Singapore to Acquire Refurbished Leopard Tanks
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Don't forget the armour upgrade to the M1A1 series to make to stand up better to KE attacks, and it spun off a variant called M1A1 HA (Heavy Armour) which eventually became the standard for the M1 series.
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The Leo's coax MG uses NATO 7.62mm rounds. which should be compatible to our GPMG ammo.Originally posted by SpecOps87:Just curious, does having Leo 2 mean that we will have to expand our inventory to incl. 120mm ammo? Also the 7.62 cal co-axial MG and the .50cal. MG on the tanks, are they going to be refitted to the FN MAG GPMG and CIS.50 which is currently in service or remain as the original?
Also what is the difference between the M1A1 and M1A2 Abrams? Also read that S.Korea has a similar M1 version which they DIY nicked "Baby Abrams" or something like that. Does the S.Korean version uses the gas turbine as well? Am quite surprised when some posted that it takes 40L to get the turbine started and at idle it consumes the same amount as when moving full speed ahead.
the German's Leo has a MG3 MG on top of the turret beside either the commander's or loader's cupploa... they don't use a 0.5' HMG. -
Independent commander sight is a pretty new innovation. Actually, it is mroe suited when you hae multiple targets. the commander can acquire a new target while the gunner is killing the current one....Originally posted by Joe Black:I think this thread is going off tangent.... here is more digression:
I was reading how ADF only purchased M1A1 AIM(D) tanks. Boy oh boy, that doesn't even have an independent Commander sight to perform a hunter-killer mode. How I wish ADF will buy additional M1A2 SEP tanks, and later upgrade all the AIM (D) tanks to A2 SEP.
As for the SAF Leo2A4 purchase, I hope SAF actually end up having a localised A5 (after upgrading the A4 with the A5 uparmoured turret, independent Command Thermal sight, the local BMS, and perhaps even the Trophy APS).
I don't think Australia will really need this. I can't imagine them facing multiple armoured targets anytime soon.... -
Leopard tank should better be a psychological warfare
It is a failure for sg war planner if Loe has to fight direct
with other tanks.Enemy tanks should ideally be taken out by
Apache,ground attack plans,etc. well in advance
Leo should just act as a psychological comfort for front
lines SAF and to people back at home.
Also,sg signal to potential enemy she is damn serious
for her defense. -
Originally posted by lionnoisy:
That would be hard to acomplish, as much as it is ideal to knock out as much enemy armour as possible before going MBT on MBT. If you are talking about ground attack to destroy enemy armour, it would be silly not send it our most capable anti-armour unit to do the job. Airpower can't cover it all of the time.
[b]Leopard tank should better be a psychological warfare
It is a failure for sg war planner if Loe has to fight direct
with other tanks.Enemy tanks should ideally be taken out by
Apache,ground attack plans,etc. well in advance
Leo should just act as a psychological comfort for front
lines SAF and to people back at home.
Also,sg signal to potential enemy she is damn serious
for her defense.[/b]
Actually hor, I don't see why the Leo2 should not be used to engage enemy armour, it's just one of it's jobs and it can do it well if need be. Very likely it will have to fight enemy armour as part of its mission. -
It is not surprising to put Leopards in Australia. We do not have the training ground for MBTs in Sg. We can also pit our tankees against the Australian M1s. That will be good experince.
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
from the second website, this thing look like our Terrex
[b]Leo site ,much info--http://fprado.com/armorsite/leo2.htm
the manufactuer--http://www.kmweg.de/index.php[/b]
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did they bribed the official.....
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I just came across this Leo2A5 video. I am now wondering if buying A4 was a smart move. Should have asked for A5 instead. See the movie here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JxuUbcaQHQ -
Of course, if we can have the A5 / 6, it would have been better than the A4.
However, the cost wud probably have been too prohibitive for the almost 100 tanks that we intend to get.
Also I believe that with the inevitable upgrades to be made to the A4, we will get something close to A5 standard but at a very much lower cost than brand new A5/6s. Overall, we will shud finally have a sizable number of upgraded & very capable Leo2s. This will still be a quantum leap from what we currently have in the form of the Tempests.
We shud always try to get the best possible technology, but we must also weigh the cost effectiveness. Also, one must not only look at the technology. Equally important ( if not more ) are the men who will eventually operate our Leo2s. History always repeats itself - the man behind the machine counts for a lot more than the machine. We shud ask what the SAF is going to do to ensure that we will have the region's most competent / skilled / motivated tankees in our Leo2s. -
how much is the life time amintenance and repair cost for MBT?
I think it is 2 times of the purchase price.
If one MBT cost US$5m,then we have to add US$10m
for their life time expenses.Pl correct me. -
how do we launch our MBT when most of them are oversea ... our LST can only take a limited nos of them ... shipping them abroad take time also say from ROC at least a week bah
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At the moment should just be using our LSTs. However, the LSTs may be enlarged by ST Marine (i guess by hull section insertion method) to accomodate more MBTs. There is also talk of getting C-17 where they can also transport MBT.Originally posted by seancannot:how do we launch our MBT when most of them are oversea ... our LST can only take a limited nos of them ... shipping them abroad take time also say from ROC at least a week bah
All this is of course taking consideration that we have a need to deploy our MBTs overseas other than for training. This is possible as Singapore will most likely increase its commitments to Peace-keeping missions.
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sg plans well ahead for access of MBT with combat bridge MLC 60 already
in place.There are 4 ways to let Leo MBT across rivers!!
1.Vehicle Launched Bridge (VLB)---The VLB is operated by a 2-men crew and is able to launch or retrieve its bridge within 10 mins.
Effective Span of Bridge - 25m.To launch or retrieve its bridge within 10 mins!!
2.Foldable Longspan Bridge (FLB)
can bridge gap of 45m wide within 3 hours.
3. * Bridging Engineer Equipment
------------- - Comet
------------- - Almond
The ALMOND is mounted on 7-tonne trucks. With concerted efforts from the tugboats....
The COMET provides an expedient rafting and float bridging means......
4.SAF Weapons and Equipments -
The Almond is in need of replacement already man. I heard they got a new generation of Comet also right?
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How many of our tanks are overseas?Originally posted by seancannot:how do we launch our MBT when most of them are oversea ... our LST can only take a limited nos of them ... shipping them abroad take time also say from ROC at least a week bah
I doubt the number is significant.
If we have 100 Tempest, I'm sure at least half of them are kept in Singapore. I can't imagine any training excercise where they need all 100 Tempests to participate.
Same with all the other equipment. I'm sure more than half of our AMX-13SM1 are in storage in SG.
Same with infantry small arms. I think we have enough training weapons in each country like Taiwan, Thailand, Brunei to equip one or two brigade-sized infantry units at most. The rest are in prime condition storage in Singapore - apparently enough to equip every single NSF and NSmen (and his dog) upon general mob.
Wah, if you do the maths, that's a lot of small arms... -
i think u are overestimating the capability of singapore.
that is ALOT of arms that u are talking about. where can we store so much equipment? -
Perhaps you are OVERESTIMATING the space needed to put in storage a few hundred or even a few thousand AFVs in Singapore.Originally posted by beavan:i think u are overestimating the capability of singapore.
that is ALOT of arms that u are talking about. where can we store so much equipment?
Let me ask yo a simple question: How many buses do you think SBS has? A hundred? A thousand? At night when they are not on the road, they are in storage at the depots right?
A bus is usually bigger than most AFVs. So if SBS can park a thousand buses, I'm sure our mighty SAF can store a few thousand AFVs no problem. -
double post
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this essay says JDW 20.12.2006 reported on the sale
http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn/2007-01-04/1715424606.html
2.Tanks will be delivered before 2008.
3.pl post JDW essay here . -
Very good reasoning. Just what I was trying to drive into the minds of many new recruits in BMTC during a General Military Knowledge (GMK) lesson, when they expressed shockOriginally posted by moca:Perhaps you are OVERESTIMATING the space needed to put in storage a few hundred or even a few thousand AFVs in Singapore.
Let me ask yo a simple question: How many buses do you think SBS has? A hundred? A thousand? At night when they are not on the road, they are in storage at the depots right?
A bus is usually bigger than most AFVs. So if SBS can park a thousand buses, I'm sure our mighty SAF can store a few thousand AFVs no problem.
, confusion 
and utter amazement 
at our inventory of AFVs being one of the largest in South East Asia. I think they have been brought up with the notion that we have around 20 tanks and a few hundred troops 
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Originally posted by lionnoisy:
This article is full of mistakes,
[b]this essay says JDW 20.12.2006 reported on the sale
http://jczs.news.sina.com.cn/2007-01-04/1715424606.html
2.Tanks will be delivered before 2008.
3.pl post JDW essay here .[/b]
105mm main gun? ERA ? -
Some recruits have this notion that the SAF is made up of Infantry and SISPEC/OCS.Originally posted by ^Delta^:Very good reasoning. Just what I was trying to drive into the minds of many new recruits in BMTC during a General Military Knowledge (GMK) lesson, when they expressed shock , confusion and utter amazement at our inventory of AFVs being one of the largest in South East Asia. I think they have been brought up with the notion that we have around 20 tanks and a few hundred troops
When me and my section mate were doing our evening jogs and light workouts around Tekong in our 6DIV garrison polos(we were on recourse) , we were interrupted by whole sections/platoons "diam-ing" themselves and greeting us Sirs.
My friend was quite irritated when he was doing his chin-ups and the neighbouring coy kept coming up to him and greeting him. He stopped and told them he's just a LCP, then one of the recruits pointed to the 6DIV badge, and asked him if he's an officer.
