Singapore to Acquire Refurbished Leopard Tanks
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below is a link to a very informative discussion on the various tanks in the world.
leopard, M1 , merkava..
got a former M1 tankee..
of course he defended his ride..
no doubt on a aviation webby.. but nice read.
http://www.airliners.net/discussions/non_aviation/read.main/1319303/?searchid=1319303&s=Tank%2Bbest#ID1319303 -
Say before liao... Russian 125mm barrels are too long. They don't traverse well in plantations and built up areas. I dare speculate that the Leo2A6's was not selected due to its L55 high velocity gun as well. Too long.Originally posted by zenden9:Russian one is more compact,lighter. Mening cheaper to maintain and able to acquire in larger number.They try to have a powerful gun to ensure a first hit probabilites.... The mobilities of Russian tank is also better.
Also, I'd place my money on German Diesel engines for serviceability and reliability over russian ones. Think about, Germans got Mercedez, BMW... what does the Russians have?
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dun forget how the russian calvary rolled all the way into berlin leh..Originally posted by Shotgun:Say before liao... Russian 125mm barrels are too long. They don't traverse well in plantations and built up areas. I dare speculate that the Leo2A6's was not selected due to its L55 high velocity gun as well. Too long.
Also, I'd place my money on German Diesel engines for serviceability and reliability over russian ones. Think about, Germans got Mercedez, BMW... what does the Russians have? 
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Any reason other than cost why the A4 was chosen instead of the A6?
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Because A4 is surplus from the German army so no need to wait for them to produce, can get them off the shelf. But as usual SAF is not satisied with what they have so decide to upgrade them, possibily to A6 standard. Therefore save both time and money.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Any reason other than cost why the A4 was chosen instead of the A6? -
Cheaper I guess? And its refurbished making it even cheaper. Considering we already have ties with France, I half expected AMX-30s or Le Clercs. Leopard's ok but I'd rather brand new A6 rather than refurbed A4.Originally posted by Obersturmfuhrer:Any reason other than cost why the A4 was chosen instead of the A6?
I'm sure we can afford since its only 60 MBTs not 350. They're still keeping most of the SM1s apparently. -
I was thinking, to this day, after the first Soviet T-72 with autoloader concept came abt, why do some tank producing nations still stick with human load. Considering a typical tank Vs. tank, Leo2 vs T series, if the Leo2 missed, won't it be in a very dangerous position, compared to the T-series missing? Does it mean we are still sticking to the ambush style of fight for armour?
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Hmm, in tank battle nowadays you at most get only one shot if both tanks are already engaging each other. An autoloader might not be as great an advantage as you think. The Fire Control System, the ability to shoot further and on the move are things that western tanks tend to do better.Originally posted by equlus84:I was thinking, to this day, after the first Soviet T-72 with autoloader concept came abt, why do some tank producing nations still stick with human load. Considering a typical tank Vs. tank, Leo2 vs T series, if the Leo2 missed, won't it be in a very dangerous position, compared to the T-series missing? Does it mean we are still sticking to the ambush style of fight for armour?
Also an autoloader is a complex piece of equipment can jam and break down (and if it does jam the tank is all but useless until it is fixed). A 19-year old with a strong arm is a lot smarter, is an extra set of eyes and ears if needed, and can help pull through the gun barrel. Also in war, I suspect 19-year olds might be (to be a bit cold blooded) easier to replace then an autoloader. So it's pros and cons. They did consider using autoloading designs when making the M1 and Leo2, but rejected that for the said reasons.
The armour protection of the Leo2A4 is not superior to that of the later M1 series AFAIK, given the yanks were nutty enough to use DU in their armour when considering KE protection. But I think it's more or less up there lah. In terms of protection the two tanks are roughly equal, but I suspect the fuel efficency issue is certainly a big factor in why we chose the Leo2, if the M1 was even a consideration to begin with. The Leo2A4 fleet might also be easier to "reverse engineer" I suspect, if we ever decide to make our own upgrades.
Somebody said the Leo2a4 used space armour, I don't think this is true. All the stuff I read so far seems to indicated this is composite. A better example of a spaced armour concept would be in the Merky series of tanks.
And to correct the impression that M1s are getting pwned- the M1s are doing very well in Iraq, once you realize that the M1s actually destroyed were done in by "suck-thumb" IEDs that no MBT in the world can survive. The tanks actually soaked up a large number of IED attacks that would have totally wiped out other smaller units, and this M1 tankie actually showed pictures of post-IEDed M1s which survived the attacks. You don't want to be in any other thing in Iraq (except maybe Merky).
But anyway, great news! -
Factsheet: Capabilities and Specifications of the Leopard 2A4
serach Leopard 2A4 by Images in Yahoo lahpecifications of the Leopard 2A4 and SM1 Tanks
Description
Leopard 2A4........................SM1
Technical Data
Crew.......4..........................3
Combat Weight...55.15 ton....17.2 ton
Ground Pressure 0.83 kg/cm2.....0.88 kg/cm2
Ground Clearance....0.537 m....0.43 m
Dimensions
(L x W x H).....9.668 x 3.7 x 2.79m......6.36 x 2.51 x 2.62 m
Main Armament.....120mm smoothbore, L44....75mm, M50 Gun
Other Armament 1 x 7.62 mm coaxial MG..1 x 7.62 mm coaxial
1 x 7.62 mm anti-aircraft MG...........1 x 7.62 mm CMG
8 x 76 mm smoke launcher per side........4 x 81 mm smoke launcher
Fire Control System With stabilisation, thermal imager Non stabilised, image intensifier
Engine MTU MB 873 Ka-501 diesel engine Detroit Diesel 6V52T
Power 1500 hp 290 hp
Transmission Renk HSWL 354 hydrokinetic transmission ZF 5WG 180, Automatic
Performance Specifications
Power-to-weight 27.2 hp/ton 16.86 hp/ton
Max road speed 72 km/h 60 km/h
Max road range 550 km 450 - 500 km
Vertical Obstacle 1.1 m 0.65 m
Trench Clearance 3 m 1.6 m
Gradient 60% 60%
Side Slope 30% 40% -
It is also e world fastest tank
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120mm refers to the diameter of the tank round! Haha can you imagine a tank round only the size of your ruler?Originally posted by fallin:I have two questions. Firstly, I know this is a noob question but 120mm refers to the length or diameter of the tank round? Secondly, although I have absolutely doubt regarding the choice of tank, would the number be sufficient for our needs?
Thus a 120mm tank round is 12cm wide and depending on version, 72cm to slightly over a metre in length.
This is just a first batch to replace some of our AMX-13SM1s. And this could just be an stopgap solution pending the delivery of even more advanced AFVs. Nevertheless the Leopard 2A4 is a mean beast to face in combat. This is a great day for our army. -
not a great day for tax payers thoughOriginally posted by ^Delta^:120mm refers to the diameter of the tank round! Haha can you imagine a tank round only the size of your ruler? Thus a 120mm tank round is 12cm wide and depending on version, 72cm to slightly over a metre in length.
This is just a first batch to replace some of our AMX-13SM1s. And this could just be an stopgap solution pending the delivery of even more advanced AFVs. Nevertheless the Leopard 2A4 is a mean beast to face in combat. This is a great day for our army. -
Think of it as only paying $10-$20 per person for having 55 ton steel beasts guard ur family and possessions, and letting certain countries think twice before shooting their mouths offOriginally posted by relackjack:not a great day for tax payers though
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Think Singapore bought the Leopard 2A4...Because of it's Good Cross Country Ability...Simple Maintainability....Internal GPS system... Wooo Lots more...
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Certainly better then all the cash we've paid spent that Frenchie SM-piece-o-junk around!
Be interested to see what our malaysian counterparts have to say about this, given some of the more militant ones had been infected with a case of our best MBT-fever. I suspect the SAF tends to delay purchases until sure of what the others might be buying..
And another thing, I think armour exercises with the aussies are going to be more fun, given they also use Leo2A4s... -
1)Fastest tank in e world
2)Same firepower as e M1A2
3)More fuel efficent then e M1A2
4)Less heavily armoured then e M1A2 but there nothing perfect in e world
5)Cleaper
Wat else can we ask for....................except for A5/6 -
Russian calvary? U mean their T-34s and JS3s? Don't forget how they got chewed up as well. =)Originally posted by Pitot:dun forget how the russian calvary rolled all the way into berlin leh..
And Yes, I totally agree that the M1s are NOT getting pwned in Iraq. They are really soaking a lot of damage that would have killed the bradleys and the soldiers in them. -
la la la la doo di doo di doo
I cant wait 2 see my favorite tank at NDP -
The Australians use the Leopard 1 which is a less capable tank than our Leopard 2A4. Their days are numbered as the M1A1s enter service. But still an interesting scenerio to see 2 kinds of world class tanks in a live firing exercise together.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Certainly better then all the cash we've paid spent that Frenchie SM-piece-o-junk around!
Be interested to see what our malaysian counterparts have to say about this.
And another thing, I think armour exercises with the aussies are going to be more fun, given they also use Leo2A4s... -
I believe we got them at real friendship price , perhaps only paying for refurbishmnet and transport.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Certainly better then all the cash we've paid spent that Frenchie SM-piece-o-junk around! -
I am both surprised and happy we are getting the Leopard 2A4.
Though I keep harping that we should be getting MBT's, I never seriously thought about WHICH MBT was my fave. But it seems most here - like me - have no complaints that they are merely "refurbished" (nice way of saying second-hand
) Leopard 2A4's.
I do think very highly of this tank. It will be a good match for the MAF PT-91, right?
The last weak link in our mighty armed force is finally fixed.
We finally have modern MBTs. If I'm not wrong, we are the only one in Asia with the Leopard 2A4.
Damn they took so friggin' long to arrive at the decision.
HOORAY FOR SAF LEOPARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I think there's one more weak link:Originally posted by moca:The last weak link in our mighty armed force is finally fixed.
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Our totally outdated light tanks.
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Aye, I checked again and realized I misread "Austria" for "Australia"Originally posted by ^Delta^:The Australians use the Leopard 1 which is a less capable tank than our Leopard 2A4. Their days are numbered as the M1A1s enter service. But still an interesting scenerio to see 2 kinds of world class tanks in a live firing exercise together. 
But the aussies did mess about with the Leo2 when they were looking for a replacement for the Leo1, and I think it is a natural choice. -
Originally posted by ^Delta^:
you mean the Leo2 are replacements for the SM1?
120mm refers to the diameter of the tank round! Haha can you imagine a tank round only the size of your ruler? Thus a 120mm tank round is 12cm wide and depending on version, 72cm to slightly over a metre in length.
This is just a first batch to replace some of our AMX-13SM1s. And this could just be an stopgap solution pending the delivery of even more advanced AFVs. Nevertheless the Leopard 2A4 is a mean beast to face in combat. This is a great day for our army.
guess our northern neighbour gonna react with some attack helio purchase? just like what we did when they purchased PT91 - bring back our apaches.
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Originally posted by ah_kwang:
SM1 has its own replacement in the future. For now , the Leos will take their spot.
you mean the Leo2 are replacements for the SM1?
guess our northern neighbour gonna react with some attack helio purchase? just like what we did when they purchased PT91 - bring back our apaches. [/b]
