all the easy sand?
If the MBTs do come in from the LSTs, its gonna be sent int on barges or at least unloaded to a temporary pontoon pier. -
E Leopard 2A4 can ford up 2 4M with snorkel
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Originally posted by spartan6:E Leopard 2A4 can ford up 2 4M with snorkel
Originally posted by Shotgun
I think what Shotgun is refering to is the soft sea sand at beaches. Yes, the Leo2A4 can ford up to 4m with snorkel but that also have to depend on the hardness of the sea bed. If it is too soft the heavy MBT will still sink, with snorkel and all.
I do not believe the Leo2s or any other MBTs would roll off into a beach like that. If the 60ton monstrosity really sinks, its gonna be hell to recover it.
Already the MBT nay-sayers are questioning whether the MBT would survive in the local mud, and we want to try putting it the water with all the easy sand?
If the MBTs do come in from the LSTs, its gonna be sent int on barges or at least unloaded to a temporary pontoon pier. -
Hmm, it will be a most innovative arrangement indeed. So IF it indeed beaches...how will it pull itself out? I have not seen any stern anchor and the like. Very interesting.Originally posted by siaokao:When they call them LSTs.. rest be assured the ramp is for landing, just like any LSTs. Exactly how? War time u'll find out.
Edit: Just to add, from my understanding beaching is a rather difficult task and needs constant practise to perfect. Wonder how it's done now? -
Beach during low tide and pull out when the tide comes in. Amphibious landings requires meticulous planning.Originally posted by Fairyland:Hmm, it will be a most innovative arrangement indeed. So IF it indeed beaches...how will it pull itself out? I have not seen any stern anchor and the like. Very interesting.
Edit: Just to add, from my understanding beaching is a rather difficult task and needs constant practise to perfect. Wonder how it's done now?