Singapore to Acquire Refurbished Leopard Tanks
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when you're paying in palm oil ... the exchange rate is not dollar for dollar mah ...Originally posted by LazerLordz:I'd say someone got themselves fleeced.
They're just uprated T-72s, IIRC.
300M for 48? Not a good deal considering that the going rate for a Leopard is approx. 3M per piece. -
"Experts" say that the Leo2A4 are too heavy and "clumsy" than the twardys to be used in the SEA terrain especially in forests and plantations areas, so what's the take of our mil nuts here?
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I think they will be used in conjunction with the new light tanksOriginally posted by orionlight:"Experts" say that the Leo2A4 are too heavy and "clumsy" than the twardys to be used in the SEA terrain especially in forests and plantations areas, so what's the take of our mil nuts here?
In any way, the common knowledge in the tankee world is that tanks, no matter what, cant go everywhere and anywhere.
Btw, Leo2 exerts lower ground pressure than our SM1..?
0.83 kg/cm2 vs 0.88 kg/cm2 -
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They are having a loser mentality here.Originally posted by orionlight:"Experts" say that the Leo2A4 are too heavy and "clumsy" than the twardys to be used in the SEA terrain especially in forests and plantations areas, so what's the take of our mil nuts here?
When they discuss about the Singapore Leopard tank, they are picturing the Singapore Leopards to be operating in MALAYSIA Johor palm oil land!!!??? -
PT-91 is the upgraded version of T-72M1( monkey model), the same infamous turret popping tank of GW1 !!!!!
The Poles were retiring some of them for Leo 2A4, so you can imagine how "good" they view their own tank!!!!
As I said in another forum, SAF is always want to maintain the same superiority over MAF, so if MY want to have an arms race with SG, MY always lose as long as SG is richer than MY!!!!
Why??
Becos we are kiasu, they can kpkb all they want , at the end of day , they still lose!!!! -
wah ! ... bro, you the best ! ...Originally posted by zhaozhilong:They are having a loser mentality here.
When they discuss about the Singapore Leopard tank, they are picturing the Singapore Leopards to be operating in MALAYSIA Johor palm oil land!!!???
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I can forsee our CMWs sweating like bricks when it's time to dismantle the turrets. Now, I wonder if the choice to limit recruitment for turret specialists was a right one.. hmm.Originally posted by papabear20046: -
ok let's stop the mud slinging here lah, don't sink to the same level as them.
Another question, is our A4 "River crossing ready", meaning it can cross a river organically without the help of floatation screens?? -
Isn't it like pretty dangerous if we keep laughing at our neighbour's tanks? I know everybody is happy about the Leopards but I feel it would be pretty disadvantageous if we get complacent about our neighbour's capabilities. Rejoice about the Leopards but still keep a wary respect for our neighbour's hardware.
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of course ...Originally posted by fallin:Isn't it like pretty dangerous if we keep laughing at our neighbour's tanks? I know everybody is happy about the Leopards but I feel it would be pretty disadvantageous if we get complacent about our neighbour's capabilities. Rejoice about the Leopards but still keep a wary respect for our neighbour's hardware.
but it feels good to scratch our own balls every now and then, no ? ... -
Why keep comparing the leopards and the T91s?
There is a reason why we brought back the apaches early..
before they can even hear the rumbling of the leopards..
they wont even know what took them out.. -
What else do you think it is for?Originally posted by zhaozhilong:They are having a loser mentality here.
When they discuss about the Singapore Leopard tank, they are picturing the Singapore Leopards to be operating in MALAYSIA Johor palm oil land!!!???
National Day Parade?
IMHO, I would plan to operate it from the equator, in the states above the state of Malacca. -
In the age of every improving capabilities of ATGM and others, the vertical sided LEO is a cause for worry.
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there's no such thing as an invulnerable tank .... all you need is a big enough warhead ....Originally posted by touchstone_2000:In the age of every improving capabilities of ATGM and others, the vertical sided LEO is a cause for worry.
so ... you drill and exercise .... and perfect your tactics .... -
+1.Originally posted by touchstone_2000:In the age of every improving capabilities of ATGM and others, the vertical sided LEO is a cause for worry.
Its bigger and higher than the 91...
its like a wall for you to aim at... -
In my opinion, an excellent choice to get Leopard A4s althought they are not the latest variant. Good value for what I think shud be comparatively bargain prices for very good surplus equipment which can be easily upgradable.
I also think that the Leopards are Tempest replacements - note the minister's remark that the Leopards will replace "some" SM1s.
I guess the real SM1 replacements will come in a few years time - probably Bionix or similar chassis with new turrets with 105 mm gun if not 120 mm ( in my opinion, shud stick to max 105 mm for light tank ). A hi / lo mix of MBTs and light tanks is perfect.
Leopard A4s will have to be tropicalized. Also, some upgrades are in order - new generation hunter / killer thermal sights, local BMS, upgraded fire controls, add on armor, latest 120 mm ammo.
And most importantly selecting best crews for realistic training. I guess the tanks will end up in Shoalwater Bay in Australia. They shud also train with the Australian M1As to see how our Leopard crews match up to the Australians in their M1As. -
Now...now...let us be sensitive to the feelings of our neighbours shall we? Pls don't rub it in any further....Originally posted by ^Delta^:I posted the Polish pic of their Leopard 2 with an agenda 
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Yes, I know what you mean. If Mother Nature gives an advantage, don't see why we shouldn't take advantage of it.Originally posted by Fatum:there's no such thing as an invulnerable tank .... all you need is a big enough warhead ....
so ... you drill and exercise .... and perfect your tactics ....
Sloping glacis plates causes APDFDS rounds to bounce.
Knowing ST, there may be something in the works. -
Almost A5/A6 standard!!!!!Originally posted by glock:In my opinion, an excellent choice to get Leopard A4s althought they are not the latest variant. Good value for what I think shud be comparatively bargain prices for very good surplus equipment which can be easily upgradable.
I also think that the Leopards are Tempest replacements - note the minister's remark that the Leopards will replace "some" SM1s.
I guess the real SM1 replacements will come in a few years time - probably Bionix or similar chassis with new turrets with 105 mm gun if not 120 mm ( in my opinion, shud stick to max 105 mm for light tank ). A hi / lo mix of MBTs and light tanks is perfect.
Leopard A4s will have to be tropicalized. Also, some upgrades are in order - new generation hunter / killer thermal sights, local BMS, upgraded fire controls, add on armor, latest 120 mm ammo.
And most importantly selecting best crews for realistic training. I guess the tanks will end up in Shoalwater Bay in Australia. They shud also train with the Australian M1As to see how our Leopard crews match up to the Australians in their M1As.
Well, not you're not far off as Teo CH said:When the Leopard enters service, the local defence industry will also be involved in the Leopard's development.
"They have to maintain it for us. We'll be bringing in some of the facilities that we've developed like the Battle Management System, and as we go along, other types of systems as well, to upgrade the tank for our purposes," said Mr Teo............. -
I agree with some soying that the 2A4s will e backed up by some light tank with an IFV body.
Perhaps the bionix chassis with a 105mm cannon or something similar.
IF you take a look at the swedish..
They tried designing a number of tanks that could suit well in their forested areas..
However, they are now back to the leopard 2A4 and 2(S) MBTs.
This are then backed up by they CV-90 IFVs with a 40mm bofors cannon.
Though they are not using it, there is a variant of the CV 90 with a 105mm smoothbore gun.
So, if the swedes see no need for a light tank.. do we need one? is it feasible? -
I'm thinking more peacekeeping missions that might require a bit of punch in this region. Hopefully they can come up with a PSO kit.Originally posted by touchstone_2000:What else do you think it is for?
National Day Parade?
IMHO, I would plan to operate it from the equator, in the states above the state of Malacca. -
They said this is a replacement for the SM1 ...
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They also used to say that the next tank will be missiles only, and that we only have SM1 tanks.Originally posted by LRRP:They said this is a replacement for the SM1 ... -
I have to disagree mildly. I believe the light AFV main body is to be backed up by the Leopard2s, not the other way round.Originally posted by Pitot:I agree with some soying that the 2A4s will e backed up by some light tank with an IFV body.
Perhaps the bionix chassis with a 105mm cannon or something similar.
IF you take a look at the swedish..
They tried designing a number of tanks that could suit well in their forested areas..
However, they are now back to the leopard 2A4 and 2(S) MBTs.
This are then backed up by they CV-90 IFVs with a 40mm bofors cannon.
Though they are not using it, there is a variant of the CV 90 with a 105mm smoothbore gun.
So, if the swedes see no need for a light tank.. do we need one? is it feasible?
Some crucial updates I believe should be made available to the Leopard 2A4.
-CITV "Commander's Independent Thermal Viewer" with turret override option. Allows the tank commander to acquire seperate targets while gunner is engaging and if necessary, override the turret for higher priority targets.
-BMS, when fully operational that is.
-Remote overhead TC's machine gun. Allows the Tank Commander to fire his MG without going hatch out via CITV.
Btw, IIRC, the sloped armor of the A5/A6 is the "spaced" armor component of the turret's protection.
As for the M'sians.... lets keep things friendly lar. PT-91s are relatively low-cost MBTs to operate. However, i feel that they should have gone with the T-80Us from Ukraine... =)