RSAF F4 Phantoms in ROC?
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Originally posted by Lonewolf
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5604&page=4
Like I said I have no hard evidence about the merkava's but I'm hearing from the tankees about the simulator training they had and how hush hush it is, Spore is famous for keeping things hush hush eg our Special Operations force ( spore SEAL equvelant ) has been around since the late 70's but was only public knowledge in 2000. not to mention the Centurions ( they use to transport them in the middle of the night) or even the phantoms fighter bombers based in ROC was all hush hush, oops i think the phantoms still is.
As for the terrain in Malaysia ( intended place of ops for saf armoured Battle groups) It will either be very dusty with soft soil ( dry season ) or very soft and muddy ( wet season ) or metal roads ( rural ), aka something like rural palistine only theirs is much more dry and dusty. We hardly ever train for urban warfare which will be the case if we were intended to fight in Spore.
SAF main armoured doctrine is tanks with heavy infantry support in assault or the AI ( armoured infantry ) flanking while the big guns keep the bad boys occupied, which the merkava is ideal for with its space for troops ( isrealy/ panzergranadier style ) , hence we do not even have reactive armour due to the proximity of our troops to the tanks.
as for Price $$, We are ( fact not boasting) only asean country with apache's, stealth cruisers, largest army, navy, airforce, SGD is also the strongest currensie. so spending $$ for Merkava's is not that far fetch.
The above is being posted by a Singaporean in Defence Talk.com
He mentioned about the F4s kept in ROC. Can anyone verfiy this or heard of such rumours? Thanks
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Phantoms in ROC? That's news to me.
In any case, they're pretty old fighters... even if you zhng them up, there's a limit to what they can do. -
Glad you didn't tambah satu here.Originally posted by fudgester:Phantoms in ROC? That's news to me.
In any case, they're pretty old fighters... even if you zhng them up, there's a limit to what they can do.
That guy claimed that it is there during the 70s-80s period much like the case of the Tempests. Of course i have no way to confirm he existence of the Phantoms. -
In another webby I found, it stated clearly that RSAF operates a SQN of F18.
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Arh....more revelations!
So are they just rumours or facts? -
wah..very soon there will be talk that we own a squadron of F117s...and an aircraft carrier...
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Now F18 Hornets and F117 NightHawks are in the picture, what's next? Global Hawks and Predators UCAVs?
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Unless this is a super top secret sales. I thought the circulation of US built weaponry have to be approved by Congress first?
This regardless whether the weapon in question is purchased 1st/2nd hand.
Anyone knows when this F4 exchange happen? -
Thought the F4s Phantoms in ROC are belonging to the ROC Air Force?Originally posted by Ponders:Unless this is a super top secret sales. I thought the circulation of US built weaponry have to be approved by Congress first?
This regardless whether the weapon in question is purchased 1st/2nd hand.
Anyone knows when this F4 exchange happen? -
i have a very old world fighters book..(not sure if u recall those slim books with hardcovers), they mentioned one of the user for F4s is singapore but only in contract terms.
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I don't think the ROCs themselves have phantoms, do they ? ...
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ROC do not operates F4 Phantom at all.
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Hope you will be kind enough to scan the page for us here. And anyone care to explain about the contract terms part, please. ThanksOriginally posted by tek_koh:i have a very old world fighters book..(not sure if u recall those slim books with hardcovers), they mentioned one of the user for F4s is singapore but only in contract terms. -
sorry my bad..
the books says Users:....Singapore(no contract annonuced)..
so...hmm
well btw the book was publish in 1980 -
the official bk never stated we operate F-4...dont believe what internet says most of the time......
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That is impossible. I think they are just rumours.
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I think Japan is one of the Nations with F-4 Phantoms is Active Service....
Normally used in a Role As Wild Weasels Or SEAD Weapons Loadout...
(Suppression Of Enemy Air Defences) -
Phantoms would have been too sensitive for both Taiwan and SG to operate in the early 80s.
But if they were owned and leased for training, by a third country, it could be possible. -
Maybe its A4 Skyhawk and not F4 ... think US already retired most of them... most of the aircraft in our asset are better than F 4... our F16 D b52 are far superior than F4 in the wild weasel role
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Prior to ordering the F-16/79 RSAF did in fact evaluate F4 Phantom. I don't think F4 was officially purchased, perhaps leased for eval purposes. They would have longed been returned to US.
Of course, the F-16/79 order was later changed to F-16 Blk 15 after Thailand obtained approval for the full fledge F-16 rather than a watered down version.
The rest is history. -
Actually, its was more like a restriction placed on US Arms and equipment sales. They were not allowed to sell weapons and systems "currently" being used by the US Forces. So initially it was a no-sell. The compromise came when the USAF figured they needed to reduce the cost of the F-16, and managed to do some arm pulling to allow the F-16 to be sold at a "reduced" capability. That is, using the F-4's J79 engines.Originally posted by Joe Black:Prior to ordering the F-16/79 RSAF did in fact evaluate F4 Phantom. I don't think F4 was officially purchased, perhaps leased for eval purposes. They would have longed been returned to US.
Of course, the F-16/79 order was later changed to F-16 Blk 15 after Thailand obtained approval for the full fledge F-16 rather than a watered down version.
The rest is history.
A change in the administration saw a lift of that restriction, and a full capability F-16A was allowed to be sold to friendly countries. That blew out whatever hope any competitor had of selling their aircraft to forum buyers. (Namely, the F-20, to be sold as the F-5G) -
Quite impossible to believe that we cud possibly have Phantoms. US arms purchases, whether directly or indirectly can never be kept secret.
In any case, Phantoms are irrelevant when we have the F 15 SGs -
I agree, its not easy to keep any foreign military sales in US a secret.Originally posted by glock:Quite impossible to believe that we cud possibly have Phantoms. US arms purchases, whether directly or indirectly can never be kept secret.
In any case, Phantoms are irrelevant when we have the F 15 SGs -
I doubt that the RSAF really ever operated the Phantoms.
Probably loaned and leased from the USAF.
That aircraft has too awesome a reputation to be kept a secret. Phantoms - "Worlds leading distributor of MiG parts." -
If I remember correctly, RSAF was evaluating 2nd hand F-4 Phantom F-4S (ex USN variant) in the early 80s instead of the F-4E used by the USAF. I think brand new F-4E would still be quite expensive and there were plenty of ex-USN F-4 on sales. The F-4 production would have ceased or stopping.
It wouldn't have made sense to purchase F-4 anyway in the 80s. Big plane that required an WSO wasn't quite what RSAF was prepared for. F-5 was still the mainstay of the force.
F-16 proved to be the right decision. I'm not sure if I can say about F-15SG. Only time will tell. I would have loved to see Rafale in RSAF colours. If not the Rafale, then perhaps even Typhoon or F-18E/F.